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the chief to stay (grv)page  1 2 

Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6689
Dogs 26 / Races 9

09 Apr 2018 06:40


 (2)
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i think he has done a reasonable job to date ,
EXTERNAL LINK



Mark Schlegel
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3133
Dogs 9 / Races 5

09 Apr 2018 09:55


 (11)
 (2)

You're easily pleased....


Peter Griffen
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 26
Dogs 19 / Races 0

09 Apr 2018 10:31


 (14)
 (1)

Mark Schlegel wrote:

You're easily pleased....


Two more years of SPIN AND SURVEYS can't wait



Dan Hollywood
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4080
Dogs 3 / Races 3

09 Apr 2018 21:43


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He sounded promising but never delivered what the industry really needed, that's standing up to those who want to shut the industry down.


Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 511
Dogs 1 / Races 1

10 Apr 2018 02:19


 (10)
 (1)

Michael Barry wrote:

i think he has done a reasonable job to date ,
EXTERNAL LINK

A patchwork quilt of cover ups and blunders from the top down, in every department. Where as trainers get railroaded, they get promoted and glorified.

Bring on November, then lets have a chat after that. There are some meaty bits going into a folder that may see the light of day then.



Anthony McVicker
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1290
Dogs 14 / Races 102

10 Apr 2018 11:23


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He is only a pawn


Neil Armstrong
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 131
Dogs 0 / Races 0

10 Apr 2018 12:25


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We should be very grateful that we have a CEO like Alan Clayton.He has not wavered from day one on his postion. He has worked with the minister and all participants in moving forward to keep our industry alive and thriving. This is a positive move to a bright future for all.



Mark Schlegel
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3133
Dogs 9 / Races 5

10 Apr 2018 13:37


 (5)
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neil armstrong wrote:

We should be very grateful that we have a CEO like Alan Clayton.He has not wavered from day one on his postion. He has worked with the minister and all participants in moving forward to keep our industry alive and thriving. This is a positive move to a bright future for all.


HAHAHA

Troll level Donald Trump!



Mark Staines
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3231
Dogs 68 / Races 13

10 Apr 2018 14:33


 (9)
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neil armstrong wrote:

We should be very grateful that we have a CEO like Alan Clayton.He has not wavered from day one on his postion. He has worked with the minister and all participants in moving forward to keep our industry alive and thriving. This is a positive move to a bright future for all.

"Only a Spaceman would make that statement"



Geoff Collins
(Verified User)
Posts 1817
Dogs 224 / Races 30

10 Apr 2018 23:40


 (9)
 (11)

Major Tom to Ground Control

I’m firmly in the ‘Don’t Sack the Coach’ camp … Alan has made a few mistakes and I don’t agree with everything that has been done but as things sit right now I’m in favour of him staying on.

He was appointed at a very difficult time under direction of a Government .. committed to the Milne (Chief Vets) Report and Sal Perna’s Integrity Commission report .. to clean up an industry that even participants were suggesting wasn’t well regulated

As I said, there have been mistakes made (on both sides) but the biggest thing is we are all a lot wiser now and the communication and respect between Alan and participant bodies is very good and I think bodes for a reasonably good future



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 486
Dogs 0 / Races 0

11 Apr 2018 01:38


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 (2)

Geoff,

Both Milne and Perna decided overbreeding to be the cause of high euthanasia rates, and were supported by Clayton. None of the three bothered to investigate and analyse the problem - if there was one.

Clayton has since been trying to revitalise breeding activity - still without apparently looking more deeply into the causes and effects. His only answer has been to ease off on some rego fees - an expected answer from a bureaucrat.

He has stopped trying to influence proposed punitive housekeeping regulations and instead told participants to write in themselves. (Yet GRV is responsible for the progress and development of the industry).

His next answer has been to introduce a more complicated system for Veterans races (one run every week or two), further adding to IT costs, but without nominating why this was necessary.

He is presiding over a long string of trackworks (by his predecessors) which served to add more bend starts to many Vic tracks. He also claimed UTS did the design of the new Horsham track - they did not, they merely offered advice on some minor matters.

Clayton has handed out some prize increases but Vic finances are based on (a) periodic unearned rises in shares of the total Vic market and (b) helpful government grants, particularly for new tracks and breeding incentives which never worked. 2018 reports will cover the full effect of cost increases due to more welfare activity. Vic lost money in 2017.

What will be his next trick?

NB NSW is now gearing up to reduce breeding by taxing pups, apparently to counteract euthanasia, but all based on the overbreeding myth which Vic pushed. How that pans out in a world of falling breeding numbers is anyone's guess.

Absolutely, Vic (and NSW, Qld) had, or have, culture problems amongst administrations and participants but subsequent events show that (a) no-one has really got to the bottom of the question of why it all happened, and (b) all corrective action has been along bureaucratic lines which tend add staff and to paper over the reasons for the shortcomings. What has worked well in Vic (and possibly SA) is GAP activity, although even that is under attack from volunteer organisations who reckon they are being bypassed.





