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Do you have questions about breeding theories? Or do you need tips on how to rear your pups?
Aussie breeder's advice appreciated...
Mick Ryan USA (Verified User) Posts 17 Dogs 0 / Races 0 16 Apr 2018 00:59
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Hello,
I wanted to gauge Aussie breeders potential interest in two American Sires. Ive been following the success of Dyna Dean, sired by Mon Manny and the speedy Elevated out of Bella Infrared. Both US sires are out of the same damline, one sired by Manny and the other by Infrared. Red is speed and HC is the distance king.
Highly Classified CLICK HERE Kinda Cruel Red CLICK HERE As an American breeder we are looking for import blood more and more. We dont have the caps on frozen semen that you do and it has caught up to our pedigrees.
With Fanta Bale having such a mix of international blood and being so successful, do you think this is a sign of the times to come?
I'm reasonably new to the game , so my opinion and knowledge is a blip on what veterans are out there in experience,but this is data , open to all to have their say So here's my green opinion
3 years ago it was the sign of the times ,now it is in full throttle and opening up more and more . Look at the top 4 money earners , all have an American outcross in them,I'm aware the current money list doesn't reflect the greatness in today's Greys to yesterday's legends on less prize money ! But hey , they weren't bad runners all the same !
US sires have made their mark all over the world , and not just in volume , but producing the best runners we have ever seen !
US broodline representation, has had her fair share of wraps lately so I'll go no further Sires Bella infrared KC and All Sh Avatar have all been massively successful So has djays , but my opinion on him and his traits just don't suit AUS tracks even though he does sit well on the sires list for runners /winners Djays a strength sire , are very heady (I've had a litter )and need a lot of attention ...seems to be the trend with a lot of strength sires , which brings me to my last point on your 2 next US sire candidates
I would be backing Kinda Cruel Red speed sire ! Lovely dam line , need I say dates to representation! But has a lovely outcross of Irish in him also of great quality !
Seems to be working for Fernando bale as a sire at present
Great topic , I'm sure there's others that could expand in more detail
Ps. Mick can u shed some light on this fellow My early impression is he is throwing good volume per litter and he has served some broods ,the same as his sire (Kc and All )has and produced the better litter !
Mick Ryan USA (Verified User) Posts 17 Dogs 0 / Races 0 17 Apr 2018 14:38
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Hi Nathan!
First off, thanks for taking the time to respond. This is a great topic! Octane was a Penske son and a late speed strength power dog who ran some 5/16 but was a true 3/8 (595/600) dog by your standards with that extra finish.
I am no expert, but I hear your track surfaces are a bit faster, and not as deep. Southland is deep and opposite of our speed tracks like Wheeling and Palm Beach. Mon Manny, throws hounds like SH Avatar and Infrared that seem to put a little more early speed in them, but thats not always the case.
Plus the dams and damsires deserve some of that credit too. There are some new Manny sons and Grandsons as well as Octane progeny coming off the tracks as potential sires so we have plenty of that blood producing. Jay has Counselor, Oshkosh Kid and Monte has Highly Classified and Kinda Cruel Red. Avatar has thrown one heck of a litter already. Check out a dog Konomi CLICK HERE very nice litter and I am a big fan of that damline. It has the dodge blood we both are a fan of.
I do think we are seeing these outcrosses finally hit and payoff. Here in the US we definitely need some options and lots of us are looking. Surf Lorian lit it up his first go around.
I and not 100% certain, but I think Michael Dunne purchased both Superior Panama and Superior Product. Panama was bred over 30 times last month. Michael has an eye for sire talent like few others do. The Dodge blood has crossed extremely well with both Irish and Aussie blood. Gable Vermilion is a great example: CLICK HERE Both Fortress (IRE) and Best of Blue (AU).
Red is a speedster and is getting breedings, but no pups on the track yet. In my opinion this is the best time to send over vials, so thats why I wanted to get a feel on what kind of reception both dogs might receive. Were going to ship a few over now while they are still unproven and the schedule allows it.
Nathan, what Aussie stakes dogs running now do you think would make great outcross matings for American broods?
Cheers,
Mick Ryan
Jim Meletios Australia (Verified User) Posts 592 Dogs 0 / Races 0 17 Apr 2018 14:47
First off, thanks for taking the time to respond. This is a great topic! Octane was a Penske son and a late speed strength power dog who ran some 5/16 but was a true 3/8 (595/600) dog by your standards with that extra finish.
I am no expert, but I hear your track surfaces are a bit faster, and not as deep. Southland is deep and opposite of our speed tracks like Wheeling and Palm Beach. Mon Manny, throws hounds like SH Avatar and Infrared that seem to put a little more early speed in them, but thats not always the case.
Plus the dams and damsires deserve some of that credit too. There are some new Manny sons and Grandsons as well as Octane progeny coming off the tracks as potential sires so we have plenty of that blood producing. Jay has Counselor, Oshkosh Kid and Monte has Highly Classified and Kinda Cruel Red. Avatar has thrown one heck of a litter already. Check out a dog Konomi CLICK HERE very nice litter and I am a big fan of that damline. It has the dodge blood we both are a fan of.
