The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.
Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.
If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.
In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.
Sheldon Hamilton Australia (Verified User) Posts 27 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Dec 2019 01:32
(6)
(0)
Hi. Just want to expose the upcoming distance opportunities Ballarat has on offer for all those trainers who want to race without the fear of being out graded over 660m.
Ballarat in February is ensuring a 660m each week with bottom up grading and greater spread of prize money.
For 3 weeks Ballarat OFFER Prelude (s) with Prize money spread as below:
1st $1320 2nd $545 3rd $330 4th $160 5th 8th $90
Preludes dates;
Wednesday February 5, Wednesday February 12, Wednesday February 19.
FINALS: Wednesday February 25.
The 8 fastest prelude times make up Grand Final A Prize money:
1st $10,000 2nd $3,000 3rd $1,500 4th $1,000
The 8 slowest times make up. Grand final B
This is correct the 8 slowest times will make up Grand final B. Prize money:
1st $3,000 2nd $1,000 3rd $500 4th $250
To help with getting your dogs ready. Ballarat has FREE 660m trials starting from 1 Jan 2020.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 23 Dec 2019 02:58
(2)
(0)
Is it Open Grading?
I like the concept as it keeps greyhounds, who are looking for middle distance races, in work and something to aim for.
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 23 Dec 2019 05:45
(2)
(0)
What a great initiative, the person or people that came up with this deserve a raise. I don't get why maidens are not able to compete though....
Rich.
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 23 Dec 2019 06:55
(4)
(0)
Richard Gray wrote:
What a great initiative, the person or people that came up with this deserve a raise. I don't get why maidens are not able to compete though....
Rich.
Maidens get one or two chances a month to shine ....The problem is when they put on a 0-6 straight away you are out graded ... If the GRV told us that each track each month was hosting a Maiden 600-700 race then we would be able to place our younger dogs and bitches accordingly and people would Nom if they knew they had a chance to win or run a place within the same grade ...
NOVICE Distance races should be a priority IMO
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 24 Dec 2019 10:53
(0)
(0)
Try getting this one to win over 4-500,,,, distance dogs are lost to the game simply because they do no get a start. EXTERNAL LINK
Hayden Gilders Australia (Verified User) Posts 993 Dogs 29 / Races 0 24 Dec 2019 12:30
(2)
(0)
In a time where then the gurus of this site keep talking of dog shortages over any distances (for the survival of the industry) quasi experts come up with this rubbish. Have a look at recent events, . Ballarat heat nite 2 noms for a 650. Ballarat cup nite . 4 dog field won by true detective (group 1...? ) May have been better had it looked at sale. Last week at Ballarat 600 mtrs won by same kennel (lanigan) The ultimate winner broke 31 over 545 previous start. (Incentive for newbys. Or money for jam. Incedentialy u,(same dog ran last in both of these 600s) thats near 10 K to one kennel. What good was that to encourage distance races. Btw at the jump in the 4 dog race at the jump the on course tote pool was 2.5k yippee. Bendigo 27th advertised events ignored including 500 metres races. So that the rush of blood for the stayers can be satisfied. Some of the dogs have nominated have never seen the lure cause they have been that far back (regardless of the trip). I suspect that it all may end in tears. (Not tornado) apologies to any one at Ballarat who may consider this offensive but the whole push is ill timed at best and Ill conceived at worst, just my opinion Hayden. Free trials over 660 in the hottest months of the year wtf
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 25 Dec 2019 07:10
(1)
(0)
Hayden, my post was more about maidens,,, years ago, Sandown ran 900 meter races. Even for maidens.... Over the years the industry has become a short course sprinting game and as a result the shortage of chances to get a staying race going. Not all dogs are suited to be sprinters, but what do you do when you have a dog (maiden) that you know wont win over 400 -500 but will go ok over 600 - 700 ? but there are no advertised events for them?
Rich.