Anthony McVicker
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1290
Dogs 14 / Races 102

11 Apr 2018 12:12


 (9)
 (1)

Geoff Collins wrote:

Major Tom to Ground Control

I’m firmly in the ‘Don’t Sack the Coach’ camp … Alan has made a few mistakes and I don’t agree with everything that has been done but as things sit right now I’m in favour of him staying on.

He was appointed at a very difficult time under direction of a Government .. committed to the Milne (Chief Vets) Report and Sal Perna’s Integrity Commission report .. to clean up an industry that even participants were suggesting wasn’t well regulated

As I said, there have been mistakes made (on both sides) but the biggest thing is we are all a lot wiser now and the communication and respect between Alan and participant bodies is very good and I think bodes for a reasonably good future

Geoff

He has his favourites and he has done well to garnish their support to win industry support at a certain upper level. I will give him that, but that's about it.


Geoff Collins
(Verified User)
Posts 1817
Dogs 224 / Races 30

11 Apr 2018 23:48


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Anthony … interesting you say that about the ‘upper level’ … I was speaking to GRV senior manager yesterday and they were bemoaning the fact that none of the smaller scale trainers applied for the recently formed racing committee .. if people aren’t prepared to put their hands up and get involved it’s no good complaining that no one listens


Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 511
Dogs 1 / Races 1

12 Apr 2018 00:34


 (10)
 (1)

Geoff Collins wrote:

Anthony … interesting you say that about the ‘upper level’ … I was speaking to GRV senior manager yesterday and they were bemoaning the fact that none of the smaller scale trainers applied for the recently formed racing committee .. if people aren’t prepared to put their hands up and get involved it’s no good complaining that no one listens


Geoff, those meetings are confidential but I have heard some interesting things on how they were and are run. At the beginning people applied and GRV could pick and choose who they wanted, any trouble makers or non conformists need not apply. And do not think that small time people are not putting in because they are (the silent majority)you just do not know about it, and my belief is one person can make a difference, history has proven that time and time again. A talkfest is what I see this to be and to conform with a requirement that GRV has to uphold in their charter, a roll I thought the GOTBA was to fulfil however it seems to have been bypassed. GRV would be bemoaning a lot of things, I guess justice will take its course in the fullness of time!
PS and the last person at GRV that actually listened, sadly fell on his sword!


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 486
Dogs 0 / Races 0

12 Apr 2018 00:43


 (8)
 (0)

Geoff,

That's easy for him to say. I am happy to be corrected but the long term picture is ......

1. Consultative committees are notoriously risky or unproductive ways of getting your message across. What they come up with can be accepted or dismissed or just forgotten at the whim of the regulator. Usually, you don't know much about the proceedings anyway.

2. It is the regulator's job to seek out the views of participants on a daily basis and, where appropriate, mesh them into his considerations of future policy. He cannot, or should not, pass off that responsibility to the participant.

3. Few participants or other observers are in a position to put forward s good case because they lack administrative expertise and/or are not in possession of necessary facts.

4. Small trainers, almost by definition, probably have other jobs to go to and/or do not have staff to look after things while spending lots of time travelling to meetings.

5. Obviously, there will be exceptions to the above but fundamentally your quote from the GRV manager amounts to a cop out. If you take on a well paid job like that you are expected to meet a variety of challenges and not just pass the buck.

Let me offer a much different but related example of this thinking. Every state authority, including GRV, is prone to making small changes to their information output every couple of years or so - results, formguides etc. Not once has any of them ever asked the users of this material in advance to comment on those proposals. Many users may not notice but hundreds of other people will have to turn around and modify their data systems, whether computerised or not. It can amount to a huge workload. For example, you may recall a few years ago GRV arranged to adjust the timing mechanism on the boxes at Sandown. Times quickened by around 0.10 as a result. That forced me to alter times on some 400 pages of my program - a huge job.

The authority's task is to make it simple, easy and attractive for people to take part in the industry, otherwise it will fade into the background. Yes, they are "policemen", but they are also facilitators - or should be.



Mathew Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 38
Dogs 0 / Races 0

12 Apr 2018 12:49


 (19)
 (1)

The little trainers are sick of being ignored ,so why would they put their hand up. I went to one meeting and couldn't be any less impressed by the lack of interest shown by the people that had asked us to attend and provide input,from where I sat it was here's some food and a drink ,here's what we have to say and know it's your turn but my mind is elsewhere as in I don't care ,
I walked away extremely disappointed and wouldn't go back as it's a waste of time ,they are on a pre planned course and they use these sort of meetings to justify their future plans for our industry and hide behind "with extensive consultation with industry participants this is the way forward"


Trevor John Rhodes
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 72
Dogs 0 / Races 11

12 Apr 2018 22:24


 (5)
 (2)

Bruce Teague wrote:

Geoff,

I am happy to be corrected. Really?

