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Unraced Broods V City winning Broods page  1 2 


Kevin Wright
Australia
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Posts 5587
Dogs 1 / Races 1

14 Sep 2020 00:30


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Can anyone name any UNRACED Greyhounds who produced
Group winners..

or
Champion..
Sire's and Broods ...


Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7259
Dogs 26 / Races 9

14 Sep 2020 00:47


 (1)
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Kevin Wright wrote:

Can anyone name any UNRACED Greyhounds who produced
Group winners..

or
Champion..
Sire's and Broods ...


CLICK HERE


Carole Brown
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 31779
Dogs 176 / Races 2

14 Sep 2020 00:52


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Our unraced broodie, Rockin' Along, produced Dalgetty, who apart from winning group races, including the Temlee, is also the second fastest race winning dog around the Meadows, in 29.42. She also produced other city winners.


Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 272
Dogs 12 / Races 49

14 Sep 2020 00:58


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Mick and Carole...what sort of ability did they have?


Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 18309
Dogs 14498 / Races 1816

14 Sep 2020 01:38


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Sorry no Group winners but a promising litter nonetheless

Hazy Babe

CLICK HERE
Has produced a promising pup called So Hazy, 25.90 @ Warragul

Also Spring Haze 22.52 at Warragul - 10wins out of 20

and looks like all of the litter have won races


Carole Brown
Australia
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Posts 31779
Dogs 176 / Races 2

14 Sep 2020 02:13


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Darren, she had average ability, but we had seasonal problems with her, so we just kept her for breeding. She had 3 litters, with her Stagger one being the best. Her pups won a total of 137 races between them, with also many placings, so we are quite proud of her, as I am sure Mick is with his girl, too.


Michael Barry
Australia
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Posts 7259
Dogs 26 / Races 9

14 Sep 2020 03:18


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Darren Leeson wrote:

Mick and Carole...what sort of ability did they have?

(chrissy) girl aloud , had terrific ability and was a week away from her first start at shepp,
a race incident at horsham seen her very promising brother cil dush entity PTS
it was decided there and then that she would never go to a race track again ,

the idea of breeding to spiral nakita in the first place was to get breeding females , and i could not see how a race career would make her a better breeding prospect infact i think it could have done the opposite,

her daughters to date that have been bred with have produced some nice racers at city and group level , (and of course some failures )

her fastest daughter from a repeat mating Zara's entity has pups now in pretraining from her first litter , (fernando bale) her second litter 7 months old to (barcia bale ) we kept 3

a third litter to (collision ) is planned for around Christmas

if i was younger and continuing breeding i would follow the unraced method ,when you breed them and rear them yourself its quite easy to get a handle on their ability within the litter



Paul Dicks
Australia
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Posts 8869
Dogs 110 / Races 252

14 Sep 2020 07:47


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Using a bitch that is proven to have chase and speed, is just another way of buying more tickets in the lottery that is breeding greyhounds. Just like, using proven sires, recreating historical nicks, rearing in the best environments, feeding quality food, giving plenty of attention, having good trainers etc. It doesn't guarantee success, it just increases the likelihood of it.


Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 272
Dogs 12 / Races 49

14 Sep 2020 08:29


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Carole Brown wrote:

Darren, she had average ability, but we had seasonal problems with her, so we just kept her for breeding. She had 3 litters, with her Stagger one being the best. Her pups won a total of 137 races between them, with also many placings, so we are quite proud of her, as I am sure Mick is with his girl, too.

Thanks Carole and Mick. Can I ask you guys what was it most about your girls that made you want to breed with them?

I’ve got a girl that most certainly had some ability on the race track, being city placed with a very good run home in town. Who used to trial very well...much better than she raced. However, she has a super temperament (just like her mum), nothing whatsoever fazes her...different environments and people...she’s simply non-fazed by it all and it’s that aspect of this girl that has me very keen to breed with her.

Cheers for the insight!



Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7259
Dogs 26 / Races 9

14 Sep 2020 08:52


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Darren Leeson wrote:

Carole Brown wrote:

Darren, she had average ability, but we had seasonal problems with her, so we just kept her for breeding. She had 3 litters, with her Stagger one being the best. Her pups won a total of 137 races between them, with also many placings, so we are quite proud of her, as I am sure Mick is with his girl, too.

Thanks Carole and Mick. Can I ask you guys what was it most about your girls that made you want to breed with them?

