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Do you have questions about breeding theories?
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Banjo Boy At Studpage  << 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 

Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 18170
Dogs 14441 / Races 1816

18 Apr 2019 23:03


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Good to see all of you share in the spoils of a great win

You've invested plenty Andrew, you deserve to have a good one by Banjo




Joe Mc Cann
Australia
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Posts 150
Dogs 11 / Races 66

19 Apr 2019 01:07


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andrew varasdi wrote:

Yes we thought maybe tonight after a trial on Monday. Great to see her do that. But really thrilled for paul Anderton.

Super win last night, she did it at both ends of her race which was great to see.
Well done to you and Jarrad and great to see Paul picking up a nice race in town.




Andrew Varasdi
Australia
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Posts 1208
Dogs 2 / Races 11

25 May 2019 21:26


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So happy with showgirl queen. Litter is going great and will go even better if we can get the sister on the track.

But she is going super. Second 600m for two wins and looks like Paulís and our thoughts about her being a strong 600m bitch who can do it at both ends is dead right.

Well done Paul and bloody glad to be enjoying it with Jarrad.



Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
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Posts 4619
Dogs 4 / Races 0

26 May 2019 03:45


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This is evidence yet again Andrew that if you breed Banjo Boy in the right manner he will throw distance types. Congratulations to you guys on the win.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 18170
Dogs 14441 / Races 1816

26 May 2019 04:07


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andrew varasdi wrote:

So happy with showgirl queen. Litter is going great and will go even better if we can get the sister on the track.

But she is going super. Second 600m for two wins and looks like Paulís and our thoughts about her being a strong 600m bitch who can do it at both ends is dead right.

Well done Paul and bloody glad to be enjoying it with Jarrad.

Well done to you Andrew and to Jarrod and your trainer Paul Anderton

She gave nothing else a chance to beat her.

I am glad you stuck to the formula, you know it works ;-)



Andrew Varasdi
Australia
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Posts 1208
Dogs 2 / Races 11

26 May 2019 06:10


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To true Sandro:

Pretty excited about the next litter coming. Same formula ..... youíve done your homework.



Glenn Hatton
Australia
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Posts 4818
Dogs 92 / Races 98

27 May 2019 05:06


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Glenn Hatton wrote:

Great run by Showgirl Queen to win the Launching Pad Consolation. Will make a serious 600m bitch

Geez Iím a good judge!!


Jarrad Dale
Australia
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Posts 2073
Dogs 27 / Races 81

30 May 2019 06:42


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andrew varasdi wrote:

Well done Paul and bloody glad to be enjoying it with Jarrad.

Thanks for the all comments, She is a ripper and won again last night its always enjoyable racing them with good people. The next 6 months will be exciting.

If you have a damline that gels with "light of fire" banjo boy is the way to go, Most underrated sire in the country imo.



Andrew Varasdi
Australia
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Posts 1208
Dogs 2 / Races 11

30 May 2019 19:33


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And reared by the best Troy at clover park. Thanks mate



Mick Whyte
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1016
Dogs 20 / Races 3

31 May 2019 15:51


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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:

Thx for that Andrew. Fair call re Penske.

Sand Man isn't in x in KMM's ped and there in lies the danger in saying things like Banjo may not go well with KMM bitches because with 911 Sand Man is in x thru CJ Ima Bahama which is in 911's dams pedigree.

You may well be doing Banjo an injustice by calling it that way. Too honest for your own good Andrew. haha. cheers.

==========================================================

I know genius breeder Kevin Burns told me he used to like crossing New Tears with Light of Fire so you may be re right Mick with a similar cross between AA/Collision working, however I wld then take it to the next step and try to work out why that's the case. If you can answer that question, that wld be extremely interesting reading.

Re LOF/Blue Girl Vane that was because Jarrad's line has thrown AA which was by LOF, and Blue Girl Vane recreates LOF at a very high percentage through different individuals other than LOF himself...........iow Blue Girl Vane is recreating a very similar intensity to what LOF did with the same damline.

