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Andrew Varasdi Australia (Verified User) Posts 1287 Dogs 2 / Races 11 22 Nov 2016 18:58
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Fighters against fighters. What a terrible spectacle and what a terrible advertisement for the sport.
Not for me Kevin.
I would play around with him. Send him to a big place with massive paddocks and let him unwind for a while and enjoy himself then bring him back.
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6013 Dogs 0 / Races 0 22 Nov 2016 19:34
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Kevin Wright wrote:
john staines wrote:
in my opionion this dog will be just as good at stud as he is on the race track or better.
Like Surgeon he will get his chance ..
It is a very fine line between a freak a champion and a non chaser fighter .....
The connection would be so wrapped to have a dog of his ability and yes they should give him the summer months off and try again because as we have all pointed out it is a battle to get one Brood let alone 20 or 30 but we have all seen this before ..
Jezza IS NOT THE FIRST DOG TO DO THIS AND HE WILL NOT BE THE LAST ..
Ok let play devil's advocate here please if i can ...
Why don't we allow Fighters and non chasers to race Only against dogs like minded .....
You will always get a winner regardless what happens ...
People can then still race those dogs even after three fighting convictions and who cares the punter will not care about who sticks its nose in front on the line or not but surely we cannot send these dogs to purgatory any more..
This year and the next will see many dogs fail to chase properly because we have had sires that at times did throw those wayward types but without any tools to assist us today many pups don't chase after spending time on the farms and maybe why not throw on races for dogs with conviction because i can guarantee that the POOLS WILL INCREASE NOT DECREASE because everyone knows each dogs ability if its mind is on the job so the pools will grow because of any punter would bet odds of 5 6 to 1 the field ..
Kevin: I feel the Industry is walking a tight/rope over such issues How close were the Legal Eagles from being involved in the Surgeon win? Stewards erred big time (Negligently?)in not issuing a ticket to surgeon in the heats. (failing to persue) The rest is History. Benefit of the doubt, is very rubbery at best.
Glenn Hatton Australia (Verified User) Posts 4852 Dogs 92 / Races 98 22 Nov 2016 21:54
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Plenty of good producers with a fighting ticket.....injury during a race can be a big factor as to why a dog fights.
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6013 Dogs 0 / Races 0 22 Nov 2016 23:55
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Glenn Hatton wrote:
Plenty of good producers with a fighting ticket.....injury during a race can be a big factor as to why a dog fights.
Quite right Glenn on both points, but the Governing Bodies need to change the Rule. Making or not Making muzzle contact is very weak policy.
Rob Horne Australia (Verified User) Posts 522 Dogs 1 / Races 3 23 Nov 2016 01:22
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Kevin Wright wrote:
john staines wrote:
Ok let play devil's advocate here please if i can ...
Why don't we allow Fighters and non chasers to race Only against dogs like minded .....
You will always get a winner regardless what happens ...
People can then still race those dogs even after three fighting convictions and who cares the punter will not care about who sticks its nose in front on the line or not but surely we cannot send these dogs to purgatory any more..
As a sport we have an image problem. Do you honestly think dog races were dogs are 'allowed' to mar is the solution?
Craig Andrews Australia (Verified User) Posts 2014 Dogs 15 / Races 2 23 Nov 2016 02:23
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That is the worst suggestion I've ever heard, fighter vs fighters.
My original question was will we see him retire now? Perhaps we will and perhaps we won't. Either way he and still is a dog of immense talent.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 23 Nov 2016 02:38
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Craig
You are right about one thing, he is a dog of immense talent.
2 tracks records is testament to that.
Shame is he chased his guts out to get around 3 dogs to get after the leader, did all the donkey work but gave in to stress, fatigue and probably pain (given his reported injuries)right at the end of the race
Some people will probably use him at stud but will it justify retiring him if he can regroup and come back and win one of the real big ones.
Stagger, the iron dog, who had 137 starts for 63 wins and 38 placings also got 3 tickets and has seemed to have forged a reasonable successful stud career serving over 60 bitches after the initial success of his litters
Jesaulenko is already a registered stud dog, so I guess if anyone wants to use him they probably can now.
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 23 Nov 2016 06:10
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He does have brood/s in waiting.