I’ve got a girl that most certainly had some ability on the race track, being city placed with a very good run home in town. Who used to trial very well...much better than she raced. However, she has a super temperament (just like her mum), nothing whatsoever fazes her...different environments and people...she’s simply non-fazed by it all and it’s that aspect of this girl that has me very keen to breed with her.

Cheers for the insight!


temperament is important , but more importantly is a killer instinct without it , don't expect it in offspring , (of course there will be some that don't inherit it , but most will in my experience

this trait can be picked up very early in your pups if you are a hands on rearer , that's if you want to pick a future brood without a racing career




Robert Hill
Australia
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Posts 32
Dogs 1 / Races 0

14 Sep 2020 09:01


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Aptly named Hidden assets.Has had some handy pups with the daughters now throwing some group pups. she was brilliant at blocking your way to get a pat ,that was the full extent of her ability.


Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 272
Dogs 12 / Races 49

14 Sep 2020 10:32


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Interesting you think that Mick. A sire definitely plays his part in a broods pups! You only need look at the iffy Love To Rock (5 starts 0-0-0)...she definitely had a motor...in one of her unplaced runs at Richmond she still ran 30.87. However, to the outcrossed hybrid vigour of SH Avatar she threw a sensational litter of hard chasing Matt Machine and Ex’s And Oh’s.

What this topic is showing and as this game is all about is having a crack!


Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7259
Dogs 26 / Races 9

14 Sep 2020 11:09


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Darren Leeson wrote:

Interesting you think that Mick. A sire definitely plays his part in a broods pups! You only need look at the iffy Love To Rock (5 starts 0-0-0)...she definitely had a motor...in one of her unplaced runs at Richmond she still ran 30.87. However, to the outcrossed hybrid vigour of SH Avatar she threw a sensational litter of hard chasing Matt Machine and Ex’s And Oh’s.

What this topic is showing and as this game is all about is having a crack!


agree Darren sire plays a major part , it took me a while to realize that only using proven sires certainly improves your % of success

even using proven sires there is still failures , but using unproven sires is nothing more than a raffle /lottery but it usually takes breeders to be burnt before they realize it ,, like i did



Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 18309
Dogs 14498 / Races 1816

14 Sep 2020 11:25


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Darren Leeson wrote:

Interesting you think that Mick. A sire definitely plays his part in a broods pups! You only need look at the iffy Love To Rock (5 starts 0-0-0)...she definitely had a motor...in one of her unplaced runs at Richmond she still ran 30.87. However, to the outcrossed hybrid vigour of SH Avatar she threw a sensational litter of hard chasing Matt Machine and Ex’s And Oh’s.

What this topic is showing and as this game is all about is having a crack!

Darren

Actually there were 7 in that litter and 5 were unnamed.

That is not a very good percentage even though the 2 named dogs were good dogs. I think SH Avatar would have had a fair bit to do with those 2.

The rest of her 29 or so pups that raced from her other 3 litters barely had a city winner among them, maybe one bitch by Barcia Bale I remember won at Albion Park on a Monday night after previously racing in Darwin

I remember seeing LTR at Triple Crown Lodge, she was a lovely bitch, but as Mick said, she had the ability but didn't have killer instinct and it followed in most of her pups.


Toby Weekes
Australia
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Posts 99
Dogs 41 / Races 0

14 Sep 2020 13:09


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Pretty Fancy , still my preference is a fast well bred race bitch , is exceptions but not to often enough for me to experiment , but this 1 worked for me.


Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 272
Dogs 12 / Races 49

14 Sep 2020 13:26


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Sandro, interesting her best result was to a full outcross. Admittedly as you say for only 2 excellent racers. But, there could be any number of factors such as were the litter split up reared at multiple locations etc etc...in general the number of top offspring aspect is beyond human control. All a breeder can try and do is get a top of the tree result like a Matt Machine. Especially from a brood such as Love To Rock.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 18309
Dogs 14498 / Races 1816

14 Sep 2020 22:45


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Darren Leeson wrote:

Sandro, interesting her best result was to a full outcross. Admittedly as you say for only 2 excellent racers. But, there could be any number of factors such as were the litter split up reared at multiple locations etc etc...in general the number of top offspring aspect is beyond human control. All a breeder can try and do is get a top of the tree result like a Matt Machine. Especially from a brood such as Love To Rock.

Interesting you say that, so you think that 36 pups to get 2 top ones is a good percentage for the industry as a whole?

You are only making assumptions that they may have been poorly reared.

And 5 unnamed out of 7 pups from the SH Avatar litter...mmmm!!