Similarly if I had a bitch from your line Mick I wld be trying to recreate another Bombastic Shiraz because he produced Bit Chili, or another Where's Pedro because he produced Double Twist through different individuals to Bombastic & Pedro in the hope of that line giving up another Bit Chili or Double Twist type. I wldn't bother about anything else. That wld be my focus.

Now does Collision do this thru any of his dams to Pedro or Bombastic at a sufficiently high percentage (above 88%) ?

CLICK HERE approx 66% ; CLICK HERE approx 60%;
so not high enough %'s there for my liking and that now eliminates you from breeding a possible champion from a Bombastic/ Where's Pedro perspective. It may still produce a champion if you do this mating but it wld likely be to another dog that was previously successful with your girls damline. That's my theory anyway.

Lets look at the next dam up collisions sire line Tranquil Flame CLICK HERE not much there at all ; CLICK HERE again nothing much here esp when you consider Wav Supreme, Sabby's Image & Bowetzel are only cross duplicated in the top half of the pedigree, AND now that likely eliminates you from breeding a possible invitation class type from a Bombastic/ Where's Pedro perspective. The further up the sireline you go the lesser the intensity UNLESS you have a full blood relation attached directly to the sires sire line.......so you are looking at above 94% to 100% range(previously explained in the 'Trends in Breeding' topic).

Similarly you can put in the next two dams Centrefire and Starfire Lady going up Collisions sireline with Bombastic and Pedro and see how they match up. Keep in mind you are now likely looking at mixed 4/5 & Grade 5 competitors unless they are above 94%.........that's from a Bombastic and Pedro perspective only.

That's my thought process when I go through a pedigree. I just like the figures on my side. Then there's x path, xy, outcross positioning, sex balancing, reverse pedigrees etc. cheers.

Ryan,
With the Solar Pak x Collision litter doing unbelievable would this change your opinion on this mating CLICK HERE I have also had close contact with many of the Tifi x Collision bitches and find they have a special temperament. Surely with the likes of Paua To Burn, Tifia, Mister Twister and now Feral Franky and his litter mates. There is also others from Awesome Bergers branch of the line. I have also noticed compared to Where's Pedro the Collision/Awesome Assasin nick seems to way more success with repeat matings. for instance Paua to Burn was a repeat mating. Tifi had a very good litter when repeated to collision but not so with Where's Pedro. Please don't get me wrong, I have a group 1 finalist brood bitch from the same line who is by Where's Pedro and rate her highly, but I just think especially with the Where's Pedro so close the Collision mating is a no brainer.
Respect your analysis that's why I replied, thanks in advance.



Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4619
Dogs 4 / Races 0

02 Jun 2019 15:23


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Hi Mick, apologies for the late reply.

I notice there is a high intensity 88% niche with Rumble Spirit (Collision's dam) and Token Prince EXTERNAL LINK who has also had success with this damline, so it may well be that reasoning bringing Collision to the fore.

Pedro & Bombastic in the past threw the highest quality with this damline, so logic to me is replicate them if possible to create breeding parallels to imo champions in Double Twist & Bit Chili. It may well be that Collision as you say is throwing enuf quality to replicate TP thru his dam Rumble Spirit. My issue is that a really quality dog in that TP litter fought and Rumble Spirit sharing such a close niche to TP is worrying. It may be that the 12% of that niche not included in that relationship may make the difference. I hope so and that may well be the case.

Anyway I prefer to look at recreating relationships to dogs with champion qualities, try and eliminate as much of that type of risk as possible. It may be there were dogs in the champions litters that were iffy types too, but at least breeding parallels to them have a chance of reproducing that champion type of ability again. Once again Collision may have arrived with this line throwing those champion types and your thinking may well be correct. I don't rate dogs in detail sectionally like I used to, so I'm not offering an opinion there until I absolutely have to, as there's much work involved.