Rich.
Ray Morcomb Australia (Verified User) Posts 1331 Dogs 6 / Races 0 23 Nov 2016 09:19
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He is a great dog, and the absolute only reason having a ticket will affect his stud career is because people will probably go someplace else rather then with him now. I don't believe that it will affect his pups anymore than the next dog. Unless his litter mates were fighters, and his half brothers and sisters were again fighters. Then that would raise serious concern
Darren Langley Australia (Verified User) Posts 3159 Dogs 12 / Races 0 23 Nov 2016 20:38
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Ray Morcomb wrote:
He is a great dog, and the absolute only reason having a ticket will affect his stud career is because people will probably go someplace else rather then with him now. I don't believe that it will affect his pups anymore than the next dog. Unless his litter mates were fighters, and his half brothers and sisters were again fighters. Then that would raise serious concern
I agree with you Ray. All stud dogs have thrown fighters, non chasers but for me it's to much of a gamble when there is so many quality stud dogs out there.
As breeders we always blame the stud dog when our pups are slow, no chasers etc. we all take risks when it comes to breeding but in this day n age I think you need to breed with stud dogs that are going to throw hard chase into pups.
Paul Jennings Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2389 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Nov 2016 21:24
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If a dog like this was at stud in Ireland he wouldn't get any bitches even if he was free. Breeding dogs like this is what leads to Melbourne Cup finals with only 3 dogs actually chasing.
Jan Jones Australia (Verified User) Posts 298 Dogs 9 / Races 0 23 Nov 2016 23:31
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No mention of the dogs on the receiving end of a fighter's actions! That can really dent a dog's confidence.
Glenn Hatton Australia (Verified User) Posts 4852 Dogs 92 / Races 98 23 Nov 2016 23:45
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jan jones wrote:
No mention of the dogs on the receiving end of a fighter's actions! That can really dent a dog's confidence.
It's part & parcel of our sport, unfortunate but true & that's why you have stewards to review races, enforce penalties etc. I hate how people are castigated for the actions of their dogs...nobody wants to see their dog mar but you can't speak to them & ask them not to do it! If this dog Jesaulenko was slow he'd prob be retired by now having 3 strikes, but can you blame owners/trainer for persevering with a dog with so much ability? not the norm in Australia....but I reckon blinkers are a good idea for these dogs
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6013 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Nov 2016 23:52
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Paul Jennings wrote:
If a dog like this was at stud in Ireland he wouldn't get any bitches even if he was free. Breeding dogs like this is what leads to Melbourne Cup finals with only 3 dogs actually chasing.
Paul: So dogs don't Mar (fight) in Ireland? you can breed it out of them? WoW
Cyril John Anderson Australia (Verified User) Posts 281 Dogs 75 / Races 5 24 Nov 2016 01:50
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Isn't it fantastic that this dog finished 2nd to the dog he marred & didn't cost any other dog in the race their deserved prize.
Would we be so supportive if he had collected first prize after doing what he did, yes there can be many genuine reasons for marring but none for repeat offenders.
He is a brilliant dog but unfortunately most dogs who mar are.
How do you as a trainer look the other trainer in the eye & say sorry not my fault.
Many good owners have made the hard decision so as to give everyone a fair go.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 24 Nov 2016 04:44
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well said Cyril
Rob Horne Australia (Verified User) Posts 522 Dogs 1 / Races 3 24 Nov 2016 05:10
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Q. Should a dog found guilty of marring be disqualified from the race?
Phil Hall Australia (Verified User) Posts 1320 Dogs 21 / Races 21 24 Nov 2016 05:32
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Rob Horne wrote:
Q. Should a dog found guilty of marring be disqualified from the race?
no
Darren Langley Australia (Verified User) Posts 3159 Dogs 12 / Races 0 24 Nov 2016 07:29
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Rob Horne wrote:
Q. Should a dog found guilty of marring be disqualified from the race?
Interesting question....... I would say no as it could be Avery grey area a bit like horse racing with protests.
Jamie Quinlivian Australia (Verified User) Posts 8727 Dogs 10 / Races 0 24 Nov 2016 07:40
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I agree. Too hard to say what marring actually is, as evident with a recent RADB decision.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
