The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.
Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.
If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.
In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.
Most of the story will be familiar to greyhound owners but the compilation illustrates the lack of respect in political circles for the greyhound industry. On Wednesday December 14 2016 we had a Dail debate on The Horse and Greyhound Fund.
Minister Doyle still clings to ridiculous notion that the greyhound industry employs 10,500 people. Not a whimper from Fianna Fail across the chamber. The decline of the greyhound industry continues and nobody seems to care, or certainly not care enough to do anything about it. The Indecon Review has been vaunted as the solution to all our problems, our Bible. There appears to be notion that Indecon is infallible and should not be questioned. In reality, The Indecon Review is not a very complex document. It is largely a compilation of data taken from the annual reports 2006 to 2013, all data that is freely available to everyone. It gives broad recommendations but certainly does not go into the detail that is required to turn the industry around. Indecon did identify that the Board of IGB was suffering a skills gap but one did not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that. Now we had an official document that stated that the Board did not have the ability to run the greyhound industry. This statement alone probably justified the 58,000 fee that Indecon received for writing the report. The Indecon Review also made some questionable statements, Indecon has no evidence of any deficiency in the laboratory or of its staff and indeed the data shows that the laboratory has been very active in testing for prohibited substances. It is difficult to understand how Indecon could have missed the multiple shortcomings of the IGB laboratory that were subsequently exposed by Professor Tim Morris. Indecon failed to mention the issue of illegal AI even though they had received submissions on the practise and should have been aware of the serious potential for litigation. Indecon suggest increasing the Board size to 9. Surely the quality of the people on the Board is far more important than the number of people on the Board. The Irish greyhound industry will require huge changes if it is to survive. The CEO will find it difficult to push these changes through on a 7 person Board, 9 may be worse. GRV, the most successful greyhound industry in the world has a 5 person Board. Some greyhound owners are calling for more greyhound people to be appointed. The Board of 2011 had all greyhound people and has got us to where we are now. Historically greyhound people on the Board take a more parochial view of the industry and will make decisions to suit their local track as opposed to the industry at large. Board members are prohibited from owning greyhounds, the practise of putting dogs in wives, husbands or kids names should not be tolerated. Recent appointments seem to have been better, Mr Colm Gaynor acquitted himself well at the Ag Committee meeting, but 3 of the skills gap members that remain have nothing to offer the industry. The IGB breached procurement rules when they negotiated an exclusive drinks contract. The Board member who allowed themselves to become embroiled in the drinks contract still operates under a shadow. Indecon said that Harolds Cross must be sold. It is peculiar how Indecon named just Harolds Cross for closure, why not Youghal? Waterford, Cork and Clonmel all nearby. Why close Harolds Cross which gets good crowds and rent a track in Newbridge? There is a far more compelling argument for closing Shelbourne Park and continuing racing in Harolds Cross. The portrayal of Shelbourne as the Mecca of the greyhound world by The GNM is laughable. IGB has 18 tracks but pays out about 25% of total prize money in Shelbourne Park Indecon also advocate a breeding incentive. A breeding incentive will not dupe a breeder if they cannot sell the pups. If the price of dogs was good there would be no need for a breeding incentive. Indecon offers little detail on the issue of animal welfare even though Animal Welfare groups have been central to the closure of greyhound industries in multiple jurisdictions. How can the Irish Greyhound industry be rescued? We have heard IGB explain that the greyhound industry is a complex industry and that normal rules do not apply. This is total nonsense. The greyhound industry is no different to any other business. You supply a product or a service at a cost and standard that consumers are willing to pay for the said product or service. The price achieved for the goods or service must cover the cost of production, overheads, R&D etc. This product or service will need to be delivered in a manner that complies with various regulation and conditions. How is this any different from running a restaurant, a tradesman, a dress maker, an accountant etc etc? Normally a business will identify market requirements and suppliers will have to produce a product that the customers demand. The Irish greyhound industry has taken a novel approach to its business. The suppliers, in this case The IGB, greyhound owners and bookmakers decide what they want to supply and then foist this product on customers. But the problem is that nobody is buying what the IGB is producing. We see some tracks running up to 30% sprint races even though they are of little interest to punters. The number of 4 and 5 dog races is growing and again this reduces betting interest. We see many races decided by haphazard bumping at the first bend, this is a welfare issue but also makes the event less attractive for betting. The IGB has the luxury of not having to worry that nobody is buying their product as Minister Doyle will lodge 300,000 of tax payers money in the bank account every week regardless of what law they break or how many customers turn up at the tracks. The much hyped Greyhound Forum is a case in point. All the stake holders are in attendance to put forward their tuppence worth. Everyone is trying to grab as much as possible of the shrinking taxpayer funded pie. Has anyone thought about