I do think we are seeing these outcrosses finally hit and payoff. Here in the US we definitely need some options and lots of us are looking. Surf Lorian lit it up his first go around.
I and not 100% certain, but I think Michael Dunne purchased both Superior Panama and Superior Product. Panama was bred over 30 times last month. Michael has an eye for sire talent like few others do. The Dodge blood has crossed extremely well with both Irish and Aussie blood. Gable Vermilion is a great example: CLICK HERE Both Fortress (IRE) and Best of Blue (AU).
Red is a speedster and is getting breedings, but no pups on the track yet. In my opinion this is the best time to send over vials, so thats why I wanted to get a feel on what kind of reception both dogs might receive. Were going to ship a few over now while they are still unproven and the schedule allows it.
Nathan, what Aussie stakes dogs running now do you think would make great outcross matings for American broods?
Cheers,
Mick Ryan
Hi mick Sorry for late response , Yes our tracks are on opposite ends in comparisons to each other even though our times have slowed at some tracks , to say our track preparation is anywhere near US is laughable! Not saying either is right or wrong before anyone jumps on here and heads down a path of better or worse , but we have tracks continually out of action due to unprofessionalism for whatever reason .... materials , track management etc Like I said , it's laughable!
You can never answer for anyone else on what or how a stud dog would be received ,when US sires became easily accessible a few years ago I would guess in my opinion that there would have been more saying not using them then giving it a go . The walls are breaking down now , but it still amazes me how many poeple actually haven't heard of these top 3 sires mentioned above , Bella/ SH/ KC
Mick Poeple here are willing to pay $7-10k for KC or Bella straws for obvious reasons Being not available anymore I think which ever sire produces the next consistent grp winning son of these 2 sires , you will be in a handy and much wanted and well received position. Hence I backed speedster Kinda Cruel Red Again Poeple aren't interested in the stud dog that produces rear or last box jumping offspring ! Our tracks don't support it or box allocation on our most common distance 400 mtr starting on a bend which 98% of the time starts and ends with a collision!
Your question on who would be a good possible outcross dog that is currently running now is quite a loaded question , lol ! We have so many recently retired studs and so many new stars coming out it feels like one is born every month here ! Who ever I say now will either be questioned by the next reader or put down or bettered by another runner who's run quicker times the month before ! Lol Much like Jim questioned Panama!
I do have one that has caught my eye lately ,again I repeat there are faster Greys at present with runs on the board (grp wins) but this guy just has something you need to see when he races ! Lovely natural stride , great turn of foot , almost effortless I think these qualities match US racing in short with obvious blood lines that are proven to US previously
He has been bred on a double dam line to Katunga Park much like Mon Manny to She's a Natural His brood Flossy is a litter sister to stud dog Stagger which had tremendous chase and durability! Another quality that suits or is of important value to American breeding He was an iron dog that had over 130 starts (which is a lot in AUS ) he has produced grp winners from limited matings with maiden bitches or low level and going good as a sire !
Here he is, a nice 34kg aswell .... CLICK HERE Again there are many others and in AUS at present there is enormous volume of potential sires !
Another mick that I like that is a proven stud dog already and not mentioned to much Under rated I believe , produces nice dogs with a powerful finishing trait His sire line has clicked many times with US blood and produced other stud dogs and champions . Contains Brett lee also through dam which is proven also
CLICK HERE Nice chatting mick , again I'm a novice in all departments in comparison to these 40 year veterans ! But always up for a chat At the end of the day , nothing is set in stone and it's all a matter of opinion
Good luck and keep us posted on breaking news Cheers mick
Jim Meletios Australia (Verified User) Posts 592 Dogs 0 / Races 0 20 Apr 2018 14:57
He beat Dyna Double One then Fernando Bale at Sandown at consecutive meetings
Mick Ryan USA (Verified User) Posts 17 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Apr 2018 22:27
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Nathan/Jim appreciate the reply!
We also have a couple nice choices that Paul Wheeler sent over as well as Geoff Collins handled by Mike Strickland. I enjoyed watching Fanta Bale immensely. Right now I am having fun watching Dyna Dean and some of the other distance stars competing in the current 595 stake rounds. I usually give Mike a call or text for any updates I might have missed.
Peter Griffen Australia (Verified User) Posts 92 Dogs 21 / Races 0 31 May 2018 03:09
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Mick Ryan wrote:
Nathan/Jim appreciate the reply!
We also have a couple nice choices that Paul Wheeler sent over as well as Geoff Collins handled by Mike Strickland. I enjoyed watching Fanta Bale immensely. Right now I am having fun watching Dyna Dean and some of the other distance stars competing in the current 595 stake rounds. I usually give Mike a call or text for any updates I might have missed.
