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Jamie Quinlivian Australia (Verified User) Posts 8727 Dogs 10 / Races 0 15 Nov 2015 05:50
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Anthony, can I ask you if you think there is a perfect number? Or would you like to see the numbers return to where they were last year?
Personally I think breeding as a business had to be slowed. It's the method, not the outcome, that bothers me. But I think the sport had to act in some way.
Anthony McVicker Australia (Verified User) Posts 1439 Dogs 24 / Races 126 15 Nov 2015 06:06
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AU/NZ starters based on 8 dogs in last 2 weeks
4/10/15 to 10/10 = 7696 27/9/15 to 3/10 = 7240
My data also tells me 96% of dogs race once in a 7 day period on average
If we breed apprx 20000 dogs a year now and cant fill meetings, how can we do that with 12000 pups a year
Jamie Quinlivian Australia (Verified User) Posts 8727 Dogs 10 / Races 0 15 Nov 2015 06:20
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I'm just asking if you had a perfect number in mind.
Anthony Jeffress Australia (Verified User) Posts 3669 Dogs 54 / Races 10 15 Nov 2015 08:50
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Jamie Quinlivian wrote:
I'm just asking if you had a perfect number in mind.
Jamie, even 10,000 (or 12,000 etc) could possibly be "too many" ... IF we can't get the support to help educate the public about the true, wonderful nature of the greyhound breed. And if we can't get better funding and support for GAP (etc). Then there's a need for a better Grading (racing) system. We need to look at ALL aspects and seek improvemens.
Similarly, 20,000 (or 22,000 etc) can be entirely FINE ... IF, instead, "we" can help assure and ensure a better future for these beautiful hounds.
Alas, "Rome wasn't built in a day".
But, in my opinion, an appropriate, SUSTAINABLE number for the next year or two "should be" around 15,000 - 16,000 (I believe this equates to around 12-14% less than historical numbers since 2010) ... which is quite a bit more than the number which will be born in 2015. In fact, I harbour a genuine fear that there'll be potentially serious, negative ramifications BECAUSE the numbers are going to be as low as they're going to be come the end of 2015.
Despite the naive assumptions of the bureaucratic pencil pushers, we will NOT suddenly see hundreds more "slower" dogs filling fields. They are likely to remain just as they are now; and that's uncompetitive. That said, these are perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT greyhounds ... who WE need to try to ensure that they still get to live long, happy lives as PETS (the 90% who'll be suitable).
If "we" find "that" "fix", and we'll all get to sleep a little easier; because it's going to be this sort of outcome which should become the norm if we are likely to survive, and even GROW, into the 2020's and beyond.
Jamie Quinlivian Australia (Verified User) Posts 8727 Dogs 10 / Races 0 15 Nov 2015 09:34
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AJ, you know I respect you mate so let me present this case to you respectfully. And I do understand that you guys up there have been beaten with a bigger stick than the rest of us.
I believe that 'slow' dogs have probably been built that way, rather that bred. This is why breeding is the first area of huge reform. You can be sure that the rest is to come.
What about we have a major overhaul of rearing facilities?
For instance, I have 27 acres. I can house a rearing facility here with 200 dogs, pay absolutely no attention to the pups, let one become dominant in a 2 dog pen while the other one becomes timid, feed them bread and fat, never worm them, ring up the city based owner and say 'yeah they are growing strong, looking good' then hand them over to the breaker. My job is done. If those same pups were looked after in a different property, where a watchful eye can tell if certain behavioral patterns emerge and corrected, cared for and fed with the best, wormed, vet checked, encouraged to chase, rewarded, etc...... I guarantee those pups will only be as 'slow' as their genetics allow, not because of the environment.
So yes, buyers need to be more fussy, small time breeders need to find clients they can trust, and the elimination of any form of breeders bonus is welcome.
One area of this sport that is the source of all our problems is this... The breeder that just pumps out litter after litter, based on 'proven sire x city winning bitch' Not a care in the world what happens to these pups after 3 months of age and if one of them happens to win a GOBIS race, whoopee, we get $2,000 for doing f*** all....