where the industry will be when the pie disappears? The industry needs to prepare for that day. Minister Andrew Doyle is going to introduce legislation in 2017 that is supposed to save the industry. Appointments to the Control Committee are going to be taken from the hands of the Board. This is a necessary move with this Board. However, if the Minister is questioning the integrity of his Board to make these appointments maybe he needs to reconsider the suitability of these people to even be sitting on the Board. The Minister will probably put limits on the length of time that members can serve on the Board. But he already has the authority to remove Board members so why does he need legislation to force him if he thinks these people need to be removed. How does the Minister propose to deal with the FOI legislation that IGB ignores? How does the Minister propose to deal with the recommendations of The Agriculture Committee which have all been ignored? Has the Minister any control over the IGB? The IGB has been dismissive of welfare groups and is now paying the price. Sponsors are walking away and we saw where the recently organised boycott of the student night in Limerick left the track virtually empty. The IGB needs to be leaders in greyhound welfare, tracks need to be made safer. The IGB Welfare Officer needs to engage with the Welfare Groups, reply to their correspondence and act on their concerns. Euthanasia of greyhounds may still be legal but it has now become morally unacceptable. The industry will have to adjust to breeding the number of dogs that can be rehomed. The current prize money distribution structure is flawed as it encourages breeding large numbers to try unearth the special dog. This was the mistake that was made in NSW and the huge wastage numbers were unacceptable to the general public. Unsurprisingly the board of IGB has failed to learn from the mistakes of others and continues to push for increased prize money for premier events. The Irish Greyhound Industry has a difficult journey ahead if it is to survive. If Jesus Christ came down to Earth he could not save the industry while the current Chairman is in place. The first step in the journey for survival must be taken by Minister Doyle, heretofore he has been found wanting.
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 20 Dec 2016 22:50
(0)
(0)
WADA-accredited laboratories determine a test is positive for morphine when the level of morphine in the urine is greater than 1.3[1] micrograms/mL. In most cases, consumption of poppy seeds in foods will not cause a positive doping test, but it may be possible to exceed the morphine threshold by eating foods with poppy seeds.
This is for human athletes and not greyhounds.
USADA cannot predict the amount of poppy seeds you can eat and still be below the testing threshold set by WADA, nor can USADA predict how long morphine or morphine metabolites from poppy seeds will stay in your system. The most conservative approach would be to avoid poppy seeds in the lead up to, and during, competitions .
People should read the last sentence. No more excuses.
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 21 Dec 2016 14:07
(0)
(0)
EXTERNAL LINK The IGB maintain they are working very closely with the GBGB therefore they should follow the GBGB Disciplinary committee hearing procedures and publish the full facts of all hearings and issue proper fines instead of the rubbish we read from this current control committee. Some very interesting cases going back a few months.
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Jan 2017 11:55
(0)
(0)
The chairman still says we do not have a drug problem, 12 months have passed without any hearings, the puppy derby results never published, derby results never published yet half the country have been made aware of the positives, time this was cleaned up once and for all.
Tom Flanagan United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 35 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Jan 2017 12:47
(0)
(0)
grey2k the worlds largest greyhound protection organisation what a load of bull shit
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Jan 2017 21:32
(0)
(0)
In all honesty our drug problems have only become worse since this appointment, we now read that from January 2017 the GBGB are to test all Irish dogs that go to the UK to race, this is a very embarrassing situation from an Irish perspective therefore we require answers from the IGBs head of Compliance as to why this has been allowed to happen under her watch.
(Edited by Admin)
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 17 Jan 2017 15:04
(0)
(0)
It has being going on for long enough now and still the majority of greyhound people are happy to sit back and SAY/DO NOTHING and watch the greyhound industry go down the drain, How can our industry survive if you continue to put up with this shambolic behaviour from the IGB, Unknown to the majority of stakeholders out there we are heading towards meltdown very fast, We have a board who have no principles, ignore/break their own rules and regulations constantly , totally ignore the Comptroller/Auditor General regarding filing their accounts on time, telling blatant lies to members of the PAC committee and Agricultural committee, No paper trail of the limerick build [FRAUD] Don't bother their arshes going out to find sponsorship to stay afloat [they don't need to they get 16 million p/year from the government] they hire people who are only interested in their own well being, The IGB have blown millions of tax payers money and nothing to show for it, when they do finally publish the 2015 accounts you will all see the great Job those incompetent individuals are doing for this industry, We were told by the CEO and the chairman that we do not have a drug problem that only a very small minority of people are using drugs on their greyhounds, How wrong they are on this one, and don't they know it, IMO they have covered up more positive samples than the Russian Olympians and it is time they were removed before DR Brady starts closing down your local tracks then you all might have something to speak about. Please sign the petition if you want our industry to survive.
