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660M BOTTOM UP GRADING Ballarat page  1 2 

Sheldon Hamilton
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 13
Dogs 0 / Races 0

23 Dec 2019 02:32


 (6)
 (0)


Hi. Just want to expose the upcoming distance opportunities Ballarat has on offer for all those trainers who want to race without the fear of being out graded over 660m.

Ballarat in February is ensuring a 660m each week with bottom up grading and greater spread of prize money.

For 3 weeks Ballarat OFFER Prelude (s) with Prize money spread as below:

1st Ė $1320
2nd Ė $545
3rd Ė $330
4th Ė $160
5th Ė 8th Ė $90

Preludes dates;

Wednesday February 5,
Wednesday February 12,
Wednesday February 19.

FINALS:
Wednesday February 25.

The 8 fastest prelude times make up
Grand Final A
Prize money:

1st Ė $10,000
2nd Ė $3,000
3rd Ė $1,500
4th Ė $1,000

The 8 slowest times make up.
Grand final B

This is correct the 8 slowest times will make up Grand final B.
Prize money:

1st Ė $3,000
2nd Ė $1,000
3rd Ė $500
4th Ė $250

To help with getting your dogs ready. Ballarat has FREE 660m trials starting from 1 Jan 2020.




Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2691
Dogs 6 / Races 0

23 Dec 2019 03:58


 (2)
 (0)


Is it Open Grading?

I like the concept as it keeps greyhounds, who are looking for middle distance races, in work and something to aim for.



Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2185
Dogs 11 / Races 9

23 Dec 2019 06:45


 (2)
 (0)


What a great initiative, the person or people that came up with this deserve a raise. I don't get why maidens are not able to compete though....

Rich.




Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5321
Dogs 1 / Races 1

23 Dec 2019 07:55


 (4)
 (0)


Richard Gray wrote:

What a great initiative, the person or people that came up with this deserve a raise. I don't get why maidens are not able to compete though....

Rich.


Maidens get one or two chances a month to shine ....The problem is when they put on a 0-6 straight away you are out graded ...
If the GRV told us that each track each month was hosting a Maiden 600-700 race then we would be able to place our younger dogs and bitches accordingly and people would Nom if they knew they had a chance to win or run a place within the same grade ...

NOVICE Distance races should be a priority IMO





Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2185
Dogs 11 / Races 9

24 Dec 2019 11:53


 (0)
 (0)


Try getting this one to win over 4-500,,,, distance dogs are lost to the game simply because they do no get a start. EXTERNAL LINK


Hayden Gilders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 783
Dogs 26 / Races 0

24 Dec 2019 13:30


 (2)
 (0)


In a time where then the gurus of this site keep talking of dog shortages over any distances (for the survival of the industry) quasi experts come up with this rubbish. Have a look at recent events,
. Ballarat heat nite 2 noms for a 650.
Ballarat cup nite . 4 dog field won by true detective (group 1...? ) May have been better had it looked at sale. Last week at Ballarat 600 mtrs won by same kennel (lanigan) The ultimate winner broke 31 over 545 previous start. (Incentive for newbys. Or money for jam. Incedentialy u,í(same dog ran last in both of these 600s) thatís near 10 K to one kennel. What good was that to encourage distance races. Btw at the jump in the 4 dog race at the jump the on course tote pool was 2.5k yippee.
Bendigo 27th advertised events ignored including 500 metres races. So that the rush of blood for the stayers can be satisfied. Some of the dogs have nominated
have never seen the lure cause they have been that far back (regardless of the trip). I suspect that it all may end in tears. (Not tornado) apologies to any one at Ballarat who may consider this offensive but the whole push is ill timed at best and Iíll conceived at worst, just my opinion Hayden. Free trials over 660 in the hottest months of the year wtf





Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2185
Dogs 11 / Races 9

25 Dec 2019 08:10


 (1)
 (0)


Hayden, my post was more about maidens,,, years ago, Sandown ran 900 meter races. Even for maidens.... Over the years the industry has become a short course sprinting game and as a result the shortage of chances to get a staying race going.
Not all dogs are suited to be sprinters, but what do you do when you have a dog (maiden) that you know wont win over 400 -500 but will go ok over 600 - 700 ? but there are no advertised events for them?

Rich.


