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Stephen Fishwick Ireland (Verified User) Posts 122 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 May 2016 10:18
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Its not factual dave unfortunately. It was also on 3 month ago. Same old
Gerry Gorman United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 228 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 May 2016 10:32
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I would like to think that the information I posted is helpful given the current situation and claims that Pentobarbital does not improve performance as others have stated apparently from authoritative sources. My comment on the meat is not difficult to understand , there is advice from the greyhound authorities here and in G.B. not to use meat from sources that have resulted in positives if indeed, to be fair to the supplier ,their meat was the cause . I would also add that I have posted several times before on issues such as micro dosage of testosterone and E.P.O. which has been rife in many other sports etc. My name is Gerard Gorman , I have been racing greyhounds for over 50 years , I love this Sport and I feel entitled to view my concerns on this forum , That's who I am if that answers your question .
Stephen Fishwick Ireland (Verified User) Posts 122 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 May 2016 10:35
Sorry Alison , according to a study carried out by the British Journal of Anaesthesia ,repeated dosage of Pentobarbital improved reaction times on treated rats as opposed to a control group , they had faster response times and made more premature responses than the control group and there was also improved impusivity.Regarding the pentobarbital in meat , my only comment is that it seems too consistent to be true . I would also refer to your own comment that the igb and gbgb say not to use it , does this mean all meat or meat that has had positives and if this is the case it would seem foolhardy to continue to use suppliers of this meat .
You seem a little agitated with Gerry's post Mr Fishwick is it touching a nerve, I cant help but notice anyone who posts factual information on pentobarbital yourself and Alison lose the plot and insult people over their comments, you are both out of order condemning people who are only looking for honest answers to the pentobarbital meat scandal after the IGB issued Guidelines on feeding this type of meat to racing greyhounds and if caught cannot be used as a defence. Simple as ABC IMO.
Dave: I have never insulted anyone, it's not in my personality. All i have ever done is try to show proven facts what you lot don't want to see. You are a right one to talk about insulting people IMO..
Anthony Ronan Ireland (Verified User) Posts 221 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 May 2016 12:04
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maybe the owners of thesed dogs should be telling their trainer not to be giving thear dogs rotten dosed beef from sick or dying animals. it would save a lot of trouble ifand when they do. just the opinion of a lott of people
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 10 May 2016 12:33
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anthony ronan wrote:
maybe the owners of thesed dogs should be telling their trainer not to be giving thear dogs rotten dosed beef from sick or dying animals. it would save a lot of trouble ifand when they do. just the opinion of a lott of people
100% Anthony,owners have to take responsibility for their dogs,and really any owner that leaves a dog(let alone a top class one) in the care of a "trainer" that allows this stuff getting into the dog isnt doing the best by their hound imo... IMO if any of us mere mortals got lucky and had one these top top dogs it wouldnt be exposed to crap meat to ever Possibly contract this pentobarital and i know if i had such a dog with a "trainer" and dog returned positive it wouldnt be there the next day....
Anthony Ronan Ireland (Verified User) Posts 221 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 May 2016 12:58
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no responsible owner could support someone who takes there money and feeds there dog contaminated beef. the owners have tobe held responsible along with the trainer.bad beef 50c good beef 150c soa difference of 12euro a week. does not make sence
Charlie Deery Ireland (Verified User) Posts 233 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 May 2016 14:41
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michael de ward wrote:
anthony ronan wrote:
maybe the owners of thesed dogs should be telling their trainer not to be giving thear dogs rotten dosed beef from sick or dying animals. it would save a lot of trouble ifand when they do. just the opinion of a lott of people
100% Anthony,owners have to take responsibility for their dogs,and really any owner that leaves a dog(let alone a top class one) in the care of a "trainer" that allows this stuff getting into the dog isnt doing the best by their hound imo... IMO if any of us mere mortals got lucky and had one these top top dogs it wouldnt be exposed to crap meat to ever Possibly contract this pentobarital and i know if i had such a dog with a "trainer" and dog returned positive it wouldnt be there the next day....
no responsible owner could support someone who takes there money and feeds there dog contaminated beef. the owners have tobe held responsible along with the trainer.bad beef 50c good beef 150c soa difference of 12euro a week. does not make sence
Anthony, the quality or meat vs contamination was discussed many months ago, the meat is not rotten as you say and the 150c meat is nothing but fat and gristle. No one can 100% guarantee what they are eating let alone feeding to their dogs.