This is the section of our sport that has slowed and as I said before. I applaud that. I've just bred again with my broodie and I can't wait until my race bitch comes on so I can breed with her because I will be watching every step those pups take. And you can guarantee that I will be on here bragging every time those pups win.
Anthony McVicker Australia (Verified User) Posts 1439 Dogs 24 / Races 126 10 Dec 2015 21:05
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Looks like 2015 will nudge just over 2000 service (not whelps), an estimated potential pup count of 12,500
This represents an apprx 39% drop in services on 2014 and potentially 8000 odd pups
Anthony McVicker Australia (Verified User) Posts 1439 Dogs 24 / Races 126 10 Dec 2015 21:14
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AU Stud Dog Service Stats from 1/1/15 to 10/12/15 1890 Services registered 84.9% Frozen 15.15% Nat 270 Different Sires Used 162 Sires or 60% have had 1 or 2 services
Least Popular Sires
LATE SHOW LEE 1 WORLD TITLE 1 LONESOME CRY 1 ANDY PALMER 1 MAJOR MISSION 1 ATHOS 1 MAMAJA 1 BEARABILITY 1 MR. PRIZZ 1 BITABILITY BALE 1 MY BOY PEDRO 1 BLACK ENFORCER 1 MY SIGNATURE 1 BLACK NITRO 1 MYALLA MYSTIC 1 BLUE LORIAN 1 NEB 1 BOHERNA ON AIR 1 NEVER ENOUGH 1 BOMBER JACK 1 NOVEMBER FURY 1 BUSINESS TIME 1 ON COIN 1 COLLIDE 1 OUR BARNEY 1 DARK HERO 1 OUR TOYMAN 1 DEFRIM BALE 1 PADDY'S FLAME 1 DROOPYS MALDINI 1 PARADISE MADISON 1 ELLE'S COMMANDO 1 PAT'S DUNROAMING 1 FARLEY BLITZ 1 PAUA OF DARKNESS 1 FINLAY 1 PEKING TOM 1 FORTY TWENTY 1 PHENOMENAL 1 GLOBAL WARMING 1 PLACARD 1 GURU GOOSE 1 PREMIER COUNTY 1 HANIFY'S LEGEND 1 PRINCE MINTO 1 HONDO BLACK 1 PROVEN NITRO 1 ICE TRUCKER 1 QUINTON BALE 1 IZY FAST 1 RAZLDAZL JAYFKAY 1 YOWYEH 1 RAZLDAZL RIOGA 1 KNOW EXCITEMENT 1 RED LESTA 1 KYLE JAMES 1 REGAL RICKY 1 LANSLEY BALE 1 REGAL THYME 1 ATE TO MUCH 1 REGATTA BALE 1 BIG BUNGA 1 REGGEMITE 1 BLACK HOUDINI 1 REMO RUBIK 1 BOBNIAK 1 RENEGADE CHIEF 1 BUCKLE UP WES 1 ROANOKEE 1 CRUMP 1 ROB PINES 1 DIDDA JOE 1 RONAN IZMIR 1 EXCEPTIONAL 1 RONRAY CHIEF 1 FIRE TYSON 1 RUN'S HOUSE 1 GUN HAND 1 SATANIC CASH 1 HESA FELON 1 SERGIO 1 IRON BLADE 1 SHANLYN PRINCE 1 KISS ME KETUT 1 SHELBOURNE ASTON 1 KYNAN'S EXPRESS 1 SILVER SAUL 1 BALLYMAC VIC 1 SOPRANO DRIVE 1 BLACK WOLF 1 SOZIN'S COMET 1 COLLEGE CAUSEWAY 1 SPECIAL KID 1 DROOPYS SCOLARI 1 SURFIN' KAWATI 1 GARDAM PRINCE 1 TAKE THE KITTY 1 HOT PRICE 1 TEXAS GOLD 1 KOBBLE CREEK 1 THOURNTON ADDIS 1 BLACK BEAR LEE 1 TOP STORY 1 DASHING CORSAIR 1 TUIAKI 