Stand to be corrected here, but I think Bruce that immediate blood testing after a race can be quite dangerous to the animal ?

The other thing to remember is that both Bruce and myself have literally been forced out of the sport even if for sometimes different reasons.

From my perspective I am quite bitter about some of the decisions that have been made that has literally made it impossible for me to continue assessing dogs like I have in the past, as a result I've moved onto rating thoroughbreds which I don't enjoy anywhere near as much as I did rating dogs for over 40 yrs now. I realise plenty of trainers and breeders are in the same boat and I'm not Robinson Carusoe but it's not easy giving up something you've loved to do for a very long period of time. Suggest some of that bitterness may be being vented in this topic and shld not be viewed as any personal attack on the way current trainers do things.

So just asking some questions trying to get an understanding of why some things happen from a trainers viewpoint, as some practises don't appear all that logical when compared to some of the data 'we' may have acquired over a long period of time :)

He can defend himself Rhyno! Your being to kind to him? would he reciprocate?

Having said that, one swallow does not make a summer. My comments are based on several hundred observations.

In any event, stayers are in pretty poor numbers in Brisbane and I can't see any recent heat/final of interest. As in SA, the quality is terrible bar for the very odd exception (Radar Gunn has been doing OK but hardly setting the world on fire). Those that came down for the Sydney Cup did not backup either.

Bruce,
You couldn't be bother/avoided with the original post so there's Buckley's chance of me searching for it again.
Don't be lazy and look yourself.

Correction..there were 7 swallows not 1.
That's why I posted it, Bruce.

Bruce
i will leave you with this very sound advice ..

It is better to swallow a sheep or a goat than swallow what he has been swallowing.
Arjuna Ranatunga

We can ALREADY get "Blood Tests" done on our dogs.
You wish/want Stewards to make it Mandatory on their advice? Am I on the same page Bruce? To appease the Betting public, in your eyes

Are you still concerned with Small Fields? Or want Smaller fields?
These "Blood Tests" I assume will have threshold limits? both "Red & White " blood cells, along with "Liver Alt" levels, Pancreatic readings.

Bruce, If the 8 dogs that went around in the Syd/Cup, all had Blood Tests a week before the Cup? Would the dogs in your eyes have finished in any significant differing order? Save for 1st & 2nd with only a head separating them? (I think not)

All these Articles you have written over the last decade to Authorities. Have amounted to WHAT? Any major changes to our livelihoods? That I should thank you for?

And what on earth has my membership of any organisation got to do with it? You keep on using the "WE" word! Does that imply "Plural"
These changes you 'Propose" for the Authorities, have the backing of how many Trainers Bruce? Seeing that it AFFECTS us ONLY!!

Now Brucey Boy, I'll play your way on this last part.
"This confirms your membership of the "She'll be right" group. This is the same mob that said live baiting and skins on lures would be fine.

Getting a bit "Personal", and "Confrontational" there Brucey, Bit of topic for the "Writer", Bordering on "Trolling"? wouldn't you say.

The best thing about Bruce is that you can poke and prod him all over and he still comes back for more he is a freak ......

Well Kev,

After his personal and slur attack on our mate TJ, it might be a good idea if he swallowed his tongue, or maybe his fingers in this case.
It's not the first time, is it.
Just a very naughty naughty boy.
One day...

Re your question on b12/iron...
As far as I'm aware there is no withholding period as such BUT the ptb suggest not using it close to race day because of the cobalt content.
Now "not close" is anyone's guess because the dogs are all different and depending what you feed...
So we are back to the ridiculous...

wtf does this mean Bruce.....where's this coming from ?
We were having a discussion about rating dogs and some of your findings, I thought.

Ryan,

Yes, that's what I had hoped but it keeps getting de-railed with all the personal attacks on me. These are really boring but it means the serious question is rarely addressed.

I get the impression that if I put up a couple of Zoom Tops in the spare bedroom of my unit (illegally, of course) and took them out for a walk every day, then all would be well.

Sometimes I feel like going back to the days of Dreams Image, Gorgeous George and rushing round the ring at HP to work out which was running dead in the next race.

Meantime, I have no choice but to watch the continuing degradation of a once great breed. It will not happen overnight, but it will happen. The Greens will chalk up another win, more aging trainers will retire, Trackside will dominate and the baying crowd will ask why did we allow this.

There will be an occasional ray of sunshine. For example, NSW is about to make Maths a compulsory HSC subject for Years 11 and 12, so more gamblers might be able to promote themselves to the punting group, unlike most trainers who are seldom interested in price or value, only in how much the bookie will accept.

Then again, Jack Russells are keen chasers so you never know.

Here's another thought. It comes from an article by Greg Sheridan in The Australian today. It concerns publishing but the principle is applicable in many areas. Note the last sentence.

