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Water Policy Reaches Boiling Pointpage  1 2 


Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

23 Mar 2017 20:06


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Written By Adam Dobbin
Trainer Dave Irwins staunch opposition to Greyhound Racing NSWs Race Day Water Policy spilled over at Maitland last Thursday afternoon with the leading conditioner failing to comply on the fifth occasion, with the matter now referred to stewards.

Mandatory since February 18, following a trial period where its use was discretionary, trainers must now provide between 250ml and 500ml of water for each greyhound kenneled at NSW race meetings.

Introduced by Greyhound Racing NSW, the purpose of the policy is to protect the health, comfort and safety of greyhounds with respect to their race day hydration, while ensuring the integrity of greyhound racing at the same time.

Currently, NSW is the only jurisdiction to adopt such a scheme.

For Warragai Creek trainer Irwin, regarded as one of the sports leading conditioners with a life-long involvement in the industry, he feels hes been left no choice other than to tackle the issue head-on, resolute in his quest to get what he believes to be the right outcome for participants.

Let me just say from the start Im all for everything we can do for animal welfare thats a given but this policy, if anything, is counter-productive, said Irwin earlier this week.

What we have here is a policy that hasnt been thought through its that simple.

When you have respected industry vets both locally and interstate prepared to put their grievances in writing that should be enough to say things arent perfect.

At the end of the day trainers are wholly responsible for the welfare of their greyhounds nutrition, hydration, temperature, health the list goes on. The onus is on the trainer to do the right thing by their greyhound the moment they step into their kennels the small time they are kenneled on race day shouldnt be any different its from one extreme to the next.

Ive forwarded documentation to GRNSW CEO John Gibbons and based on that information have asked him to reconsider GRNSWs position on the policy and place the responsibility back on the trainer, the way it should be.

My understanding is if there is data to support the policy the industry hasnt seen it. Since its implementation weve seen many greyhounds drop their performance. The idea of a greyhound to be racing sometimes within minutes of drinking up to half-a-litre of water is actually a hindrance to welfare not a help, not to mention a significant integrity issue.

From my own perspective my attitude to hydration particularly on race day is as meticulous as you can get to the minute almost. Travelling distance, weather conditions, mannerisms of the dog theres so many moving parts. The objective is to ensure the dog is happy and healthy but at the same time not racing sometimes over 700 metres with a stomach full of water thats not in the greyhounds best interests.

The Race Day Hydration Policy has received mixed reactions since its implementation.

In its current format, the policy makes no concession to whether the greyhounds a 22 kilo bitch or a 41 kilo dog.

Whether the greyhound is due to compete in race one or 12 sometimes a three hour disparity as to how much time will be spent in the kennels.

Whether the race meeting is at The Gardens on a Friday afternoon in the throes of summer or at Bathurst on a Monday in the middle of July where the temperature may see itself a few clicks above zero.

The industry continues to embrace change and performance should never be placed above welfare. Nor will it.

Elements of this policy has merit but the basic principle of the trainers obligation to exercise his or her discretion for whats best for that particular greyhound gets lost in all of this.

These offices received a call on Monday from a trainer engaged at Wentworth Park on Saturday night it was the first time the greyhound had raced since the Water Policy became mandatory.

After drinking every ounce of water the greyhound competed in an early race, performing well below par. Post-race the greyhound brought it all up hardly ideal.

But in the same conversation that same trainer said they had another greyhound that the policy may work well for in moderation.

There you go, discretion based on the greyhound and all the moving parts involved in forming a decision based on an intimate knowledge of the greyhound.

Trainers are licensed by GRNSW after becoming satisfied they will do their absolute best for the greyhounds in their care responsible for their ongoing welfare.

Trust may well be a great place to start.

Dave Irwin has asked any trainers that share his concerns on the policy to email him confidentially at [email protected]
PLEASE NOTE: If trainers wish to raise any concerns with the current policy, GRNSW encourage participants to email [email protected]

Here we go .....Please help SUPPORT Dave Irwin..

We have to stay together and help each other and my hat goes off to you Dave for standing your ground and for not accepting these new water rules ...
It is unsafe..

Safety hazard..

Contamination issues

Wet bedding ..