1 HALL'S NORTHERN 1 UNCLE REMUS 1 ACE HI RUMBLE 1 WEETBIX KID 1 FARMOR LAS VEGAS 1 WESTMEAD HAWK 1 BOMBASTIC SHIRAZ 1 WHISKY ASSASSIN 1 JIM JOES UP 1 WINSOME BUCKS 1 JUST THE BEST 2 DUSTNADO 2 SH AVATAR 2 GENERAL MAGOO 2 YOGI BLUE 2 OSBOURNE BALE 2 BOOMA TEDDY 2 YELLA MUSTARD 2 SMOKE HOME 2 ALPE D'HUEZ 2 ENRY WALT 2 RAGING OBSESSION 2 STAR CONQUEST 2 HOTSHOT 2 STILL JUST UNDER 2 HURRICANE LUKE 2 SUPERSITE 2 ADDIS BOY 2 LUCA NEVEELK 2 DON CHENDO 2 MAGNIFICENT OSTI 2 ROCKY BALE 2 BANK MANAGER 2 RUFF IT 2 TOMMY BRISLANE 2 GO WILD TEDDY 2 APATCHE JET 2 HALLUCINATE 2 MONSTER JACK 2 HOT GRILLE 2 BYE BYE BONES 2 DID I ENTERTAIN 2 WALK HARD 2 JEN'S LOVE 2 WATTO LOTTO 2 APACHE LEAP 2 FLYING PENSKE 2 DEE WINTER 2 FLYING STANLEY 2 RETURN THE KING 2 WINDY MILLAR 2 DYNA VILLA 2 BELFAST JOHNNY 2 JOHNNY FIRE 2 BLACKALLS BOSS 2 HUMDRUM 2 YAHOO OMAR 2
Most popular natural sires
Sire Total NOLEN 17 SHAKEY JAKEY 13 BANJO BOY 11 STAGGER 9 PAW LICKING 8 MAGIC SPRITE 8 NITRO BURST 8 ZULU ZEUS 7 LOCHINVAR MARLOW 7 PREMIER BOLONEY 6 PETER ROCKET 6 DON'T KNOCKA HIM 6 JARVIS BALE 6 SWIFT FANCY 5 SPRING GUN 5 FEAR ZAFONIC 5 GLEN GALLON 5
Most popular overall
Sire Total BARCIA BALE 155 FABREGAS 148 COSMIC RUMBLE 100 SPRING GUN 60 BEKIM BALE 54 BANJO BOY 51 MAGIC SPRITE 49 LOCHINVAR MARLOW 41 MY BRO FABIO 40 EL GRAND SENOR 36 SHAKEY JAKEY 34 KINLOCH BRAE 32 FERNANDO BALE 30 GLEN GALLON 28 COLLISION 27 NOLEN 26 OAKS ROAD 26 DYNA TRON 24 DJAYS OCTANE 22 CAPE HAWKE 22 JARVIS BALE 22 PAW LICKING 21 DON'T KNOCKA HIM 20 BELLA INFRARED 20
Edward (Ted) Howard Australia (Verified User) Posts 1195 Dogs 16 / Races 0 11 Dec 2015 00:30
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Tasmania registered litters for October= nil . Oct notified services three looks good doesn't it.
Mark Schlegel Australia (Verified User) Posts 3168 Dogs 9 / Races 5 11 Dec 2015 02:38
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Given it took a few months for the backlash and the idiotic new rules to start affecting breeding numbers.....you can safely assume that the Jan, Feb and March figures will be a lot lower next year too.
With no sign of any sort of rebound in breeding we appear to be looking at a PERMANENT reduction in breeding of at least 40-50%!!!
I would suggest that AT LEAST 5-6 tracks will need to close around Australia (though most will be in NSW) and there will have to be a significant reduction in the number of meetings and races held to reflect the insufficient numbers of racing stock.