David Brasch
Australia
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Posts 813
Dogs 1954 / Races 9692

14 Sep 2020 22:57


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Here is an article written in 2012 by GEORGE FARRUGIA (owner of Striker Light and True Detective). It is entirely based on FACTS.

Want to breed a winner at The Meadows?
Mum’s the word.

I will preface this story by settling two things. Firstly, there are – as is the case with almost everything in life – exceptions to every rule. Secondly, I am acutely aware there are many different elements involved – including an ounce of luck and a few miscues – when trying to produce a city-class chaser.
What is indisputable, however, are the statistics that arise when looking at the type of dam that produces a city winner at The Meadows, or any other highly-rated metro track for that matter.
Are the stats I have compiled in this story going to reinvent the wheel? Of course they won’t. Are they often ignored by breeders when choosing the right bitch to breed from? Sometimes.
At the end of six months of Saturday night racing at The Meadows in 2012 – a track home to nine events worth at least $100,000 and none worth under $5000 to the winner - 297 races have been run and won.
Of those 297 winners, a whopping 221 came from dams that were also victorious on metropolitan tracks. What I qualified to be a ‘metro win’ are first-placed efforts at The Meadows, Sandown, Wentworth Park (Saturday), Albion Park (Thursday), Angle Park (Thursday) or Cannington (Saturday).
Of the remaining 76 winners, 51 were from dams who won on country or provincial tracks – usually bitches with good speed but little stamina - and only 25 came from dams who were either unraced or could not manage a win.
Don’t bother reaching for a calculator. Almost 75 per cent of city winners at The Meadows on a Saturday night are from city-winning dams. They are big numbers. Stats can be construed to make any argument sound valid, but there’s no hiding behind these figures. What’s probably equally as pertinent is that less than 10 per cent of the 297 winners at The Meadows came from unraced bitches or those who could not manage a win.
Interestingly, the slant towards city-winning dams does not become more compelling when we put the microscope on dogs with a little more ability than your stock-standard metro chaser. There have been 40 greyhounds compete in the six Group races over a range of distances at The Meadows in the first six months of 2012. Of those, 29 come from dams that also had metro wins, which converts to a similarly impressive 73 per cent.
As I mentioned earlier, there are many factors involved when trying to breed a city winner, but a more important starting point for new breeders you will not find.
Now for some more misnomers occasionally thrown up by the misinformed.
One theory constantly delivered is that bitches that had a large number of race starts aren’t likely to throw city-winning stock. I think the word hogwash is suitable here. A healthy number of the city winners researched from The Meadows this season weren’t confined to bitches that were lightly raced.
There are many examples to expel the belief, none more so than GRV Hall Of Famer Floodgate, a female inducted for her prowess as a brood bitch. She had 93 starts, and, more importantly, showcased her ability with 25 wins, many of those at the top level.
Surely how a bitch is looked after during her race career – no matter how long - is far more important.
Naysayers will also tell you the figures mentioned earlier are favourable to metro-winning dams because most people only breed from city-class mums, thus making the stats nothing more than predictable.
Recent research suggests they could not be further from the truth.
In January 2012, breeders from Victoria and New South Wales helped whelp down a total of 126 litters. Of those, 51 were out of metropolitan winners, meaning just 40 per cent of those litters were from city-winning dams - well below the strike rate mentioned earlier. Of the remaining 75 litters, 62 were from dams who won on country or provincial tracks and 13 were either unraced or without a win.



Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 272
Dogs 12 / Races 49

14 Sep 2020 23:01


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But Sandro, you’re also not acknowledging were they good sire choices away from the SH Avatar litter? And did that factor play a part in the wastage.

There are so many variables in this game that play their part in ‘wastage’. You can’t make such a generalised statement. As we all know champion faultless bitches never produce even a single quality race dog as well.

It’s certainly a debate worth having, but it’s a fine balance, because how many champions and breed shapers were from moderate to very average racers...Temlee, Waverley Supreme, Princess Diro (and Glen Aussie), Brother Fox, Acacia Park, Rapid Journey etc none of which were from quality racers...



Deborah May
Australia
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Posts 141
Dogs 4 / Races 0

14 Sep 2020 23:05


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‘Stresa’. Produced multiple group finalist and group 1 winning bitch Daydream. Also, Bit Stressed, multiple group finalist. Daydream went on to become one of the best producers of her time with her offspring earning in excess of $1.6 million.
Not a bad effort considering it all started with an unraced bitch.

posts 37page  1 2