Another thing I like to look for on the front page of a pedigree is extremely high intensity(preferably 100%) attached directly to the sires sireline but back into the pedigree. The best I can get with your mating is 94% intensity within 5 gens between Light of Fire and Sobbing Sal EXTERNAL LINK . Mister Twister carried them in the 3rd & 4th gen thru the sires sireline and dams sireline EXTERNAL LINK , Feral Franky carries them in the 3rd & 5th gen thru the sires sireline and dams sireline EXTERNAL LINK , your mating carries them in the 3rd & 5th gen thru the sires sireline which is comparable to Franky but thru the grandams sireline this time - it may be slightly less intensity being thru the grandams sireline but at least it's still in the 5th gen so thats a plus. Remember when they are farther back in the ped we are aiming for 100% intensity. You can have some real influence with less than 100% intensity when they closer up as in Twisters case. Double Twist is a great example of 100% intensity at work further back in the ped on the front page with Miss Dusty Lee attached directly to the sires sireline in the 4th gen and full blood relation Osti's Magic in the 5th gen EXTERNAL LINK . btw 100% intensities thru the sires sireline much closer to the front of the pedigree and you may risk shorter course types and less than 100% intensity further back into the pedigree and you risk losing the impact. That's what I've found at this early stage anyway.

Repeat matings that's a whole new topic and always open to be convinced there. To me sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

No breeding theory that I know of works all the time, but that doesn't mean breeders shld guess either, so I like to pack a pedigree with as many logical theories as possible with genetic reasons and percentages to back them up.

Good luck if you go ahead with your mating I'm not totally against as it carries line breeding in x to cornerstone brood Elsie Moss and has appeal from a Feral Franky perspective as explained, just have some reservations at face value looking at this line from a TP perspective which Collision brings to the table thru his dam Rumble Spirit. Cheers.




Mick Whyte
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1016
Dogs 20 / Races 3

05 Jun 2019 03:46


 (1)
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:

Hi Mick, apologies for the late reply.

I notice there is a high intensity 88% niche with Rumble Spirit (Collision's dam) and Token Prince EXTERNAL LINK who has also had success with this damline, so it may well be that reasoning bringing Collision to the fore.

Pedro & Bombastic in the past threw the highest quality with this damline, so logic to me is replicate them if possible to create breeding parallels to imo champions in Double Twist & Bit Chili. It may well be that Collision as you say is throwing enuf quality to replicate TP thru his dam Rumble Spirit. My issue is that a really quality dog in that TP litter fought and Rumble Spirit sharing such a close niche to TP is worrying. It may be that the 12% of that niche not included in that relationship may make the difference. I hope so and that may well be the case.

Anyway I prefer to look at recreating relationships to dogs with champion qualities, try and eliminate as much of that type of risk as possible. It may be there were dogs in the champions litters that were iffy types too, but at least breeding parallels to them have a chance of reproducing that champion type of ability again. Once again Collision may have arrived with this line throwing those champion types and your thinking may well be correct. I don't rate dogs in detail sectionally like I used to, so I'm not offering an opinion there until I absolutely have to, as there's much work involved.

Another thing I like to look for on the front page of a pedigree is extremely high intensity(preferably 100%) attached directly to the sires sireline but back into the pedigree. The best I can get with your mating is 94% intensity within 5 gens between Light of Fire and Sobbing Sal EXTERNAL LINK . Mister Twister carried them in the 3rd & 4th gen thru the sires sireline and dams sireline EXTERNAL LINK , Feral Franky carries them in the 3rd & 5th gen thru the sires sireline and dams sireline EXTERNAL LINK , your mating carries them in the 3rd & 5th gen thru the sires sireline which is comparable to Franky but thru the grandams sireline this time - it may be slightly less intensity being thru the grandams sireline but at least it's still in the 5th gen so thats a plus. Remember when they are farther back in the ped we are aiming for 100% intensity. You can have some real influence with less than 100% intensity when they closer up as in Twisters case. Double Twist is a great example of 100% intensity at work further back in the ped on the front page with Miss Dusty Lee attached directly to the sires sireline in the 4th gen and full blood relation Osti's Magic in the 5th gen EXTERNAL LINK . btw 100% intensities thru the sires sireline much closer to the front of the pedigree and you may risk shorter course types and less than 100% intensity further back into the pedigree and you risk losing the impact. That's what I've found at this early stage anyway.