UNSAFE WORK ENVIRONMENT IF THE KENNEL FLOOR HAS WATER ALL OVER IT .

Biggest way to pull a greyhound up ...Fill it up with water ...

This was a old timer's trick when he trialed or qualied his hounds ....

If you allow a Greyhound to consume over 100 ml of water 15 min before its race then this will PULL A GREYHOUND up it will loose a couple of lengths and or can vomit soon after the run and can cause CRAMPING ...Lack of finish on power ...IMO



Terry Jordan
Australia
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Posts 6013
Dogs 0 / Races 0

24 Mar 2017 21:32


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Kevin: If this Policy (Water in Kennels)is so important, as to be Compulsory for all participants in NSW. Why isn't it a NATIONAL RULE
We Trainers know what's best for our dogs. So do the other States.
How long before Roo/Meat is banned to appease the Green's and Animal Lib's??


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 19486
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

24 Mar 2017 22:18


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Mail is that it's getting reviewed so that it will be optional

Stupid rule, vets can determine if a dog is hydrated or not, or in a fit condition to race, at kennelling time. That's what they are there for.

It's the trainers responsibility to present the dog ready for racing.


Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 684
Dogs 1 / Races 1

24 Mar 2017 22:24


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Sandro Bechini wrote:

Mail is that it's getting reviewed so that it will be optional

Stupid rule, vets can determine if a dog is hydrated or not, or in a fit condition to race, at kennelling time. That's what they are there for.

It's the trainers responsibility to present the dog ready for racing.

Stupid rule made by stupid people. SIMPLES!




Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

25 Mar 2017 03:15


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Terry Jordan wrote:

Kevin: If this Policy (Water in Kennels)is so important, as to be Compulsory for all participants in NSW. Why isn't it a NATIONAL RULE
We Trainers know what's best for our dogs. So do the other States.
How long before Roo/Meat is banned to appease the Green's and Animal Lib's??

I get a sense that the tide is turning for all participants....Terry... and we will win this fight because as we all know if we continue on with all of these stupid rulings we will be driven out of the sport we all love and many now understand and see what is really going on ..

Terry we just have keep going support those people who have been victimised and set up by the PTB ...

We are getting a response and it wont be long before the RACING minister will have to act ..

We have a united front by us the Members and we are ensuring we KEEP THE BASTARDS HONEST .....and Transparent .

We have a huge amount of cases involving Bullying tactics used today by the PTB and we all know that the Integrity and welfare Teams do in fact VIDEO AND RECORD COVERT SURVEILLANCE TEAMS WATCH YOUR EVERY MOVE without your permission .

The PTB are a law unto themselfs they make rules and then deliberately go out of there way to engage Members ..

We have a group of ex police who use Illegal surveillance and if we look at State and federal Law they break every rule there is and they use the words WE CAN DO THAT WE ARE THE PTB we can make any rules we want at any time is there catch CRY

The ptb Integrity team knew exactly what Charlie Wilson was doing they played along with him baiting him and they knew hidden camera's had been placed in so many Kennels but they did nothing about this WHY ..

WHAT AGENDA AND PLAN DID THEY REALLY HAVE ALL ALONG ...

THIS IS JUST A VERY SMALL PART of the overall scheme of things but it shows us some very important FACTS WE ALL SHOULD CONSIDER ..

Illegal activity is just that Illegal ..
Who uses Illegal activities to catch Disqualified participants.....The INTEGRITY TEAM DO ..
Phone taps
Hidden cameras
Hidden surveillance

set ups ..Baiting ..Trolling ...it all takes place and happens today ..to our friends .our Peers Mentors ..

I know my posts have created conjecture ...and i have stirred up sh1t i admit that but most now understand how deep and how many levels corruption sits at within the Greyhound racing industry today STILL ..

Take back what has always been OURS ..

I know i will be a target ..I accept that but if we get more and more people talking and sharing content on Social Media THEN WE MUST KEEP ON DOING SO TO SHED LIGHT ON OUR PLIGHT ..

Social Media is our best weapon to take this head on so just share talk and ACT ...We now have Momentum so if we can each keep doing those 1% then we will win any fight .