Mark Anthony O Grady Ireland (Verified User) Posts 88 Dogs 0 / Races 0 17 Jan 2017 20:35
(0)
(0)
Hi Dave, firstly I would like to say that you have my total support in relation to your views on the current situation, the state of our sport. We are certainly on the cusp of something significant however is it the sorry end or a bright new beginning.
I'm not entirely sure you are accurate saying that "the majority of people are happy to sit back". I would say that the majority of people Involved in our fine sport are anything but happy to sit back. I think the reality is that many greyhound folk are ordinary decent people who simply just do not know how to go about tackling the issues. The issues are almost too big and overwhelming for most to even contemplate what sort of action that they can personally take.
I think that a change of mindset is required, the idea that every vote counts and every voice counts. At the moment a lot of people believe that they themselves can't make a difference.
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 17 Jan 2017 20:53
(0)
(0)
Mark , you are correct in what you say, Ordinary Decent People, but unfortunately they are the ones who are being treated like something that sticks on the sole of your shoe and the cheats walk away every time and get rewards for being dishonest, we all have to waken up sometime and that time is now if we don't speak we wont be heard, you say we are on the cusp of something, that something is the wrong end of Dr Bradys plans, redundancies are coming and tracks are going to be closed all because the IGB fkd up, shame on them all.
Mark Anthony O Grady Ireland (Verified User) Posts 88 Dogs 0 / Races 0 17 Jan 2017 21:59
(0)
(0)
You say that if we don't speak we won't be heard. A way has to be figured out to give all of the good men, women and children in our sport a voice. At the moment there is no real way for them to be heard. Many of them have no clue how to communicate their anger effectively, to whom should they express their desire for change? How do we get everyone to pull together? Many won't even see this type of dialogue as they don't have pc's, smart phones or know how to send an email in some cases. I'm not wishing to degrade anyone by the way but in many instances all people know about greyhound racing in Ireland is by what they read through the Sporting Press!!!
What is the way forward?
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 18 Jan 2017 21:36
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 29 Jan 2017 09:52
(0)
(0)
This Petition Regarding Positive Samples was started on the 9th Jan 2014 little over 3 years ago, My God who would have thought that an issue so important to the survival of an industry would have fallen on deaf ears Very little has changed in the way of Transparency/integrity since the 9th of Jan 2014 although the IGB now publish SOME yes only SOME of their Analytical Findings Due to the Trainers names attached to those findings, months will pass before the IGB decide to publish a trainers name in case it damages the reputation of our industry, its too late to start worrying about the industrys reputation as the IGB have made sure that we have no reputation left, Our partners in the UK have gone to the extent of publishing a statement stating all Irish greyhounds must comply with their testing regime and must be tested before they are allowed to run in any UK event, this is an absolute disgrace on the IGBs behalf and for this reason alone the Minister should remove those responsible for allowing this to happen , if our testing methods in Ireland were as strict as the UK s those measures would never have come into play. Notices were issued Public Notices for all participants regarding the feeding of bread which might contain poppy seeds , [MORPHINE] this also fell on deaf ears as the board introduced a threshold for Morphine after they were made aware of a trainers positive sample for [MORPHINE] the IGB claimed they were following other Jurisdictions, bull shit no other jurisdiction has a threshold for MORPHINE, The IGB also issued guidelines on the feeding of ABP Knacker meat which might contain residues and produce a positive sample which cannot be used as an excuse at any hearing, more bull shit, no one took any notice of those guidelines only to use the knacker meat to their advantage which will be highlighted and brought to the publics attention in due course, Some of those so called BIG trainers have multiple Positive Samples pending over 2 years some are also connected to the control committee who are there to oversee our DRUG Problem, while this major conflict of interest is allowed to continue there will all ways be suspicions ,[Shame on the Minister in Charge] for doing nothing and allowing this corruption to continue. The small greyhound owners/breeders are disgusted with the way they have been treated by the IGB and the drug cheats , they have been taken for granted time & time again used as box fillers to compete against drug fuelled dogs belonging to the so called top trainers Shame on you all, The sad fact of the above is that Decent greyhound folk have walked away with nothing from greyhound racing and continue to do so due to the total incompetence from the people who have creamed the finances /bankrupt and destroyed an industry, Another Sad FACT is once all the small tracks are gone and the IGB have in some way balanced the books the only ones that will be left racing greyhounds and making a living from the sport will be the DRUG CHEATS the people who are responsible for demoralising & destroying an entire industry through pure greed and self-satisfaction Sad but TRUE.