Repeat matings that's a whole new topic and always open to be convinced there. To me sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

No breeding theory that I know of works all the time, but that doesn't mean breeders shld guess either, so I like to pack a pedigree with as many logical theories as possible with genetic reasons and percentages to back them up.

Good luck if you go ahead with your mating I'm not totally against as it carries line breeding in x to cornerstone brood Elsie Moss and has appeal from a Feral Franky perspective as explained, just have some reservations at face value looking at this line from a TP perspective which Collision brings to the table thru his dam Rumble Spirit. Cheers.

Thanks for the reply, interesting reading and once again has given something to think about.
My feelings and from what I have seen when Collision has been used on the Tifi/ Chili Berger line is that he has brought nothing but hard chasing to the line,. I havenít had any experience with Token Prince as a sire but I have heard he was known to throw some questionable types.
I would probably put Token Prince dog that fought to Token Princeís temperment himsaelf, and also the Chili Berger line has improved itís chase itself with the use of sires like Bombastic Shiraz, Whereís Pedro, Collision ect.
Thanks again I like when someone gives an honest opinion not just telling you what you want to hear.




Andrew Varasdi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1208
Dogs 2 / Races 11

05 Jun 2019 21:50


 (2)
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Mick for what it is worth there was a nice maiden winner at meadows yesterday out of a collision bitch. Kratos. It went 30.17 I think.


Mark Staines
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3576
Dogs 68 / Races 14

05 Jun 2019 22:04


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Mick Whyte wrote:

Ryan Vanderwert wrote:

Hi Mick, apologies for the late reply.

I notice there is a high intensity 88% niche with Rumble Spirit (Collision's dam) and Token Prince EXTERNAL LINK who has also had success with this damline, so it may well be that reasoning bringing Collision to the fore.

Pedro & Bombastic in the past threw the highest quality with this damline, so logic to me is replicate them if possible to create breeding parallels to imo champions in Double Twist & Bit Chili. It may well be that Collision as you say is throwing enuf quality to replicate TP thru his dam Rumble Spirit. My issue is that a really quality dog in that TP litter fought and Rumble Spirit sharing such a close niche to TP is worrying. It may be that the 12% of that niche not included in that relationship may make the difference. I hope so and that may well be the case.

Anyway I prefer to look at recreating relationships to dogs with champion qualities, try and eliminate as much of that type of risk as possible. It may be there were dogs in the champions litters that were iffy types too, but at least breeding parallels to them have a chance of reproducing that champion type of ability again. Once again Collision may have arrived with this line throwing those champion types and your thinking may well be correct. I don't rate dogs in detail sectionally like I used to, so I'm not offering an opinion there until I absolutely have to, as there's much work involved.

Another thing I like to look for on the front page of a pedigree is extremely high intensity(preferably 100%) attached directly to the sires sireline but back into the pedigree. The best I can get with your mating is 94% intensity within 5 gens between Light of Fire and Sobbing Sal EXTERNAL LINK . Mister Twister carried them in the 3rd & 4th gen thru the sires sireline and dams sireline EXTERNAL LINK , Feral Franky carries them in the 3rd & 5th gen thru the sires sireline and dams sireline EXTERNAL LINK , your mating carries them in the 3rd & 5th gen thru the sires sireline which is comparable to Franky but thru the grandams sireline this time - it may be slightly less intensity being thru the grandams sireline but at least it's still in the 5th gen so thats a plus. Remember when they are farther back in the ped we are aiming for 100% intensity. You can have some real influence with less than 100% intensity when they closer up as in Twisters case. Double Twist is a great example of 100% intensity at work further back in the ped on the front page with Miss Dusty Lee attached directly to the sires sireline in the 4th gen and full blood relation Osti's Magic in the 5th gen EXTERNAL LINK . btw 100% intensities thru the sires sireline much closer to the front of the pedigree and you may risk shorter course types and less than 100% intensity further back into the pedigree and you risk losing the impact. That's what I've found at this early stage anyway.