Try and follow along here now and we must protect OUR INDUSTRY .before it is too late



Barry Ribbons
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 847
Dogs 68 / Races 231

25 Mar 2017 03:36


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I recently for the first time, raced a dog since the water rule came in.Should of seen this silly old fool (me) trying to kennel a dog with a bed,water bowl and a bottle of Mount Franklin water.
I walked off with the young attendant to kennel and they realised I hadn't gotten a bottle of water from the bottle pile (help yourself).. so had to fall over everyone on the way back to get my water bottle.
Dog drank all the water and pissed all through his bed (first time) and had to lay in it and ran like a busted.I have know doubt my dog sensed this foreign object in his kennel and tried to remove it (was hanging half hooked on kennel door)when I went to collect him for race.
What rubs me with this water rule is they??? treat us like fools,we are not amateurs! our dogs are well hydrated leading up till and after they race..yes there are some newbies that dont do or know the right thing and their dogs end up with acidosis etc,but we shouldn't all be treated like idiots because of a few dills.Vent over



Jack Ogilvie
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 15478
Dogs 0 / Races 1

25 Mar 2017 03:51


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Of course their logic is dogs now have wonderful air conditioning in the kennel block and do not need any further water.
and with that in mind will be the defence your honour as Baird said most greyhound people are dumb f#kers or word to that effect and would not know any better.loL


Russ Forno
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 274
Dogs 0 / Races 0

25 Mar 2017 15:01


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I would like to weigh my dog, just prior to the "stir up". If it is over, i would like to scratch sir. If not, why not sir?. ...... Why was i weighed in the first place? I weighed in at 32.1 k, and now i am at 32.6k, If this dog gets beat sir, i will sue you for pulling my dog up! And what's more, i can prove it!!.... Your Honour??


James Saunders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4644
Dogs 3 / Races 3

25 Mar 2017 21:38


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the bigger issue I'm my opinion is the complete lack of communication channels to the ptb.We as participants don't have a voice and the average steward is simply doing his or her job.Its typical greyhound bullshit ,people from the top with no idea passing down orders to people who just need a job to people trying there guts out to win a race and half would eat poo pies if instructed on race day to enter there dog.Lets face it if we don't get a united voice soon the games gone.Brenton scott is covering his organisations ass so they can continue there little patch .That's it!! his motivation is complete what he has signed us up too is irrelevant as long as his tracks have dogs running on them and contract obligations fulfilled.


Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3159
Dogs 12 / Races 0

25 Mar 2017 22:43


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Russ Forno wrote:

I would like to weigh my dog, just prior to the "stir up". If it is over, i would like to scratch sir. If not, why not sir?. ...... Why was i weighed in the first place? I weighed in at 32.1 k, and now i am at 32.6k, If this dog gets beat sir, i will sue you for pulling my dog up! And what's more, i can prove it!!.... Your Honour??

Russ I think your going a bit over the top.

While I don't agree with the water rule I can't see a dog ever weighing to heavy unless he's given a slab of water to drink and maybe a bugs bunny DVD to watch.

Most dogs will piss out the water if they have a belly full anyway.


Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3159
Dogs 12 / Races 0

25 Mar 2017 22:54


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Here's a thought.........

Well have rules on kennel sizes at home but when they get to the track they are housed in small dog boxes.

I think that would be an interesting case if you were charged for having a dog at home in an under sized kennel at home. Surely if your dog is kennel at a racing track it should come under the same rules???

I can honestly see in the future a lot more people may decide to challenge rulings if they feel there unfair.

I still can't believe we don't really have a strong owners, trainers and breeders association.

Times must change we need to make a stand before our once great sport becomes a part of history that gets told to our great grandkids in the future.


Ronald George Hunter
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4316
Dogs 0 / Races 0

25 Mar 2017 23:01


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Great initiative for very hypo dogs, especially when in
later races. You kennel the dog, and bingo the water is
immediately consumed, then the water container becomes
a problem, as the dog becomes more excited each time a
race is run, he eventually dislodges it, now comes the
danger of injury from this. Also, since this unwarranted
rule implication, this dog now performs worse than before
it's inception! Should be an optionial decision.


