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Johnathon Campbell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4635 Dogs 5 / Races 2 13 May 2017 23:34
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Jamie Quinlivian wrote:
Yes I see it too, in every area of this country. Australia is the whimpiest, pussiest, most jelly legged, spineless country in the world. Our forefathers would be ashamed.
But what I want to know is this. I have bred 3 litters in 3 years but plan to increase that to about 6 litters per year. The only way I can do that is follow their regulations. What other way is there?
I still believe the only way to have a real voice in the sport is to have seperate representative bodies. That is, a trainers association and a breeders association. Owners don't really need an association, they need to just turn up and get a photo when the dog wins.
Think about this. When GRV send out surveys via email, they collect the results and make decisions based on these results. Someone who owns 2.5% of 1 greyhound must register as an owner. That person gets to do the survey and their answers count just as much as someone who trains 40 dogs or someone who breeds 12 litter per year.
We toe the line, not by choice, but because there is no opposition to any of these regulations when they come out. None. I guarantee one thing, a greyhound trainers association would never have allowed water in the kennel house on raceday in NSW.
I totally disagree in part Jamie. The owners are more important then you make out and every owner be it 2.5% or 100% is important and racing (horses) have identified this. If the owners are not happy (as a group/union) then there is trouble. I am a breeder and owner in both codes (was all theee) and I see the difference at the coal face and the privileges and respect you get as a horse owner is no comparison to owning a dog. Racing WA put up marquees on race days all expenses paid, food, drink and if your horse wins on the day you can pick up $1000 in cash for just being there, tickets to major sporting events are always up for grabs and this brings all owners together (one voice) and when the body talks WA racing listens and changes happen. I've seen none of this in dogs even at a trainers level were you should have a voice? The authority's tell you guys how it is and you guys cannot do Sh@t about it. The proof is always in the pudding and in my life of being involved in horse racing I've never had a visit or a letter from the thoroughbred stewards but the short time I've been in dogs I've had the stewards attend my property with investigators, letters two fines, have been interviewed regarding other people's troubles and rule changes directed at the participants of greyhound racing. I agree with a lot of what Dans says.
Jamie Quinlivian Australia (Verified User) Posts 8727 Dogs 10 / Races 0 14 May 2017 00:13
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I didn't say they weren't important Johnno, I'm saying that owners who have no other role in the sport, shouldn't be consulted when it comes to grading or breeding, etc. An owner who breeds, I would call a breeder. An owner who trains, I would call a trainer.
And I think we all agree with what Dan says about us toeing the line. But again, what other option do we have? And what is the point in repeatedly writing that one here, without making any alternative suggestions? As you say, we have no representative group. None. We need a voice, desperately.
Dan Hollywood Australia (Verified User) Posts 4166 Dogs 3 / Races 3 14 May 2017 00:26
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Jamie there are numerous threads with many suggestions yet I cannot see you or myself sitting in any Control Boards office coming to any agreement. There are numerous participants who have or are supposed to have plenty of knowledge about this industry yet they are usually the first to toe the line, protecting their own interests. Of course you have to look after number one but as a whole the industry will suffer. Nothing is EVER going to change with the current system of government and current product agreements. The industry at a National and state level have every right to control their own destiny and be free of discrimination from the other codes. The evidence of support for the greyhounds is so strong yet nothing is being done to make things right.
Johnathon Campbell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4635 Dogs 5 / Races 2 14 May 2017 01:21
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when you guys work out how it has to be done let me know.
Michael Barry Australia (Verified User) Posts 7405 Dogs 26 / Races 9 14 May 2017 03:33
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there is no lack of confidence in the stud ranks
BARCIA BALE LAST WEEK $3.300
BARCIA BALE THIS WEEK $4.400 so demand must be there
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 14 May 2017 08:57
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Jamie Quinlivian wrote:
I have bred 3 litters in 3 years but plan to increase that to about 6 litters per year. The only way I can do that is follow their regulations. What other way is there?
There IS no other way Jamie....So long as you have money to back your judgement. Go for it.
I wish you all the luck & look forward to reading all your litter updates over the next decade...good or bad.
Darren Langley Australia (Verified User) Posts 3160 Dogs 12 / Races 0 14 May 2017 09:00
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michael barry wrote:
there is no lack of confidence in the stud ranks
BARCIA BALE LAST WEEK $3.300
BARCIA BALE THIS WEEK $4.400 so demand must be there
Wow I didn't see that coming.
Michael Geraghty Australia (Verified User) Posts 4138 Dogs 14 / Races 15 14 May 2017 09:42
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michael barry wrote:
there is no lack of confidence in the stud ranks
BARCIA BALE LAST WEEK $3.300
BARCIA BALE THIS WEEK $4.400 so demand must be there
How many others have had a price hike?
Michael Barry Australia (Verified User) Posts 7405 Dogs 26 / Races 9 21 May 2017 08:24
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i see numbers have picked up again over the last few weeks to 48 , so still a fair bit of breeding happening , and stud fees increasing is a sign of demand ,
Anthony McVicker Australia (Verified User) Posts 1439 Dogs 24 / Races 126 21 May 2017 10:11
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There are only 3-4 stud dogs in demand
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 21 May 2017 10:56
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Anthony McVicker wrote:
There are only 3-4 stud dogs in demand
And stud laws for a maximum of 52 services a 1/4 per sire, were introduced to stop the gene pool from shrinking to just a hand full of sires. That's when the industry was flourishing.