Hayden Gilders Australia (Verified User) Posts 993 Dogs 29 / Races 0 26 Dec 2019 03:59
(1)
(0)
Rich I understand where youre coming from see Bendigo fields of 27th. Debutante was made reserve (likely to get a run and I really wish tconnections all the best) but the notion of paying all starters prize money down to last place- its junior football mentality - every one played well so they get a prize. And bottom up grading is surely rewarding mediocrity. But I suspect their are many in the industry who can identify with that some of whom perhaps are rewarded for the same attribute.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 26 Dec 2019 06:50
(3)
(0)
Hayden, Youre a hard marker. Bottom up grading n paying p/m for all starters are good ideas, but not the norm. If 1st Prize is $1000, 8th isnt $1000 too ! The idea is good to keep stayers going. Theyre entitled to a chance for some monies when they get a chance to race over more suitable ground. However, I understand your concerns about the heat in January.... Maybe try it four times a year..
Hayden Gilders Australia (Verified User) Posts 993 Dogs 29 / Races 0 26 Dec 2019 11:33
(1)
(0)
Mark insincerity will get you no where. If grv were so keen on the advancement of distance racing why did they not allow for it at Traralgon ? why did they not include a distance at Horsham. mark the fact is that 30% of greyhounds shape up each week in their 3 ? 875 per win max. And you think its good to say lets pick out the least popular distance nominated for (check the noms as I have) and say lets turn this into an extravigansia of distance racing.
Mark there is no direction no leadership no accountability. I think the new guy at grv has purchased a vacuum cleaner and a set of encyclopaedias from a couple of hawkers and this is what hes been sold, and Ballarat club with its ego(s) has got excited. But for the trainers (dogs) I wish them well If it proves to be successful, will it be offered to all other classes and distances,, will all distances races have parody with the sprints, will the laurel have the same stake money as the silver chief. these hawkers are quoting turnover and minimisation of injuries as reasons to increase distance racing, and a months free trials will fix all. Mark I was at the Ballarat cup when James vandermar continually belittled Almana. Berisha as a dog that needed a Brady episode to win the final and laughed about the part time baker and his dog that in his view should not have made the final ( vandermars antics an embarrassments in them selves) but he made the final on his merits and got due reward for it which is more than what will happen here. And if you want to known what I really think just ask me. And just by the way lannigan won the sale cup with a dog that should have been charged with marring but got a warning. Wtf
Hayden Gilders Australia (Verified User) Posts 993 Dogs 29 / Races 0 27 Dec 2019 10:09
(0)
(0)
Bendigo results today are interesting 1 debutante Alina placed 2nd beaten 10 lengths Jamie Ennius trained the winner - hes a master at placing his dogs. 2nd race won by Rioli daw...? Darwin who looked alright as a winner by 8 or 9 lengths. A few dogs in the field actually increased their average losing margins , in fact there are a couple that have stats that show the further they race the further they loose by.. I remember reading an article by reg Kay in which he said that greyhound racing is one of the few sports that does not have a.b .& c class trainers.
I also remember the great P.A.W say there are many in the industry who couldnt train a pig to be dirty
Check the results and you be the judge - bottom up and stake money for all?
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 27 Dec 2019 20:58
(0)
(0)
Understand the above. If they cant get the distance they will need to drop back. If they dont they might get a ticket, but Im not judging any runs because I havent seen any races. Greyhounds often win by big margins. Well done to trainer for finding a suitable race to win.
There could be problems with conditions of race and perhaps dog, not the idea of giving dogs a chance to compete over suitable ground for some. stewards to monitor and Where necessary, GRV to adjust the conditions of race.
Im not in Victoria, so is it open grading for this type of racing ?
We have Pathways in NSW where Greyhounds with lowest points fill ten spots for a race. One sometimes stands out, but often its too hard to pick on form. At least they can compete on level terms once in awhile and one will win once in awhile.. Its not the norm and the concept has its problems.
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 28 Dec 2019 03:03
(2)
(0)
Mark, your quote of "Im not in Victoria, so is it open grading for this type of racing ?" means little when graders do what they want.. Sandown tomorrow (Sunday) they had 6 nominations for maidens over 595, generally they would have had a race with the 6 dogs nominated. (they have done so in the past) 2 grade 7's nominated for same distance, so they threw them in what would have been a maiden race and called it 0-1 wins... And of course the 2 favorites are the grade 7's in what should have been a maiden race.
