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Joseph Dotters Ireland (Verified User) Posts 154 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Dec 2017 15:02
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These balances that I have referred to from both breeds confirmed an earlier held opinion of mine which is that my Leading Sires Tables for the North and South of Ireland and my Leading Sires Tables for Europe show the evolutionary changing landscape of both species better than any other destination on the planet. Racing Greyhounds may leave the shores of the British Isle but their parental sire line descendants could come back one day to play a part in the cyclical system of the racing greyhound that I claim exists similarly racehorses may leave Europe but their parental sire line descendants could come back one day to play a part in the cyclical system of the thoroughbred that I also claim exists. Now in my previous post I wrote that I compiled a Leading Sire Table for the year 1974 as best I could form the information that was at my disposal, that year a greyhound called Monalee Champion was the leading sire now for the thoroughbreds in Europe in 2015 the leading sire was Galileo lets have a look at their two pedigrees CLICK HERE and EXTERNAL LINK . One of the first things I did back in the 1970s was to look at the pedigree of Monalee Champions parental grandsire, so on looking at the pedigree of Hi There CLICK HERE one can see that Staff Officer is 6 - removes back along his parental sire line and also that Staff officer is 6 - removes back along his maternal sire line. Now if Staff Officer had of been an uneven number of removes back along both the parental and maternal sire lines of Hi There then the symmetry that I was subconsciously looking for would not have been present and I would have possibly thought no more about it and would not have made the connection I made. If for instance I had no knowledge whatsoever of the pedigrees of Monalee Champion and Hi There and I had focused entirely on racehorse breeding and similar line of enquiry had led me to focus on the pedigree of Galileo and I had found myself focusing first of all on his parental grandsire Northern Dancer this is what I would have found. Well on looking at the pedigree of Northern Dancer I would have found that just like the pedigree of Hi There the same animal occupies both his parental and maternal sire lines that racehorse is called Phalaris and he is 4 removes back along Northern Dancers parental sire line and 6 removes back along Northern Dancers maternal sire line, so the symmetry that I was subconsciously looking for would not have been there and I would have moved on. Well getting back to Hi There, so you can see that Rare Record is 2 - removes back along Hi Theres parental sire line and Bellas Prince is 2 - removes back along his maternal sire line, so lets have a look at both their pedigrees CLICK HERE and CLICK HERE . Now on looking at both their pedigrees you can see that if Jamie had of been 3 - removes back along the maternal sire line of Dee Chime instead of being the 2 - removes back that he actually is then Jamie would have occupied the exact same two positions 4 - removes back in the pedigree of Rare Record that he occupies 4 - removes back in the pedigree of Bellas Prince. Remember Staff Officer is also 4 - removes back along both the parental sire lines of Rare Record and Bellas Prince, so Jamie would have occupied a position on the maternal sire lines of both Rare Record and Dee Chime and the maternal sire lines of both Bellas Prince and Castledown Lad, remember Bellas Prince is also the sire of Champion Prince. So lets have a look at the 16 ancestors 4 removes back in the pedigree of Monalee Champion as they look on the page.
1 .RARE RECORD 2 .HONEY GALE 3 .BELLAS PRINCE 4 .KEEP RIOT 5 .TANIST 6 MAD DARKIE 7 .MANHATTEN MIDNIGHT 8 .RIPE CHERRY 9. BELLAS PRINCE 10...SALLY WELL 11.. THE GRAND CHAMPI8ON 12...QUARE FIRE 13...DRUMMAN RAMBLER 14...BEAUTY OF PLEASURE 15...RIVERDALE REBEL 16...BOURBAWN
You can see by looking at that list one of the two animals that I have labelled Double Cross Animals in my previous posts namely Bellas Prince is numbered 3 and 9 and Rare Record who I have not described as a Double Cross Animal in my previous post but who actually is one in numbered 1. Now if you remove Raise a Native, Native Dancer and Polynesian completely from the pedigree of Galileo you will see the same symmetry that I have observed while looking at the pedigree of Hi There, so lets do that. Now removing Raise a Native, Native Dancer and Polynesian from the pedigree of Galileo has the effect of moving Unbreakable into the position vacated by Native Dancer in Northern Dancers pedigree and has the effect of moving Unbreakable into the position vacated by Raise a Native in Mr Prospectors pedigree. So if one looks at the pedigree of Northern Dancer with Native Dancer and Polynesian removed EXTERNAL LINK one can see that Cyllene is 6 - removes back along his parental sire line and also 6 - removes back along his maternal sire line. Now you can also see that Nearco is 2 - removes back along Northern Dancers parental sire line and with Native Dancer and Polynesian removed Unbreakable is now also 2 - removes back along his maternal sire line so lets have a look at both their pedigrees EXTERNAL LINK and EXTERNAL LINK . Now looking at both their pedigrees you can see that St Simon occupies the exact same two positions 4 - removes back in the pedigree of Nearco that he occupies 4 - removes back in the pedigree of Unbreakable. Remember Cyllene is also 4 - removes back along both the parental sire lines of Nearco and Unbreakable, so St Simon would have occupied a position on the maternal sire lines of both Nearco and Pharos and a position on the maternal sire lines of both Unbreakable and Sickle. So if Jamie had of been 3 - removes back along the maternal sire line of Dee Chime instead of being the 2 - removes back that he actually is then Jamie would not only have occupied the exact same two positions 4 - removes back in the pedigree of Rare Record that he occupies 4 - removes back in the pedigree of Bellas Prince, in fact he would have occupied the same four position 4 - removes back in the pedigrees of Rare Record and Bellas Prince that St Simon occupies 4 - removes back in the pedigrees of Nearco and Unbreakable. So lets have a look at the 16 ancestors 4 removes back in the pedigree of Galileo as they would look on the page with Raise a Native, Native Dancer and Polynesian removed from his pedigree.
Well I have not explained anything about the racehorse side of things yet but you can see how I would form the opinion that Unbreakable and Nearco could be described as Double Cross Animals which they were Unbreakable being the thoroughbred version of Bellas Prince and Nearco being the thoroughbred version of Rare Record. There is no doubt in my mind that thoroughbred evolution travelled the scenic route by producing Galileo, Northern Dancer and Mr Prospector the way it did and its obvious thoroughbred evolution is up to its old tricks of implementing the same evolutionary manoeuvres in a slightly different way to racing greyhound evolution in the 3rd cycle as to the way that it implemented the same evolutionary manoeuvres in a slightly different way to racing greyhound evolution the 1st and 2nd cycles. Hopefully by concentrating purely on the symmetry that I have given people can bypass the complexity of my findings which they no doubt find daunting and intimidating maybe believing there could be something to Josephs findings after all and that both thoroughbred and racing greyhound evolutions may have indeed evolved the same breed shaping cyclical system obviously for the same reason a cyclical system that Joseph claims he can see in their pedigrees. I think I will call it a day at that but sometime in the future I might produce a book or books chronicling my Journey of Discovery but as the interest in this subject is very thin on the ground I might have to ask for a lot of money for each copy, but will anybody be interested?
Joseph Dotters Ireland (Verified User) Posts 154 Dogs 0 / Races 0 12 Dec 2017 11:34
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On reflection I have had to tweak things a little with this posts.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