Now that the breeding industry is in tatters and the rule makers don't seem to give a stuff, how long until they cut that current maximum in half ?????
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 21 May 2017 11:21
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michael barry wrote:
i see numbers have picked up again over the last few weeks to 48 , so still a fair bit of breeding happening
Mick.....Jan, Feb & Mar tend to be the best part of the year for whelping's. This has shined true as well when comparing monthly tally's over the past 12 months..............But breeding is still down massively as the table below shows.
Breeding between Jan - Mar this year when compared to the same time 3 years ago (2014) is down by 535 litters or 3317 pups when multiplied by 6.2 (average).
Michael Geraghty Australia (Verified User) Posts 4138 Dogs 14 / Races 15 21 May 2017 12:10
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steven martin wrote:
michael barry wrote:
i see numbers have picked up again over the last few weeks to 48 , so still a fair bit of breeding happening
Mick.....Jan, Feb & Mar tend to be the best part of the year for whelping's. This has shined true as well when comparing monthly tally's over the past 12 months..............But breeding is still down massively as the table below shows.
Breeding between Jan - Mar this year when compared to the same time 3 years ago (2014) is down by 535 litters or 3317 pups when multiplied by 6.2 (average).
They are pretty daunting figures, Steve.
In simple terms, by 2019, if people don't start breeding again(and fast)we will be racing 2-3 DAYS A WEEK.
There will be plenty of real estate for sale.
THIS IS THE REALITY RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES.
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 21 May 2017 19:38
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I can't be much clearer Michael.
These FACTS are not dressed up to suit an agenda...That's them in the raw.
Tony Digiorgio Australia (Verified User) Posts 1008 Dogs 25 / Races 0 21 May 2017 19:49
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michael barry wrote:
i see numbers have picked up again over the last few weeks to 48 , so still a fair bit of breeding happening , and stud fees increasing is a sign of demand ,
If the stud masters start getting too greedy people will walk away and take up another interest. Now is the time for stud fees to drop or at least remain the same if they want the breeding side of the industry to prosper.
Hayden Gilders Australia (Verified User) Posts 993 Dogs 29 / Races 0 26 May 2017 09:21
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is anyone familiar with paws breeding numbers at the moment
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 26 May 2017 09:36
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Tony Digiorgio wrote:
michael barry wrote:
i see numbers have picked up again over the last few weeks to 48 , so still a fair bit of breeding happening , and stud fees increasing is a sign of demand ,
If the stud masters start getting too greedy people will walk away and take up another interest. Now is the time for stud fees to drop or at least remain the same if they want the breeding side of the industry to prosper.
Tony once Semen was allowed to be "split" I thought Stud Fees would have become more reasonable, it didn't happen "money rules".
Anthony McVicker Australia (Verified User) Posts 1439 Dogs 24 / Races 126 26 May 2017 10:51
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If the stud game is that easy or profitable why is there only one left
The top 12 dogs get 80% of the service, the underdog has no chance to show his ability and is only being used by owners due to pride and of the fun.
I am not a fan of any market restrictions, a free market is always better IMO but if this industry is to survive the 216 cap on serves per year needs to be halfed at least in line with the 60% industry shrinkage so far
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 26 May 2017 11:57
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You don't need a Stud Anthony, there is no shortage of Semen collection and storage facilities.
Andrew Varasdi Australia (Verified User) Posts 1287 Dogs 2 / Races 11 26 May 2017 12:15
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I don't get what you are saying Anthony. Are you saying the best way of get more litters bred is to reduce how many services a stud dog can have a quarter by half. If it is I couldn't disagree more.
Just as vehemently as I disagree that bitches can't healthily have more than 3 litters I also disagree with the answee being reducing the number of stud services of the top dogs. Doing that may work in reverse. And because the 5th to 12th most patronised studs are well under their quota, even if it was halved, it's not going to help the new stud dogs which is I think what you want.
our issues aren't about making stud dogs. That's for breeders to decide and frankly for stud masters to make their dogs attractive. The later has not changed. the last four new studs I have heard of are going in at well over $1,200. No incentives to breeders. No changes to pup gaurantees nothing. Same old same old.
It won't happen for 99percent of them. Full stop end of story. Based on fasttrack listings since Jan 1 this year zambora brockie 1, Dalgetty 0, Moreira 6, nitro burst a handful, sulzanti 4 and so on.
Right now there are a heap of really good broods out there that have had three litters that are proven group producers that can't be bred with. Many are 5 years old. Young mums. Nature allows them to keep breeding but they can't.
In the meantime people with average track records are breeding with much poorer stock and producing poor results. 50 percent of pups born roughly still are not named. This is what the ptb are looking at and call wastage.
These are far bigger issue that need to be addressed not limiting the number of services a sire can have.
I am all for putting the number up if it means breeders can use who they like and breed and if it means the percentages go up.
And as an aside but whilst on future stud dogs apart from sulzanti who I like, I love the line of bewildering. His dam line runs very deep which I personally think is critical in a stud and his ability is limitless. I hate to think what he would have run Thursday night if he didn't stumble early.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