Hayden Gilders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 783
Dogs 26 / Races 0

26 Dec 2019 04:59


 (1)
 (0)


Rich I understand where youíre coming from see Bendigo fields of 27th. Debutante was made reserve (likely to get a run and I really wish tconnections all the best) but the notion of paying all starters prize money down to last place- its junior football mentality - every one played well so they get a prize. And bottom up grading is surely rewarding mediocrity. But I suspect their are many in the industry who can identify with that some of whom perhaps are rewarded for the same attribute.



Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2691
Dogs 6 / Races 0

26 Dec 2019 07:50


 (3)
 (0)


Hayden,
Youíre a hard marker. Bottom up grading n paying p/m for all starters are good ideas, but not the norm. If 1st Prize is $1000, 8th isnít $1000 too ! The idea is good to keep stayers going. Theyíre entitled to a chance for some monies when they get a chance to race over more suitable ground. However, I understand your concerns about the heat in January.... Maybe try it four times a year..


Hayden Gilders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 783
Dogs 26 / Races 0

26 Dec 2019 12:33


 (1)
 (0)


Mark insincerity will get you no where. If grv were so keen on the advancement of distance racing why did they not allow for it at Traralgon ? why did they not include a distance at Horsham. mark the fact is that 30% of greyhounds shape up each week in their 3 ? 875 per win max. And you think itís good to say letís pick out the least popular distance nominated for (check the noms as I have) and say letís turn this into an extravigansia of distance racing.

Mark there is no direction no leadership no accountability. I think the new guy at grv has purchased a vacuum cleaner and a set of encyclopaedias from a couple of hawkers and this is what heís been sold, and Ballarat club with its ego(s) has got excited. But for the trainers (dogs) I wish them well If it proves to be successful, will it be offered to all other classes and distances,, will all distances races have parody with the sprints, will the laurel have the same stake money as the silver chief. these hawkers are quoting turnover and minimisation of injuries as reasons to increase distance racing, and a months free trials will fix all.
Mark I was at the Ballarat cup when James vandermar continually belittled Almana. Berisha as a dog that needed a Brady episode to win the final and laughed about the part time baker and his dog that in his view should not have made the final ( vandermars antics an embarrassments in them selves) but he made the final on his merits and got due reward for it which is more than what will happen here. And if you want to known what I really think just ask me. And just by the way lannigan won the sale cup with a dog that should have been charged with marring but got a warning. Wtf


Hayden Gilders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 783
Dogs 26 / Races 0

27 Dec 2019 11:09


 (0)
 (0)


Bendigo results today are interesting
1 debutante Alina placed 2nd beaten 10 lengths
Jamie Ennius trained the winner - heís a master at placing his dogs.
2nd race won by Rioli daw...? Darwin who looked alright as a winner by 8 or 9 lengths. A few dogs in the field actually increased their average losing margins , in fact there are a couple that have stats that show the further they race the further they loose by..
I remember reading an article by reg Kay in which he said that greyhound racing is one of the few sports that does not have a.b .& c class trainers.

I also remember the great P.A.W say there are many in the industry who ďcouldnít train a pig to be dirtyĒ

Check the results and you be the judge - bottom up and stake money for all?


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2691
Dogs 6 / Races 0

27 Dec 2019 21:58


 (0)
 (0)


Understand the above. If they canít get the distance they will need to drop back. If they donít they might get a Ďticketí, but Iím not judging any Ďrunsí because I havenít seen any races. Greyhounds often win by big margins. Well done to trainer for finding a suitable race to win.

There could be problems with Ďconditionsí of race and perhaps dog, not the idea of giving dogs a chance to compete over suitable ground for some. stewards to monitor and Where necessary, GRV to adjust the conditions of race.

Iím not in Victoria, so is it open grading for this type of racing ?

We have Pathways in NSW where Greyhounds with lowest points fill ten spots for a race. One sometimes stands out, but often itís too hard to pick on form. At least they can compete on level terms once in awhile and one will win once in awhile.. Itís not the norm and the concept has its problems.



Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2185
Dogs 11 / Races 9

28 Dec 2019 04:03


 (2)
 (0)


Mark, your quote of "Iím not in Victoria, so is it open grading for this type of racing ?" means little when graders do what they want.. Sandown tomorrow (Sunday) they had 6 nominations for maidens over 595, generally they would have had a race with the 6 dogs nominated. (they have done so in the past) 2 grade 7's nominated for same distance, so they threw them in what would have been a maiden race and called it 0-1 wins... And of course the 2 favorites are the grade 7's in what should have been a maiden race.