Let it be noted that the bitch ran 28 races last year from January through to Dec, she was tested on many occasions as she reached many big finals ( this is the norm in big races and she was not singled out ) On one occasion in the whole year she was fed meat that had traces of a substance used to euthanize the animal.She tested clear on every occasion afterwards. If the trainer at the time believed that the meat he was feeding was clear and found out later that it was not, then its too late to go back. I'm sure after finding out the meat was contaminated that the trainer did change his food, but he can't go back in time to change what has already happened unfortunately.The nature of the drug detected does not improve performance, it does not mask detection of other drugs and it would not be intentionally administered to a animal unless with the intention of euthanasia.
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 10 May 2016 16:19
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Alison Coxon wrote:
Anthony, the quality or meat vs contamination was discussed many months ago, the meat is not rotten as you say and the 150c meat is nothing but fat and gristle. No one can 100% guarantee what they are eating let alone feeding to their dogs.
Let it be noted that the bitch ran 28 races last year from January through to Dec, she was tested on many occasions as she reached many big finals ( this is the norm in big races and she was not singled out ) On one occasion in the whole year she was fed meat that had traces of a substance used to euthanize the animal.She tested clear on every occasion afterwards. If the trainer at the time believed that the meat he was feeding was clear and found out later that it was not, then its too late to go back. I'm sure after finding out the meat was contaminated that the trainer did change his food, but he can't go back in time to change what has already happened unfortunately.The nature of the drug detected does not improve performance, it does not mask detection of other drugs and it would not be intentionally administered to a animal unless with the intention of euthanasia.
Alison,he must have kept a bag or 2 of the "bad beef" for 5 or 6 weeks as had another positive at Tralee 22nd Dec... IMO Owners giving their backing,and not removing dogs from trainers with multiple positive tests against them are doing as much damage as the trainers who are at it.. Whether people like it or not and rightly or wrongly any and all dogs reputations (that are under such trainers care) are tainted.....
Gerry Gorman United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 228 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 May 2016 17:05
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Alison the information I posted would appear to contradict your repeated assertions that according to your expert sources Pentobarbital does not improve performance . I had also posted on March 2nd another source stating something similar . Other people are in agreement with you and have made similar comments , I would simply ask you and them to take on board the fact that there is evidence in clinical trials that pentobarbital can improve performance . No insult was taken Alison , I have read your many posts in the past and found you to be a person genuinely interested in greyhound welfare .
Joe Mc Gorrey United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 1292 Dogs 2 / Races 0 10 May 2016 17:19
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i wouldnt go as far to blame the owner of the dog being caught with anything in the system its the trainer that needs the wrap as he are she is looking after the dog in there care but i have to say that gerry gorman is 100percent right in what he stated above alison your bitch is one in a million she can run but this hold thing about being tested for pentobarial has made alot of people think twice about her and others that were running well till they were tested and show up pentobarial
Anthony, the quality or meat vs contamination was discussed many months ago, the meat is not rotten as you say and the 150c meat is nothing but fat and gristle. No one can 100% guarantee what they are eating let alone feeding to their dogs.
Let it be noted that the bitch ran 28 races last year from January through to Dec, she was tested on many occasions as she reached many big finals ( this is the norm in big races and she was not singled out ) On one occasion in the whole year she was fed meat that had traces of a substance used to euthanize the animal.She tested clear on every occasion afterwards. If the trainer at the time believed that the meat he was feeding was clear and found out later that it was not, then its too late to go back. I'm sure after finding out the meat was contaminated that the trainer did change his food, but he can't go back in time to change what has already happened unfortunately.The nature of the drug detected does not improve performance, it does not mask detection of other drugs and it would not be intentionally administered to a animal unless with the intention of euthanasia.
Alison,he must have kept a bag or 2 of the "bad beef" for 5 or 6 weeks as had another positive at Tralee 22nd Dec... IMO Owners giving their backing,and not removing dogs from trainers with multiple positive tests against them are doing as much damage as the trainers who are at it.. Whether people like it or not and rightly or wrongly any and all dogs reputations (that are under such trainers care) are tainted.....