Nothing makes me prouder to be a journalist than the media industrys Right to Know campaign. We are not fighting for our jobs or economic models we are all fiercely, almost insanely, competitive and our economic models are all different. We are fighting for the truth, which in the West is achieved by maximum disclosure of information and the free competition of ideas and interpretations.

I would love to see this featured on noticeboards in all state authority offices.

NB: As I have pointed out many times, I am not a journalist but merely a commentator or writer. There are big differences.

That's not the question he was asking, but no surprise you refuse to answer it.

Terry made points and asked you questions, politely.

You come back with a libelous statement that accuses Terry Jordan of being implicated in live baiting.
Serious in the extreme and malicious.
There is no excuse and the ice is getting thinner.

What would be appropriate right about now is for you to apologize to Terry Jordan, UNRESERVEDLY, preferably with a beg for forgiveness at the end.

Talk about going the player?

Simply unacceptable.

TJ, I'd screenshot this if I was you,(if you haven't already) for I have a feeling its all about to disappear.

seriously though i just don't bother in engaging in a discussion with him cause there aren't enough panadol tablets to relieve the headache it would give me, lol.

He has a talent for providing copious amounts of Data! But most is misdirected and irrelevant.

He has knowledge of Breeding, Rearing, Training, etc from many years of reading and acquiring knowledge from old trainers.
This Bruce doesn't amount to "HANDS ON KNOWLEDGE"

Please concentrate on the "Industry Primary Monetary Goals" Bruce.
Leave the rest alone. ( It's in a big enough mess as it is).

I forgive you! (Gee New Zealand looks great, Bruce)

One last plea.

You say "It's in a big enough mess as it is". Yes, it is and so I mounted a case to improve one aspect of it - ie stamina and whatever is tied up with that.

Absolutely, a fresh viewpoint demands some "filtering" - which is precisely why I raised the subject, together with some current evidence. In practice, I have got a few agreements and a few disagreements but we are all just chatting in the bar. It's the PTB that need to act after running appropriate studies. That's were we need the stir-ups.

Unfortunately, some folk, including yourself, have jumped in to say you can't personally do this or that. But I did not propose that. I simply suggested that some racing rules were failing to optimise the industry's performance. Racing frequency is a key one but there are others.

Certainly, we will never achieve a perfect result but we can at least try.

It would help if you did not try to tell me what I am thinking or what the extent of my knowledge is or where I got it from. If you have them, facts would do that job.

At a difficult time, the industry's prime objective has to be to aim for Excellence in all areas. This is one such.

Here's a very basic example; with empty boxes littering the landscape, GRV is continuing to run races which are limited to Vicbred dogs. Why? What good does that do?

PS: The issue of racing frequency came up in another way recently when I was critical of the dual penalty applied to a dog when checking in overweight - ie a fine and a 10 day ban. I agree with the fine because the trainer is robbing someone else of a chance to race. But why add the 10 day suspension when the weight problem can almost certainly be fixed in a few days?

Most people realise you don't need to go to the moon to know it's there, especially when you can provide evidence to support your conclusion.

btw I loved this:

Bruce Teague wrote:

...I preferred not to donate Christmas presents to the betting houses....

So true, yet so many believe punters are addicted and will bet no matter what, little do they know the full time form guys are anything but addicted, and they will walk away without filling in any surveys.

I used to speak a little French, possibly
helped by the fact that my g-g-g grandfather was born in Alsace-Lorraine and worked for Napoleon, which makes me 1/8 French. I also did a couple of years of German at school, which fits in well because A-L has switched back and forth between Germany and France control. Still, that may not be what you are after.

If I can be a bit of a pedant, your addicted "punter" is actually a gambler. Personally, I doubt there are many punters left anyway but I could be wrong. There are certainly no commission rooms left.

However, when I said there were no possibilities left, I was not telling the whole truth. In fact, I have one systematic selection method left. It involves races where the fav has a big chance of losing (there are many) and where I bet on the remainder. Putting Boom Down on top rather than BRM would be an example.

This is profitable but it is really not a goer. The rewards, given tiny pools and all the Mystery bets, are such that my pay per hour doing form is not worth the trouble - they would be even worse than a trainer who has to put in 24 hours a day.

I agree there is a degree of addiction involved with gamblers but my guess is that the main motivation is just to have a bit of fun with small notes in your wallet while downing a schooner and thumbing your iPad/I-Phone. That's another subject which the PTB would find well worth investigating, although experience to date suggests they have little idea of what to research or how.

Even worse is that the PTB has little control over these things anyway - TABCORP decides how/what/where/when in the betting stakes.
The MDC has been a welcome exception but I would still like to know where the 2019 cash came from.