Terry Jordan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6013
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Mar 2017 00:34


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ronald george hunter wrote:

Great initiative for very hypo dogs, especially when in
later races. You kennel the dog, and bingo the water is
immediately consumed, then the water container becomes
a problem, as the dog becomes more excited each time a
race is run, he eventually dislodges it, now comes the
danger of injury from this. Also, since this unwarranted
rule implication, this dog now performs worse than before
it's inception! Should be an optionial decision.

Go away Ronny, your making to much sense! 12 months Disq for you!
Show us your Vet Cert, or WDA certification. No No Trainers License wont cut the mustard here!


Jarrad Dale
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2143
Dogs 27 / Races 82

26 Mar 2017 03:38


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Darren Langley wrote:

Here's a thought.........

Well have rules on kennel sizes at home but when they get to the track they are housed in small dog boxes.

I think that would be an interesting case if you were charged for having a dog at home in an under sized kennel at home. Surely if your dog is kennel at a racing track it should come under the same rules???

VERY good point.





Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

26 Mar 2017 03:51


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Darren Langley wrote:

Here's a thought.........

Well have rules on kennel sizes at home but when they get to the track they are housed in small dog boxes.

I think that would be an interesting case if you were charged for having a dog at home in an under sized kennel at home. Surely if your dog is kennel at a racing track it should come under the same rules???

I can honestly see in the future a lot more people may decide to challenge rulings if they feel there unfair.

I still can't believe we don't really have a strong owners, trainers and breeders association.

Times must change we need to make a stand before our once great sport becomes a part of history that gets told to our great grandkids in the future.


..TRANSPARENCY.....I think is a good word Darren
You know we have one rule for some and then other rules for others and until this stops we will never have a level playing field

Call it what you want and i call it ...CORRUPTION... but then again i can over react slightly on occasions .lol



Kenneth Markham
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 252
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Mar 2017 03:56


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I bought the smallest legal sized bowls and opt to leave the muzzle on in the kennels.When the staff challenged me my reply was I have supplied a dog a bed a water bowl a bottle of water and an animal in a healthy state where the bowl is hung or whether the dog can get his muzzle in the bowl becomes my choice besides I don't want them chewing the bed either!



Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

26 Mar 2017 04:42


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kenneth markham wrote:

I bought the smallest legal sized bowls and opt to leave the muzzle on in the kennels.When the staff challenged me my reply was I have supplied a dog a bed a water bowl a bottle of water and an animal in a healthy state where the bowl is hung or whether the dog can get his muzzle in the bowl becomes my choice besides I don't want them chewing the bed either!

Nice ...Very valid points you raise Ken ...


Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3159
Dogs 12 / Races 0

26 Mar 2017 07:19


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Jarrad Dale wrote:

Darren Langley wrote:

Here's a thought.........

Well have rules on kennel sizes at home but when they get to the track they are housed in small dog boxes.

I think that would be an interesting case if you were charged for having a dog at home in an under sized kennel at home. Surely if your dog is kennel at a racing track it should come under the same rules???

VERY good point.

Rules for one rules for all.


Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3159
Dogs 12 / Races 0

26 Mar 2017 07:40


 (0)
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Kevin Wright wrote:

Darren Langley wrote:

Here's a thought.........

Well have rules on kennel sizes at home but when they get to the track they are housed in small dog boxes.

I think that would be an interesting case if you were charged for having a dog at home in an under sized kennel at home. Surely if your dog is kennel at a racing track it should come under the same rules???

I can honestly see in the future a lot more people may decide to challenge rulings if they feel there unfair.

I still can't believe we don't really have a strong owners, trainers and breeders association.

Times must change we need to make a stand before our once great sport becomes a part of history that gets told to our great grandkids in the future.


..TRANSPARENCY.....I think is a good word Darren
You know we have one rule for some and then other rules for others and until this stops we will never have a level playing field

Call it what you want and i call it ...CORRUPTION... but then again i can over react slightly on occasions .lol

I think the tables are slowly turning



Terry Jordan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6013
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Mar 2017 23:45


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2 Full pages in the Recorder: Conditions into the "Golden Easer/Egg
No mention of Interstate Trainers having to supply Water Bowls.
IT'S COMPULSORY! ISN'T IT!! Only in NSW
1st offence reprimand! would take that, rather than disadvantage my dog. Would take that to ADVANTAGE my dog! Stupid Stupid Rule!

posts 35page  1 2