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Do you have questions about breeding theories?
Or do you need tips on how to rear your pups?

Frozen Statspage  1 2 3 4 5 

Adrian Dowdle
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 113
Dogs 7 / Races 9

22 Jun 2015 06:44


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Paul Wheeler wrote:

We also have the highest % of pups whelped that get named and get to the track annually in this country and these figure were compiled by GRNSW around 90 % plus.

Paw

John you obviously have selected reading ability the Key words here is - " get to the track "

Outstanding result especially on such large scale, Well done PAW.



John McAlister
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6567
Dogs 1 / Races 0

22 Jun 2015 07:10


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PW how many times do I have to tell you I am not an idiot I am far from it the only difference between myself and most people is I don't have you up on a pedestal never have never will.People put you there because of your success but for a moment let's stop there you breed up 300 pups a year give or take a few now that's a lot of puppies and if you didn't get the type of dogs that you win with well you would go broke.Now it doesn't matter to me if you breed 1 litter or 30 litters whether you win 1 Melbourne Cup or 10 what does worry me though is where did you aquire the PHD so as you can go around calling people like me an idiot.
Chloe Allen came from a litter of 6 pups that won between them an average of 47700+ change
Chloe won around 47 on her own
her dam also won upwards to 50k
Chloe Allen produced from her 1st litter by Dyna Lachlan a litter that averaged 3700+ per pup for 15w 46pl averaging just short of 2 wins per pup there were 5 individual winners from 8 pups
from her litter to Cosmic Chief her pups averaged 12578 per pup
therewere 7 individual winners for 48 wins and 75pl averaging 6 wins per pup from 8 pups
Kelso Fusileer ? stats not finished litter still racing
people will notice that from Chloe's 1st litter she Improved on each litter which to me is a great stat ...now that stat alone tells me and the idiot kicks in here for that bitch to improve each litter is either good luck or pure A#$%e.How many breeders out there are breeding with bitches from litters that have won near on 300k how many breeders out there are breeding with bitches that have individually won 30k,40k,100k+ you could count most on both hands so to me if you couldn't win races with that quality of bitch then I'd be calling you an idiot


Cyril John Anderson
Australia
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Posts 281
Dogs 75 / Races 5

22 Jun 2015 07:34


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Ted, good to hear from you & with the consistent results i see you have in Tassie i totally agree with you, no need to reinvent yourself & what you do, because you do it all & make every pup & every litter you breed count, i think i even remember you bringing a complete litter back from deaths door & turned them into top racers. Unfortunately a lot of us are not in a position to do it ourself but still want to partake in the sport & pay someone else to do the job. It is not uncommen to be promised the world as far as rearing handling & early education is concerned but find pups sent to breakers straight out of the paddock without ever a collar on, i'm sure the breaker loves these types as much as he would yours & treat them equally. PAW results speak for themselves it is his business he controls everything that happens, is hands on & gets the results he deserves.
i beleive gone are the days when results are achieved from pups thrown in a paddock pulled out at 13 months & dumpted on the breaker to perform miracles.



Paul Wheeler
Australia
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Posts 329
Dogs 8 / Races 0

22 Jun 2015 07:55


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Cryil
You are 100% right , I would not risk rearing with anyone.Thats why I have always said breeding is just the first step in the journey to produce a good racer.

John
You really have no idea

Why do you think I produce with such good quality brooders ? because they are the ones that produce quality in the majority of brooders.

It's not a fluke I have designed our breeding programe around that and many other factors .

Your comments are so far out of the playing field in regards to FAI it's a joke.

Just keep doing what you are doing that's fine by me .
But don't start with you garbage on frozen because it's without doubt the best thing that's ever happened in greyhound breeding.

There are enough idiots telling us what to do with our greyhounds in Australia at present without you adding to it.

Paw





Richard Gray
Australia
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Posts 2231
Dogs 11 / Races 9

22 Jun 2015 08:29


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I had no intention on commenting on this thread as although I have had an involvment in the game all my life, (I am 50)I have only been "back in the game" on a personal level for just a few years with minimal dogs. In my eyes it is not rocket science. Regardless of what anyone states as fact. Without frozen, the influx of dogs doing the rounds with IRE, UK & USA blood would not be happening and the results speak for themselves.. FULL STOP.... As for rearing and breaking, I will and am doing it all myself now, at the end of the day, if a dog turns out crappy, I have only myself to blame. The sire of my dog copped a heap of flack in AUS, I am so wrapped in frozen that (my wife) has now taken over every Aus straw available of that sire I like. Pretty simple, If you dont like frozen, go natural with what is available and cross your fingers.

Rich.