Congratulations to AA and the insipid morons in charge. You are well on your way to your ultimate goal of destroying this industry!
Anthony Jeffress Australia (Verified User) Posts 3669 Dogs 54 / Races 10 11 Dec 2015 07:48
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Mark Schlegel wrote:
Given it took a few months for the backlash and the idiotic new rules to start affecting breeding numbers.....you can safely assume that the Jan, Feb and March figures will be a lot lower next year too.
With no sign of any sort of rebound in breeding we appear to be looking at a PERMANENT reduction in breeding of at least 40-50%!!!
I would suggest that AT LEAST 5-6 tracks will need to close around Australia (though most will be in NSW) and there will have to be a significant reduction in the number of meetings and races held to reflect the insufficient numbers of racing stock.
Congratulations to AA and the insipid morons in charge. You are well on your way to your ultimate goal of destroying this industry!
And I'll add a couple of "dishonorable mentions" to a few representatives from the Vet 'industry'.
Due to massive cutbacks in breeding, it's often taking 2-3 years for some Frozen semen to sell & be utilised.
A well-known Vic Clinic is now slugging me (as a former Studmaster / importer) $4 per vial per month storage fees. 12 remaining vials stored at this particular clinic = $48 a month, or $576 pa.
In the past year, only 2 vials were used/sold. And in this instance we're talking $700 - $800 sires.
So, what to do? Cop the new impost? Flush the supplies down the drain? Who knows?!
Moving right along, and also today, let's relay a story from up in Sunny Qld; where disaster seems to follow disaster...
One of our broods has come in season. A few days in, we've gone through the exercise of registering yet another "Breeding Female" (I figure we can't let them all miss, & that someone has to defy the trend and actually breed a litter).
So this afternoon, I call up two Qld Vets, to find out what the story is now with progesterone testing. We'd previously struck a deal with one of these clinics, to do prog tests for us at a slightly reduced rate. About 18 months ago it was $35 per test, then just before the 'February Armageddon', I was advised these would now be $40 a throw.
So, moving right along to today, what do I get told?
The new Clinic, who we haven't used, would be $66 PER TEST.
So we go back to the Vet where we'd done quite a bit of work previously ... and remember, the last increase (within 12 months) was to $40 a reading
Today, I'm now advised it's now $60 PER TEST (a 50% increase!). Oh, plus if we want to leave the brood overnight so they can test her on consecutive days, that'll be another $24 ... IF WE SUPPLY OUR OWN FOOD!
Fark me, is it any wonder we're battling to get ANYONE to breed a litter?!
Anthony McVicker Australia (Verified User) Posts 1439 Dogs 24 / Races 126 11 Dec 2015 08:30
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Vets are the big winners no doubt
Anthony Jeffress Australia (Verified User) Posts 3669 Dogs 54 / Races 10 11 Dec 2015 08:45
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Lol, doesn't look like Westy is going to be forced to eat stale bread and crackers anytime soon. Over 350 litters between just the top 3 he stands ... and over 200 of those for not-so poor PAW ;-)
Michael Bowerman Australia (Verified User) Posts 4615 Dogs 11 / Races 0 11 Dec 2015 09:05
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Anthony Jeffress wrote:
Mark Schlegel wrote:
Given it took a few months for the backlash and the idiotic new rules to start affecting breeding numbers.....you can safely assume that the Jan, Feb and March figures will be a lot lower next year too.
With no sign of any sort of rebound in breeding we appear to be looking at a PERMANENT reduction in breeding of at least 40-50%!!!
I would suggest that AT LEAST 5-6 tracks will need to close around Australia (though most will be in NSW) and there will have to be a significant reduction in the number of meetings and races held to reflect the insufficient numbers of racing stock.
Congratulations to AA and the insipid morons in charge. You are well on your way to your ultimate goal of destroying this industry!