1. Consultative committees are notoriously risky or unproductive ways of getting your message across. What they come up with can be accepted or dismissed or just forgotten at the whim of the regulator. Usually, you don't know much about the proceedings anyway.

2. It is the regulator's job to seek out the views of participants on a daily basis and, where appropriate, mesh them into his considerations of future policy. He cannot, or should not, pass off that responsibility to the participant.

Like the extensive participant workshops held by GRV?

3. Few participants or other observers are in a position to put forward s good case because they lack administrative expertise and/or are not in possession of necessary facts.

That's a rash generalisation, you are an observer Bruce, What facts don't participants posses>

4. Small trainers, almost by definition, probably have other jobs to go to and/or do not have staff to look after things while spending lots of time travelling to meetings.

Fair point!

5. Obviously, there will be exceptions to the above but fundamentally your quote from the GRV manager amounts to a cop out. If you take on a well paid job like that you are expected to meet a variety of challenges and not just pass the buck.

Stating the obvious is not passing the buck.

Let me offer a much different but related example of this thinking. Every state authority, including GRV, is prone to making small changes to their information output every couple of years or so - results, formguides etc. Not once has any of them ever asked the users of this material in advance to comment on those proposals. Many users may not notice but hundreds of other people will have to turn around and modify their data systems, whether computerised or not. It can amount to a huge workload. For example, you may recall a few years ago GRV arranged to adjust the timing mechanism on the boxes at Sandown. Times quickened by around 0.10 as a result. That forced me to alter times on some 400 pages of my program - a huge job.

Bruce you like typing, suck it up they weren't trying to tell you when where how much and what size keyboard to use, you'll get over it!

The authority's task is to make it simple, easy and attractive for people to take part in the industry, otherwise it will fade into the background. Yes, they are "policemen", but they are also facilitators - or should be.

Simple easy and attractive within the guidelines set by a few reports based on dodgy figures, pushed by panicking politicians in other states being dragged along by the activists. That's all old ground Bruce. Allan Clayton by re signing til 2020 shows commitment it gives us a degree of certainty and if he had the "tin ear" some are suggesting the Victorian Code of Practice would have got up in its first draft form and wiped us out.
That's the big picture, all the rest is noisy static. Yes there's a bit to whinge about but don't get fret the small stuff with Clayton.

He was handed a bunch of do s**t and asked to make a sculpture which looks good doesn't smell, is organic enough for the greenies not panned by the critics has enough meat left in it for participants and if it all comes together is suitable for politicians to take credit for its creation.





Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 486
Dogs 0 / Races 0

13 Apr 2018 00:46


 (8)
 (0)

Trevor,

You are quite right - "He was handed a bunch of do s**t and asked to make a sculpture which looks good doesn't smell, is organic enough for the greenies not panned by the critics has enough meat left in it for participants and if it all comes together is suitable for politicians to take credit for its creation".

Having succeeded in that (by adding staff and more regulations) he then moves up to scratch and has to look at what to do next.

So far, that has amounted to fiddling with a few fees, charges, prize money and grading rules - all everyday bureaucratic functions - plus boosting the GAP program (good, but outside re-homers are not all happy).

Yet much of the current effort still has a base in the overbreeding "problem" which Milne, Perna and Clayton all claimed was the source of much of the euthanasia. And still do. None of them tried to properly analyse the breeding subject holistically - they just jumped to a convenient solution.

Such patterns are typical of bureaucrats - they are embroiled in the process, not the outcomes.

The greyhound industry desperately needs better outcomes but it will never get them while it is controlled by bureaucrats and committees. It's not the people - good bureaucrats are necessary and valuable in the right spot. But not in running a commercial industry. Neatness does not produce profits.



Lawrence Parker
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1399
Dogs 3 / Races 0

13 Apr 2018 09:44


 (16)
 (0)

He has spent millions of our dollars persecuting members In some cases for no good reason, to the point they have left the game because they can't afford the dollars to defend themselves like the money Grv have thrown around on lawyers. He has spent millions on integrity & compliance staff, only to sack & payout these people then hire someone else, ex cops., greenies & nohopers. Yeah, he's done heaps for the greyhound game. I myself am leaving the industry I've loved for fourty years as I can't stand all the crap going on.


Michael Floyd
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 764
Dogs 0 / Races 0

14 Apr 2018 01:39


 (1)
 (0)

Bruce Teague wrote:

For example, you may recall a few years ago GRV arranged to adjust the timing mechanism on the boxes at Sandown. Times quickened by around 0.10 as a result.

You mean installed a new set of boxes with a different timing mechanism, installed in conjunction with the change of track surface?

posts 25page  1 2