John McAlister
Australia
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Posts 6567
Dogs 1 / Races 0

22 Jun 2015 10:00


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Paul you keep using that horrible word idiot and I will tell you again I am far from it I asked people whether they use
Natural
Fresh AI
frozen AI
Frozen Surgical Implant
I also mentioned washing the sperm over the eggs which is the way it was explained to me now with the catheter being placed only an inch or so away from the ovaries the sperm have very little distance of travelling meaning all sperm and there is no cervix for the sperm to contend with meaning easy days for the good the bad and the ugly when it's AI the sperm must force it's way thru the cervix now big difference there
I also said I don't have a problem with using frozen but I do think that we don't get all the goods especially when the ejaculate is split
You tell me Paul if Chloe had've produced another litter of pups with the average at 3500 would you have went again I think the 1st litter won 15 races from 5 pups with 1 winning 9 races and from what you say 2 litters averaging that would be way below your expectations or standards for a brooder as you put it


Sean O'Donnell
Australia
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Posts 4262
Dogs 64 / Races 54

22 Jun 2015 11:03


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John I have spoken with you on many occasions about this topic but I have a preference for natural or fresh AI purely because it avoids what I see as an unnessecary surgical procedure so if a I can avoid it I will always use the fore mentioned avenues but yes I will obviously use frozen and have many times.

Reality is the bitches just didn't produce regardless of service procedure, but as I didn't have the luxury of the likes of Paul wheeler or any person who does every facet on their own, I put faith in commercial entities to deliver and for the greater part and over five years they came up short! I recall a conversation with Paul wheeler about rearing when I first got into dogs and only now have I really grasped the importance of it and the observation of the very ordinary operators throughout the industry. But good broods produced in the face of poor to average rearing so I can only imagine what may have been achieved if I had the luxury of being able to control all of the facets in rearing.

I think frozen semen is the least of people's worries, but yes granted it does annoy me that some dogs are frozen only!

John some of your ideas have merit but a lot of them are at times off the mark and I have never agreed with everything you have said either (re calcium and pups) you must value and respect the fact that people do not concur with your beliefs as they have different beliefs.





Grant Thomas
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 11447
Dogs 64 / Races 20

22 Jun 2015 12:12


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John McAlister wrote:

Paul you keep using that horrible word idiot and I will tell you again I am far from it I asked people whether they use
Natural
Fresh AI
frozen AI
Frozen Surgical Implant
I also mentioned washing the sperm over the eggs which is the way it was explained to me now with the catheter being placed only an inch or so away from the ovaries the sperm have very little distance of travelling meaning all sperm and there is no cervix for the sperm to contend with meaning easy days for the good the bad and the ugly when it's AI the sperm must force it's way thru the cervix now big difference there
I also said I don't have a problem with using frozen but I do think that we don't get all the goods especially when the ejaculate is split
You tell me Paul if Chloe had've produced another litter of pups with the average at 3500 would you have went again I think the 1st litter won 15 races from 5 pups with 1 winning 9 races and from what you say 2 litters averaging that would be way below your expectations or standards for a brooder as you put it

John IMO and from what I've read extensively on this matter...ONLY GOOD semen, STRONG semen, MOBILE semen...will reach an egg and be able to force it's way into the 'nucleus' of the egg...WEAK or DAMAGED semen just can't compete with the more 'viril' semen...hence a 'weak one' would not fertilise an egg...

Placed closer to the egg than having to 'swim' up the cervix(which only Good, Strong Viril semen do) should not play a part as what I've posted above...



John McAlister
Australia
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Posts 6567
Dogs 1 / Races 0

23 Jun 2015 04:04


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Well let's look at it another way how does one know that the gene he is chasing isn't in 1 of the other vials of frozen now with 700 million sperm you must remember that no 2 could be identical because that is what breeding is all about GENE CHASING breeders breed for stamina for speed keenness big not so big so many reasons we breed .... and that is part of PW's theories because it is written on GD



Grant Thomas
Australia
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Posts 11447
Dogs 64 / Races 20

23 Jun 2015 05:03


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John McAlister wrote:

Well let's look at it another way how does one know that the gene he is chasing isn't in 1 of the other vials of frozen now with 700 million sperm you must remember that no 2 could be identical because that is what breeding is all about GENE CHASING breeders breed for stamina for speed keenness big not so big so many reasons we breed .... and that is part of PW's theories because it is written on GD

ALL sperm carry the exact same genes(genetic code) pasted on from the male...the sperm in vial 1 are IDENTICAL to the sperm in vial 2,3,4,etc...because 1 dog in the litter is better must be another factor...nourishment...etc...