Peter Griffen Australia (Verified User) Posts 92 Dogs 21 / Races 0 31 May 2018 03:13
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Interesting to see KINDA CRUEL RED is now available in AUSTRALIA
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1223 Dogs 13 / Races 0 18 Aug 2018 09:29
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Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Mick Ryan wrote:
Hi Nathan!
First off, thanks for taking the time to respond. This is a great topic! Octane was a Penske son and a late speed strength power dog who ran some 5/16 but was a true 3/8 (595/600) dog by your standards with that extra finish.
I am no expert, but I hear your track surfaces are a bit faster, and not as deep. Southland is deep and opposite of our speed tracks like Wheeling and Palm Beach. Mon Manny, throws hounds like SH Avatar and Infrared that seem to put a little more early speed in them, but thats not always the case.
Plus the dams and damsires deserve some of that credit too. There are some new Manny sons and Grandsons as well as Octane progeny coming off the tracks as potential sires so we have plenty of that blood producing. Jay has Counselor, Oshkosh Kid and Monte has Highly Classified and Kinda Cruel Red. Avatar has thrown one heck of a litter already. Check out a dog Konomi CLICK HERE very nice litter and I am a big fan of that damline. It has the dodge blood we both are a fan of.
I do think we are seeing these outcrosses finally hit and payoff. Here in the US we definitely need some options and lots of us are looking. Surf Lorian lit it up his first go around.
I and not 100% certain, but I think Michael Dunne purchased both Superior Panama and Superior Product. Panama was bred over 30 times last month. Michael has an eye for sire talent like few others do. The Dodge blood has crossed extremely well with both Irish and Aussie blood. Gable Vermilion is a great example: CLICK HERE Both Fortress (IRE) and Best of Blue (AU).
Red is a speedster and is getting breedings, but no pups on the track yet. In my opinion this is the best time to send over vials, so thats why I wanted to get a feel on what kind of reception both dogs might receive. Were going to ship a few over now while they are still unproven and the schedule allows it.
Nathan, what Aussie stakes dogs running now do you think would make great outcross matings for American broods?
Cheers,
Mick Ryan
Hi mick Sorry for late response , Yes our tracks are on opposite ends in comparisons to each other even though our times have slowed at some tracks , to say our track preparation is anywhere near US is laughable! Not saying either is right or wrong before anyone jumps on here and heads down a path of better or worse , but we have tracks continually out of action due to unprofessionalism for whatever reason .... materials , track management etc Like I said , it's laughable!
You can never answer for anyone else on what or how a stud dog would be received ,when US sires became easily accessible a few years ago I would guess in my opinion that there would have been more saying not using them then giving it a go . The walls are breaking down now , but it still amazes me how many poeple actually haven't heard of these top 3 sires mentioned above , Bella/ SH/ KC
Mick Poeple here are willing to pay $7-10k for KC or Bella straws for obvious reasons Being not available anymore I think which ever sire produces the next consistent grp winning son of these 2 sires , you will be in a handy and much wanted and well received position. Hence I backed speedster Kinda Cruel Red Again Poeple aren't interested in the stud dog that produces rear or last box jumping offspring ! Our tracks don't support it or box allocation on our most common distance 400 mtr starting on a bend which 98% of the time starts and ends with a collision!
Your question on who would be a good possible outcross dog that is currently running now is quite a loaded question , lol ! We have so many recently retired studs and so many new stars coming out it feels like one is born every month here ! Who ever I say now will either be questioned by the next reader or put down or bettered by another runner who's run quicker times the month before ! Lol Much like Jim questioned Panama!
I do have one that has caught my eye lately ,again I repeat there are faster Greys at present with runs on the board (grp wins) but this guy just has something you need to see when he races ! Lovely natural stride , great turn of foot , almost effortless I think these qualities match US racing in short with obvious blood lines that are proven to US previously
He has been bred on a double dam line to Katunga Park much like Mon Manny to She's a Natural His brood Flossy is a litter sister to stud dog Stagger which had tremendous chase and durability! Another quality that suits or is of important value to American breeding He was an iron dog that had over 130 starts (which is a lot in AUS ) he has produced grp winners from limited matings with maiden bitches or low level and going good as a sire !
Here he is, a nice 34kg aswell .... CLICK HERE Again there are many others and in AUS at present there is enormous volume of potential sires !
Another mick that I like that is a proven stud dog already and not mentioned to much Under rated I believe , produces nice dogs with a powerful finishing trait His sire line has clicked many times with US blood and produced other stud dogs and champions . Contains Brett lee also through dam which is proven also
CLICK HERE Nice chatting mick , again I'm a novice in all departments in comparison to these 40 year veterans ! But always up for a chat At the end of the day , nothing is set in stone and it's all a matter of opinion
Good luck and keep us posted on breaking news Cheers mick
Hi mick Like I said 4 months ago , Peter Galo ! one to follow with a natural running style that's awesome to watch and would suit the US I believe . He officially has his grp glory and his first run on the board winning the GRP 2 Shepparton Cup in a scintillating 25.16 ! Pushing up from box 6 Well done all and onya Gussy! Legend
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