Re : 22nd Dec positive, this was before the first positives were revealed on February 8th, therefore the trainer saw no reason to change his meat before this time.
Alison the information I posted would appear to contradict your repeated assertions that according to your expert sources Pentobarbital does not improve performance . I had also posted on March 2nd another source stating something similar . Other people are in agreement with you and have made similar comments , I would simply ask you and them to take on board the fact that there is evidence in clinical trials that pentobarbital can improve performance . No insult was taken Alison , I have read your many posts in the past and found you to be a person genuinely interested in greyhound welfare .
There is no evidence proven that it enhances performance. It certainly didn't in our girl as it was one of the few occasions she didn't not show her best form,
i wouldnt go as far to blame the owner of the dog being caught with anything in the system its the trainer that needs the wrap as he are she is looking after the dog in there care but i have to say that gerry gorman is 100percent right in what he stated above alison your bitch is one in a million she can run but this hold thing about being tested for pentobarial has made alot of people think twice about her and others that were running well till they were tested and show up pentobarial
Joe: Sorry not sure what you mean. She was tested on many occasions not just this once, and has ran well many times since the positive test, which was probably her worse performance of the year. She was tested twice during the christmas oaks which she won in 27.94 and clocked 29.34 for 550 in the easter cup before breaking in season both of which were ftoy
I will not post again on this topic, i'm tired of going around in circles trying to show the truth and going over the same things again and again. All evidence on the substance has already been provided many months back. And all questions have been answered. The facts are that the truth doesn't hurt at all, the truth never hurt anyone, we can handle the truth. What hurts is lies and false accusations. If you can't beat someone then accuse them. The thing is in a fair and just society the truth normally comes out in the end. So my girl had one bad meal, she didn't win the race, she didn't improve her performance, so get over it and move on to your next victim.
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 10 May 2016 18:23
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Alison Coxon wrote:
joe mc gorrey wrote:
i wouldnt go as far to blame the owner of the dog being caught with anything in the system its the trainer that needs the wrap as he are she is looking after the dog in there care but i have to say that gerry gorman is 100percent right in what he stated above alison your bitch is one in a million she can run but this hold thing about being tested for pentobarial has made alot of people think twice about her and others that were running well till they were tested and show up pentobarial
Joe: Sorry not sure what you mean. She was tested on many occasions not just this once, and has ran well many times since the positive test, which was probably her worse performance of the year. She was tested twice during the christmas oaks which she won in 27.94 and clocked 29.34 for 550 in the easter cup before breaking in season both of which were ftoy
It's queer she tested clear in xmas oaks when you stated above the beef supplier wasnt changed to 8th feb.... Alison,does the bitch kennel-up ok??
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 May 2016 18:44
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Alison Coxon wrote:
anthony ronan wrote:
no responsible owner could support someone who takes there money and feeds there dog contaminated beef. the owners have tobe held responsible along with the trainer.bad beef 50c good beef 150c soa difference of 12euro a week. does not make sence
Anthony, the quality or meat vs contamination was discussed many months ago, the meat is not rotten as you say and the 150c meat is nothing but fat and gristle. No one can 100% guarantee what they are eating let alone feeding to their dogs.
Let it be noted that the bitch ran 28 races last year from January through to Dec, she was tested on many occasions as she reached many big finals ( this is the norm in big races and she was not singled out ) On one occasion in the whole year she was fed meat that had traces of a substance used to euthanize the animal.She tested clear on every occasion afterwards. If the trainer at the time believed that the meat he was feeding was clear and found out later that it was not, then its too late to go back. I'm sure after finding out the meat was contaminated that the trainer did change his food, but he can't go back in time to change what has already happened unfortunately.The nature of the drug detected does not improve performance, it does not mask detection of other drugs and it would not be intentionally administered to a animal unless with the intention of euthanasia.
Can anyone supply the name and phone number of the meat factory the trainer was using at the time of positive samples? I have already been in touch with a number of meat suppliers and they are all willing to stand up at any open meeting and give their opinions and thoughts.
Something that needs pointing out here, the igb test both in the Limerick lab and in the UK. It is a proven fact the the test done in the UK pick up a lot more than those carried out by the farce that is the igb lab.
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