Brett Margerison Australia (Verified User) Posts 690 Dogs 16 / Races 0 28 Dec 2019 03:30
(1)
(0)
Richard Gray wrote:
Mark, your quote of "Im not in Victoria, so is it open grading for this type of racing ?" means little when graders do what they want.. Sandown tomorrow (Sunday) they had 6 nominations for maidens over 595, generally they would have had a race with the 6 dogs nominated. (they have done so in the past) 2 grade 7's nominated for same distance, so they threw them in what would have been a maiden race and called it 0-1 wins... And of course the 2 favorites are the grade 7's in what should have been a maiden race.
100% Richard, this type of 'graders discretion' goes on far too often... If you are drawn in a race that you haven't nommed for you should have an option to scratch penalty free...
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 28 Dec 2019 04:31
(0)
(0)
I understand the six maidens should have made a maiden race. I agree, but 0-1 wins is not a massive disadvantage surely? I agree, if you didnt nominate for the race you should be entitled to scratch. They cant put you in a race like a 0-6 wins up here unless you nominate for it.
Im trying to make sense of your system and grading. We have similar concerns, but overall its not too bad. Im trying to make general comments. So, this particular race is not open to all comers?? It seems to me it is, but with bottom up grading?
We sometimes get a courtesy call from GRNSW about our nomination, which trainers appreciate as the authority tries to cater for all nominations.
Anyway, good luck.
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 28 Dec 2019 05:31
(1)
(0)
Mark, we have maidens, grade 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 and so on. Then there are restricted wins (when advertised) free for all's (except maidens) then mixed graded, special events My issue wasn't with your comment, but more having a go at our grading system.. Since when in this country can you win a maiden race, rise in grades, nominate your dog for a grade 7 and be drawn against maidens? (obviously why the grade 7 is favorite which in my opinion is not fair on all maidens nominated expecting to race against maidens) As for not being a big disadvantage,, first prize is $1,620... At the end of the day, it looks like the graders can invent a new grade at the drop of a hat...
Now, trying to stay "on topic" regarding "660M BOTTOM UP GRADING Ballarat" Maidens are not eligible for this event! (but grade 7's are) So now a grade 7 is OK to race against maidens in an "invented grade" but a maiden is unable to nominate in a race that a grade 7 can? I just don't get it...
Cheers. Rich.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 28 Dec 2019 06:00
(1)
(0)
Mark Donohue wrote:
I understand the six maidens should have made a maiden race. I agree, but 0-1 wins is not a massive disadvantage surely? I agree, if you didnt nominate for the race you should be entitled to scratch. They cant put you in a race like a 0-6 wins up here unless you nominate for it.
Im trying to make sense of your system and grading. We have similar concerns, but overall its not too bad. Im trying to make general comments. So, this particular race is not open to all comers?? It seems to me it is, but with bottom up grading?
We sometimes get a courtesy call from GRNSW about our nomination, which trainers appreciate as the authority tries to cater for all nominations.
Anyway, good luck.
In a staying race 0-2 is not a major disadvantage.
Either a dog can stay or it can't
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 28 Dec 2019 06:52
(0)
(0)
Richard, Up here, we have Mixed Stakes (0-2 wins) a race that is advertised with a condition (0-2 wins only). Its been going on for 30 years. I dont have a problem with it. If trainer doesnt think dog is suited to the condition, he/she doesnt nominate and waits for a more suitable race such as a maiden race. If the authority is not putting on enough maidens, ring them up and voice your concerns.
In terms of this type of race, if maidens cant race then its a condition. Perhaps they could amend it for next time e.g. maidens and G6-7 grades eligible, 0-2 wins, 0-4 wins, no city wins, etc
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 28 Dec 2019 06:58
(0)
(0)
I do agree Sandro,,,, my point is, when nominating for a maiden event, you would expect to be racing against maidens, Likewise when nominating a dog that has broken its maiden status, you would not expect to be placed in a field of maidens... (and start favorite) Also looking at your comment,,, then why are maidens unable to enter for a distance race where grades 7 and 6 can? (devils advocate mate, lol)
Rich
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 28 Dec 2019 07:02
(1)
(0)
Have no issue with that Mark,,, If I wanted to nominate for such a race,, that's great,,, but when the grader just "invents" a non advertised event... that gives me the shits.
Do you have questions how to use the Greyhound-Data website?