Doug Taylor
Australia
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Posts 1896
Dogs 22 / Races 1

23 Jun 2015 05:13


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grant thomas wrote:

John McAlister wrote:

Well let's look at it another way how does one know that the gene he is chasing isn't in 1 of the other vials of frozen now with 700 million sperm you must remember that no 2 could be identical because that is what breeding is all about GENE CHASING breeders breed for stamina for speed keenness big not so big so many reasons we breed .... and that is part of PW's theories because it is written on GD

ALL sperm carry the exact same genes(genetic code) pasted on from the male...the sperm in vial 1 are IDENTICAL to the sperm in vial 2,3,4,etc...because 1 dog in the litter is better must be another factor...nourishment...etc...

Grant I think you'll find it's the swapping of material in the process of meiosis (splitting of genetic material) that makes them different.



Grant Thomas
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 11447
Dogs 64 / Races 20

23 Jun 2015 05:18


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Doug Taylor wrote:

grant thomas wrote:

John McAlister wrote:

Well let's look at it another way how does one know that the gene he is chasing isn't in 1 of the other vials of frozen now with 700 million sperm you must remember that no 2 could be identical because that is what breeding is all about GENE CHASING breeders breed for stamina for speed keenness big not so big so many reasons we breed .... and that is part of PW's theories because it is written on GD

ALL sperm carry the exact same genes(genetic code) pasted on from the male...the sperm in vial 1 are IDENTICAL to the sperm in vial 2,3,4,etc...because 1 dog in the litter is better must be another factor...nourishment...etc...

Grant I think you'll find it's the swapping of material in the process of meiosis (splitting of genetic material) that makes them different.

But ALL sperm carry the same 'fingerprint'...yes...???



Jack Gatty
Australia
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Posts 2055
Dogs 1 / Races 0

23 Jun 2015 05:57


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I think that's right Grant but it gets complicated with the female and if the code is the same as the female it is used - if different then the dominate gene takes precedent along with the 50/50 used between the female and male - at least that's how I understand it but I haven't explained it very well I'm sure someone will explain it better.


Doug Taylor
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1896
Dogs 22 / Races 1

23 Jun 2015 06:05


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I actually thought their genetic makeup was slightly different as well but don't quote me.



Kevin Wright
Australia
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Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

23 Jun 2015 06:57


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grant thomas wrote:

Doug Taylor wrote:

grant thomas wrote:

John McAlister wrote:

Well let's look at it another way how does one know that the gene he is chasing isn't in 1 of the other vials of frozen now with 700 million sperm you must remember that no 2 could be identical because that is what breeding is all about GENE CHASING breeders breed for stamina for speed keenness big not so big so many reasons we breed .... and that is part of PW's theories because it is written on GD

ALL sperm carry the exact same genes(genetic code) pasted on from the male...the sperm in vial 1 are IDENTICAL to the sperm in vial 2,3,4,etc...because 1 dog in the litter is better must be another factor...nourishment...etc...

Grant I think you'll find it's the swapping of material in the process of meiosis (splitting of genetic material) that makes them different.

But ALL sperm carry the same 'fingerprint'...yes...???


Grant this is for you because i know how much you love my copy and pastes ..

EVERY SINGLE SPERM IS DIFFERENT

Do dogs have the same kind of DNA as humans?

Yes and no. Yes their DNA, like every living things DNA, is made of the same building blocks of As, Ts, Gs, and Cs. But their DNA isnt exactly alike. All those As, Ts, Gs, and Cs are put together in different orders for dogs and people.

In fact, even though you and I both have human DNA, our DNA is put together a little differently too. Which all makes sense when you think about DNA (DeoxyriboNucleic Acid) as a cookbook for building a living thing.

The recipes in this DNA cookbook are written in a simple language with only the four letters A, T, G, and C as its alphabet. Doesnt sound like enough letters but they are plenty because there are billions of them repeated and jumbled in so many different combinations. Which means that the DNA inside of you or a dog is really, really long.

A complete set of human DNA has a total of 3.3 billion letters. If these were printed on a giant piece of paper, with 50 letters per square inch, the piece of paper youll need would be 8 times the size of a football field!

You are different from me because every now and then, you have a different letter from me at a certain spot. So maybe at position 17, 456, 327 I have an A and you have a G.

On average, you and I have around six million of these differences. And you and a dog, have many more differences within and outside of your recipes.

Different Cookbooks, Different Organisms

As I said, your complete set of DNA or genome can be thought of as the book that carries all the instructions for making you. As weve learned, as a human you have around 3.3 billion letters. A dogs is a bit smaller with only 2.8 billion letters.