Repeat matings that's a whole new topic and always open to be convinced there. To me sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

No breeding theory that I know of works all the time, but that doesn't mean breeders shld guess either, so I like to pack a pedigree with as many logical theories as possible with genetic reasons and percentages to back them up.

Good luck if you go ahead with your mating I'm not totally against as it carries line breeding in x to cornerstone brood Elsie Moss and has appeal from a Feral Franky perspective as explained, just have some reservations at face value looking at this line from a TP perspective which Collision brings to the table thru his dam Rumble Spirit. Cheers.

Thanks for the reply, interesting reading and once again has given something to think about.
My feelings and from what I have seen when Collision has been used on the Tifi/ Chili Berger line is that he has brought nothing but hard chasing to the line,. I havenít had any experience with Token Prince as a sire but I have heard he was known to throw some questionable types.
I would probably put Token Prince dog that fought to Token Princeís temperment himsaelf, and also the Chili Berger line has improved itís chase itself with the use of sires like Bombastic Shiraz, Whereís Pedro, Collision ect.
Thanks again I like when someone gives an honest opinion not just telling you what you want to hear.

Interesting read !!!!
IMO Collision is no doubt a good Broody sire but gee I've seen some very iffy Daughters of his on the Race Track !!!!


Simon Milgate
Australia
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Posts 1605
Dogs 5 / Races 0

06 Jun 2019 04:34


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Hi Andrew, Ross from Tassie had a mixed day yesterday his take away shop burnt down in the morning (all ok) and then Cleo had to have a an emergency caesarean at 7pm, a repeat mating to BB. The 4 in the first litter going along well.

CLICK HERE
2 dogs 4 bitches





Andrew Varasdi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1208
Dogs 2 / Races 11

06 Jun 2019 10:19


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Yeh I spoke with him this morning. What a day.. but he is in good spirits. Best to you Ross.


Ross Farmer
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 201
Dogs 0 / Races 1

09 Jun 2019 15:18


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Andrew
Just an update on the Banjo Boy - Runaround Susan (Kinloch Brae/Susan Penman) mating.
5 pups, 4 dogs, 1 bitch, whelped 1 Nov 2018.
All in the hands of Su & Peter Trim (now in Bendigo). All have high chase instrincts/prey drive.
All very promising at this stage.




Andrew Varasdi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1208
Dogs 2 / Races 11

09 Jun 2019 23:26


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After the week you had mate you deserve a good one. Hope all well and great to hear.


Simon Milgate
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1605
Dogs 5 / Races 0

04 Jul 2019 03:49


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Hi Andrew, I see Solve The Puzzle double popping up with a few of BB's good ones. Have a look at this and let me know if you can see any additional nicks or do you think it will work.

CLICK HERE



Andrew Varasdi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1208
Dogs 2 / Races 11

09 Jul 2019 11:39


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Hi simon. Sorry between a very ill son who has been in hospital and work I havenít had a chance to get back to you.

In short the solve the puzzle cross is well documented and has been featured in the bloodlines of many high quality dogs.

Your bit heís damline also seems to respond to having elsie moss in x path and this is something that banjo boy also provides. Your bitches dam ďbreak evenĒ when Elsie Moss was in x through Kinloch threw brad hill billy.

Happy to chat anytime. Nothing wrong with the mating that I can see.

Good luck and sorry again for the delay.

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