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 24 Feb 2017 07:03
(0)
(0)
Procaine has come back in to play in Januarys findings, when will this control committee start dealing with the offenders who have multiple positives, the back log is multiplying and no response from control committee, February 28 primetime will paint a very bad picture of our industry and doping amongst other damaging material.
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Feb 2017 20:35
(0)
(0)
The Irish Greyhound Boards programme to enhance integrity in the sport has been significantly strengthened through a major upgrading of its laboratory testing infrastructure. The Laboratory in Limerick this week commissioned a new state of the art analytical system that allows for the detection of substances, including anabolic steroids, at very low levels in samples taken from greyhounds. The new top of the range equipment belongs to the triple-quadrupole liquid chromatographymass spectrometry (LCMS) class of systems. It is very sensitive allowing for the detection of drugs such as anabolic steroids which may have been administered a considerable time before the greyhound was sampled and thus have very low levels of residues remaining in the sample. It will, for example, greatly improve the laboratorys ability to detect metabolites of the anabolic steroid Stanozolol in samples from greyhounds
We have been fed lie after lie from this board of incompetent failures, 400k for this new machine ???? we were told by the outgoing CEO that the IGB can test for stan, all lies.
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 07 Mar 2017 06:43
(0)
(0)
A busy time for Control Committee in Feb, Pentobarbital positives earned a nice few for the IGB it pays to bring your barrister in some cases, but some think they don't need barristers and take their chance, 200 fines imposed it must be cheaper without bringing them.
Chris Houlding United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 929 Dogs 10 / Races 3 07 Mar 2017 15:12
(0)
(0)
I have a couple of questions re these positives.
1) When the prizemoney is forfeited, and say the greyhound in question has won, does the dog that came second and was cheated out of its first place collect the winners purse.
2) As a prospective purchaser how can I find out whether a dog has had a proven positive finding.
3) I also note that dogs that have been sold and changed their name do not come up on the IGB site under their original name. Surely the original and any subsequent names should be cross referenced to allow for full transparency.
Would be grateful if anyone had answer to all or some of these queries.
Robert Hewett United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 169 Dogs 0 / Races 0 07 Mar 2017 16:19
(0)
(0)
ROBERT HEWETT wrote:
Just a question when a trainer/owner's dog has a positive test and prize money is forfeited where does that money go.?
Asked this but got No answers.
Susan White United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 148 Dogs 1 / Races 0 07 Mar 2017 16:32
(0)
(0)
ROBERT HEWETT wrote:
ROBERT HEWETT wrote:
Just a question when a trainer/owner's dog has a positive test and prize money is forfeited where does that money go.?
Asked this but got No answers.
The igb Christmas party
Laurence Lee Ireland (Verified User) Posts 507 Dogs 2 / Races 0 07 Mar 2017 16:50
(0)
(0)
The IGB keep it unlike HRI which the next placed horse receives it.
Dave Cunningham Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2081 Dogs 0 / Races 0 07 Mar 2017 20:51
(0)
(0)
chris houlding wrote:
I have a couple of questions re these positives.
1) When the prizemoney is forfeited, and say the greyhound in question has won, does the dog that came second and was cheated out of its first place collect the winners purse.
2) As a prospective purchaser how can I find out whether a dog has had a proven positive finding.
3) I also note that dogs that have been sold and changed their name do not come up on the IGB site under their original name. Surely the original and any subsequent names should be cross referenced to allow for full transparency.
Would be grateful if anyone had answer to all or some of these queries.
Forfeited prize money automatically SHOULD go to 2nd place dog and so fourth, but the igb do not inform owners of this , it is up to owners to chase the IGB for their prize money, strange but true.
Regarding proven positive findings, IGB were asked if this can be printed on dogs race card and also on greyhound search so any prospective buyer checking up dogs could see if there were any positive findings against that dogs name, AGAIN nothing done to protect buyers.
Dogs that have been sold and their names changed SHOULD automatically come up as AKA ???? new name shown and any positive findings listed on dogs card or when you go into greyhound search all information should be there for prospective buyers but again this fell on deaf ears , the board do not know what Transparency means.
If we had a proper transparent board and system in place none of those questions would have to be asked, time for change IMO.
Do you have questions how to use the Greyhound-Data website?