These 500 million different letters sounds like a big deal but it turns out they probably arent. Most of these are more like blank pages or maybe doodles in the book. Losing them probably isnt the big difference between dogs and people. (Although new studies suggest that they might be more important that we thought. Stay tuned!)

humans and dogs have different numbers of chromosomes too. But the number of chromosomes doesnt really matter much either.

Just as a book is divided into chapters, and chapters into sentences, the long strings of genome DNA are chopped up into chapters called chromosomes. Within each chromosome are pieces called genes with an average length of 3,000 letters.

Genes are like the individual recipes in a cookbook. Instead of recipes for cookies or spaghetti sauce, these are recipes for hair color, making eyes or putting our brains together. Like in a real cookbook, the recipes have the differences that matter.

If you took a cookbook and just divided it up differently, it wouldnt matter. All the recipes would still be there. This would be like dividing someones genes into a different number of chromosomes. It wouldnt matter either.

But if you put together a book of different recipes, then youd have different cookbooks and so make different meals. This is one of the big differences between peoples and dogs DNA.

Now the difference isnt the number of recipes. Humans have between 20,000 and 25,000 genes split across 23 chromosomes while dogs have around but the same number spread across 39 chromosomes. In a sense, humans and dogs have cookbooks filled with the same number of recipes.

This makes sense, because humans and dogs share so many similar body parts that carry out the same basic biological functions. They even share many kinds of genetic diseases - cancer, blindness, and congenital heart disease, for example. Thats why scientists have been turning to dogs as a model for studying human diseases.

The differences between you and Lassie (Toto? Snoopy?) have more to do with having a few different recipes and with changes within the ones you share. You also have differences in the instructions for how often and when each recipe is read compared to a dog.

So you might have a crme brulee recipe that the dogs cookbook doesnt and the dog has a fritter one that you dont have. You also might have the recipe for oatmeal cookies but a dog might have one for chocolate chip. And you might have the oatmeal cookie for a snack and the dog has its chocolate chip cookie for dessert. All these kinds of differences make you different from a dog (and to a lesser extent, different from me).

Most of these differences are the result of having different letters in the recipes themselves or in the instructions in how to use them. In other words, some differences are in the genes themselves and some are in the DNA outside of the genes that tell a cell how often to read a gene.

On the whole, only 25% of the DNA sequence in the dog genome exactly matches the human sequence. When the tiny changes in the other 75% of the DNA are piled up across 25,000 genes and across trillions of cells in the body, the results are two very different organisms.

Ps
John I cannot see your posts anymore because I have used the tool available on data to Block a persons name and posts... LOL



John McAlister
Australia
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Posts 6567
Dogs 1 / Races 0

23 Jun 2015 07:26


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Well maybe that's a good thing but sad to say I did enjoy what you just wrote because Mr Wheeler says a similar thing if you want hard chase go to a dog you think is throwing or going to throw this way and if your wrong ..blame it on...GENIE



Jack Gatty
Australia
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Posts 2055
Dogs 1 / Races 0

23 Jun 2015 07:36


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Kev - I get the cookbook analogy but re Grants ?. Does each sperm of the males millions in an ejaculate carry the exact same code from the male OR is each single sperm capable of carrying different traits hence millions of different codes. Eg. Could one sperm carry a fawn coat colour and another sperm black OR is each sperm identical and then the difference in pups comes down to the jumble with the female eggs and the dominate chromosome taking preference.



Kevin Wright
Australia
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Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

23 Jun 2015 08:23


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Jack

Every sperm is different

It's not mutation, your sons would be different because each sperm cell has different bits of your genetic information in them. For example (MUCH simplified), if your hair is Xx, half your sperm will have the big X and half will have the little. Then, if your eyes are Bb, 1/4 of your sperm will have XB, 1/4 Xb, 1/4 xb, 1/4 xB. Then, if your height is HH, you'll have XBH, XbH, xBH, XBh, xbH, XBh, Xbh, xbh... you get the gist. Imagine all the possible combinations. Staggering.

Ps... Jack ....Grant loves it when i go into detail about things and he loves my copy and paste jobs




Jack Gatty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2055
Dogs 1 / Races 0

23 Jun 2015 09:25


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Thanks Kev - so when it all boils down to it it's a lottery what sperm carries the best traits actually being the 1 of millions capable of fertilizing the female egg. Next master class Kev is ' Are all female eggs made equal' lol. And as far as my sons being different -that's spot on their all chalk and cheese - always keep an eye on the milkman ha ha.



Grant Thomas
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 11447
Dogs 64 / Races 20

23 Jun 2015 10:38


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" EVERY SINGLE SPERM IS DIFFERENT "...so there's 100's of millions of DIFFERENT Brett Lees in each ejeculate...???...



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