And I'll add a couple of "dishonorable mentions" to a few representatives from the Vet 'industry'.
Due to massive cutbacks in breeding, it's often taking 2-3 years for some Frozen semen to sell & be utilised.
A well-known Vic Clinic is now slugging me (as a former Studmaster / importer) $4 per vial per month storage fees. 12 remaining vials stored at this particular clinic = $48 a month, or $576 pa.
In the past year, only 2 vials were used/sold. And in this instance we're talking $700 - $800 sires.
So, what to do? Cop the new impost? Flush the supplies down the drain? Who knows?!
Moving right along, and also today, let's relay a story from up in Sunny Qld; where disaster seems to follow disaster...
One of our broods has come in season. A few days in, we've gone through the exercise of registering yet another "Breeding Female" (I figure we can't let them all miss, & that someone has to defy the trend and actually breed a litter).
So this afternoon, I call up two Qld Vets, to find out what the story is now with progesterone testing. We'd previously struck a deal with one of these clinics, to do prog tests for us at a slightly reduced rate. About 18 months ago it was $35 per test, then just before the 'February Armageddon', I was advised these would now be $40 a throw.
So, moving right along to today, what do I get told?
The new Clinic, who we haven't used, would be $66 PER TEST.
So we go back to the Vet where we'd done quite a bit of work previously ... and remember, the last increase (within 12 months) was to $40 a reading
Today, I'm now advised it's now $60 PER TEST (a 50% increase!). Oh, plus if we want to leave the brood overnight so they can test her on consecutive days, that'll be another $24 ... IF WE SUPPLY OUR OWN FOOD!
Fark me, is it any wonder we're battling to get ANYONE to breed a litter?!
dont flush anthony, hold the breeding will turn around,
Mickey McLennan Australia (Verified User) Posts 73 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Dec 2015 11:07
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Hi Anthony, Change where you store your semen. I have 7 straws down at Greenbank about $100 per annum. Another lot (enough for 1 insemination) at Laidley which was just over $100. I am guessing who one vet is, but is the other a Greencross vet??? One vet over this way (show dogs & Greys) doesn't like to part with semen if stored there and charges like a scrub bull for a release. Have tipped 2 other lots I brought in down the sink because I don't think I will ever use them. Hope this helps just a bit.
Also vet prices have skyrocketed with the Pet Insurance Industry now so you are charged a mint since they think that everyone is insured. It is a racket, but again times have changed.
Mickey McLennan Australia (Verified User) Posts 73 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Dec 2015 11:13
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PS Anthony if you know your broodies' cycle there is no need to prog. test every day. Most successful vets know the cycle of a breed and once the readings reach a certain level, they know that you will need to inseminate when a reading reaches xx level. Quite often you will prog. test am and inseminate pm. Sounds like a moneygrab.
Anthony McVicker Australia (Verified User) Posts 1439 Dogs 24 / Races 126 03 Jan 2016 02:22
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AU Stud Dog Service Stats from 1/1/15 to 31/12/15 1989 Services registered 84.9% Frozen 15.15% Nat 274 Different Sires Used 162 Sires or 59% have had 1 or 2 services
** Obviously some from dec 2015 to be registered but a 42% drop in services
Troy Scott Australia (Verified User) Posts 1573 Dogs 19 / Races 36 03 Jan 2016 02:48
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Great work Anthony... What are your and everyone else's thoughts, with what is pretty much a halved breeding sector, do you think this will mean half the races/meetings will occur, or simply more dogs will make it to the track due to less competition? If our tracks are slowed down and have track central lure arms installed (Ref Britton Video) we would most certainly get more out of our dogs, and perhaps tweak the grading system and prize money to encourage people to race slow or slowing (ageing) dogs for as long and often as possible...
Anthony McVicker Australia (Verified User) Posts 1439 Dogs 24 / Races 126 03 Jan 2016 03:25
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on average 8500 dogs race per week to fill meetings in AU and NZ, upto half the meetings and tracks will probably close to meet supply
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