Brett Margerison
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 625
Dogs 12 / Races 0

28 Dec 2019 04:30


 (1)
 (0)


Richard Gray wrote:

Mark, your quote of "Iím not in Victoria, so is it open grading for this type of racing ?" means little when graders do what they want.. Sandown tomorrow (Sunday) they had 6 nominations for maidens over 595, generally they would have had a race with the 6 dogs nominated. (they have done so in the past) 2 grade 7's nominated for same distance, so they threw them in what would have been a maiden race and called it 0-1 wins... And of course the 2 favorites are the grade 7's in what should have been a maiden race.

100% Richard, this type of 'graders discretion' goes on far too often... If you are drawn in a race that you haven't nommed for you should have an option to scratch penalty free...


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2691
Dogs 6 / Races 0

28 Dec 2019 05:31


 (0)
 (0)


I understand the six maidens should have made a maiden race. I agree, but 0-1 wins is not a massive disadvantage surely? I agree, if you didnít nominate for the race you should be entitled to scratch. They canít put you in a race like a 0-6 wins up here unless you nominate for it.

Iím trying to make sense of your system and grading. We have similar concerns, but overall itís not too bad. Iím trying to make general comments. So, this particular race is not open to all comers?? It seems to me it is, but with bottom up grading?

We sometimes get a courtesy call from GRNSW about our nomination, which trainers appreciate as the authority tries to cater for all nominations.

Anyway, good luck.



Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2185
Dogs 11 / Races 9

28 Dec 2019 06:31


 (1)
 (0)


Mark, we have maidens, grade 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 and so on. Then there are restricted wins (when advertised) free for all's (except maidens) then mixed graded, special events My issue wasn't with your comment, but more having a go at our grading system.. Since when in this country can you win a maiden race, rise in grades, nominate your dog for a grade 7 and be drawn against maidens? (obviously why the grade 7 is favorite which in my opinion is not fair on all maidens nominated expecting to race against maidens) As for not being a big disadvantage,, first prize is $1,620... At the end of the day, it looks like the graders can invent a new grade at the drop of a hat...

Now, trying to stay "on topic" regarding "660M BOTTOM UP GRADING Ballarat" Maidens are not eligible for this event! (but grade 7's are) So now a grade 7 is OK to race against maidens in an "invented grade" but a maiden is unable to nominate in a race that a grade 7 can? I just don't get it...

Cheers.
Rich.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 18027
Dogs 14371 / Races 1818

28 Dec 2019 07:00


 (1)
 (0)


Mark Donohue wrote:

I understand the six maidens should have made a maiden race. I agree, but 0-1 wins is not a massive disadvantage surely? I agree, if you didnít nominate for the race you should be entitled to scratch. They canít put you in a race like a 0-6 wins up here unless you nominate for it.

Iím trying to make sense of your system and grading. We have similar concerns, but overall itís not too bad. Iím trying to make general comments. So, this particular race is not open to all comers?? It seems to me it is, but with bottom up grading?

We sometimes get a courtesy call from GRNSW about our nomination, which trainers appreciate as the authority tries to cater for all nominations.

Anyway, good luck.

In a staying race 0-2 is not a major disadvantage.

Either a dog can stay or it can't


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2691
Dogs 6 / Races 0

28 Dec 2019 07:52


 (0)
 (0)


Richard,
Up here, we have Mixed Stakes (0-2 wins) a race that is advertised with a condition (0-2 wins only). Itís been going on for 30 years. I donít have a problem with it. If trainer doesnít think dog is suited to the condition, he/she doesnít nominate and waits for a more suitable race such as a maiden race. If the authority is not putting on enough maidens, ring them up and voice your concerns.

In terms of this type of race, if maidens canít race then itís a condition. Perhaps they could amend it for next time e.g. maidens and G6-7 grades eligible, 0-2 wins, 0-4 wins, no city wins, etc




Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2185
Dogs 11 / Races 9

28 Dec 2019 07:58


 (0)
 (0)


I do agree Sandro,,,, my point is, when nominating for a maiden event, you would expect to be racing against maidens, Likewise when nominating a dog that has broken its maiden status, you would not expect to be placed in a field of maidens... (and start favorite) Also looking at your comment,,, then why are maidens unable to enter for a distance race where grades 7 and 6 can? (devils advocate mate, lol)

Rich




Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2185
Dogs 11 / Races 9

28 Dec 2019 08:02


 (1)
 (0)


Have no issue with that Mark,,, If I wanted to nominate for such a race,, that's great,,, but when the grader just "invents" a non advertised event... that gives me the shits.

posts 36page  1 2