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Do you have questions about breeding theories?
Or do you need tips on how to rear your pups?

Puppy bond is a rip offpage  1 2 3 

Michael Worth
Australia
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Posts 875
Dogs 2 / Races 0

22 Mar 2018 20:52


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I think its terrible that you had to finally make that decision Rob. It really is sad to see someone forced away from something they love. Well done and all the best in the future. I hope greyhounds can still have a part in your life somehow.Cheers



Terry Jordan
Australia
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Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Mar 2018 21:35


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Memo GRNSW: Before even thinking of a Puppy Bond. Please have a look at the Prizemoney Levels at Broken Hill.
Easter Sat: Silver Collar Maiden Heats $230 $70 $40...Final P/M $430
Easter Sat: 5th. Grade Heats, $270 $85 $40....Final P/M $470
These poor buggers are expected to maintain their dogs to the same levels as every City/Tab winners. On SCRAPS! what about Welfare to adequately Feed, keep, and maintain your kennels?


Kenneth Markham
Australia
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Posts 252
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Apr 2018 07:53


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I don't care for personalities but Sandro,Brenton Scott and I believe Mr Ebby Ripper have sold us down the river on this one .If this is the first decision I hate what may follow "prostitution of properties"?Might be all well and good for those who can afford it or have owners who will pay it but this will seriously destroy the grass roots.At Goulburn yesterday there was a flyer about numbers of dogs granted to people.I have a 100 dog licence and if it is impacted the authorities will end up in court.This type of bs makes me angry.


Matt Griffiths
Australia
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Posts 1955
Dogs 56 / Races 2

04 Apr 2018 08:43


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What are they thinking about doing? I know in Queensland there was a rumour about the number of dogs you could keep depending on how many acres you lived on, but it failed miserably. Don't tell me they're going to try to do this in nsw?


Carly Absalom
Australia
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Posts 215
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Apr 2018 09:05


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I notice that the GRV CEO Alan Clayton was pleased with the fact that litter numbers are on the rise in Victoria. In his monthly update for April he said

"Turning now to industry development, I am pleased to announce that as part of our approach to contained breeding, litter numbers are now on the rise again with 542 litters whelped over the past 12 months."

EXTERNAL LINK
So in Victoria they are pleased that litter numbers are on the rise but in NSW they want to introduce a puppy bond which will reduce litters bred.

How is it that one state (VIC) can see the current problem is lack of breeding but the other state (NSW) still thinks overbreeding is the problem?


Carly Absalom
Australia
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Posts 215
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Apr 2018 09:15


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With the puppy bond and what you have just mentioned Kenneth it appears that GWIC are going to continue following the GRNSW motto of "creating tomorrow's problems today".



Malcolm Smart
Australia
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Posts 12802
Dogs 19 / Races 34

04 Apr 2018 09:17


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Carly Absalom wrote:

How is it that one state (VIC) can see the current problem is lack of breeding but the other state (NSW) still thinks overbreeding is the problem?

EXTERNAL LINK


Mark Donohue
Australia
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Posts 3237
Dogs 6 / Races 0

04 Apr 2018 10:04


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It was the Alliance/GBOTA who suggested the Puppy Bond as one of the guarantees to return to racing after the Ban.



Steven Martin
Australia
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Posts 7681
Dogs 180 / Races 66

04 Apr 2018 10:30


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Carly Absalom wrote:

How is it that one state (VIC) can see the current problem is lack of breeding but the other state (NSW) still thinks overbreeding is the problem?

Hi Carly.
As I've suggested plenty of times before...it's all part of a BIG PLAN to lasso the industry into ONE corner of Australia so the industry can be regulated with easy.

That's why all the track in Victoria have been reconstructed in recent time.
That's why Prizemoney levels are second to none In Vic.
What why Boo Baird tried to close down the industry in NSW & also claim all the CROWNLAND those tracks occupied.
That's why the greyhound clubs in Queensland such as Toowoomba, Lawnton, Beenleigh, Mackay, Ayr, Parklands have been stolen one-by-one...& promises in that State made 10 years ago are not worth the paper they were written on.
That's why anybody with a passion to train greyhounds are closing up shop & moving in droves to Victoria......BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SEE A FUTURE ANYWHERE ELSE.

That's my take on it.



Mark Staines
Australia
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Posts 4499
Dogs 70 / Races 14

04 Apr 2018 13:55


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Mark Donohue wrote:

It was the Alliance/GBOTA who suggested the Puppy Bond as one of the guarantees to return to racing after the Ban.

Yes and it was Scott's idea for the Puppy quota of 2000 pups bred per year for racing in NSW.



Simon Moore
Australia
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Posts 2366
Dogs 32 / Races 393

04 Apr 2018 21:45


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yeah, thats when they went into the meeting with baird and begged like fools.
and this guy is still our representative somehow for gods sake.

imagine the difference if peter vlandys was the one. he would given them a gobful and told them the gloves are now off and our fight has just begun.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3237
Dogs 6 / Races 0

04 Apr 2018 22:56


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Steven,

I good theory. If you look at it from a political point of view, from Queensland down to Victoria, the lack of support from current political parties is as follows: ALP, LIB/NAT, GREENS, ALP. Even prior to the last party in office and the usual parties appear. However, you won't find the SFF Party mentioned as being against the greyhound industry.

I suggested it before, the SFF Party should run a couple of candidates in S/E Queensland where most greyhound people are and where most people are discontent with the major parties.



Mick Whyte
Australia
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Posts 1109
Dogs 23 / Races 3

05 Apr 2018 00:43


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simon moore wrote:

yeah, thats when they went into the meeting with baird and begged like fools.
and this guy is still our representative somehow for gods sake.

imagine the difference if peter vlandys was the one. he would given them a gobful and told them the gloves are now off and our fight has just begun.

Exactly the way I see it as well.




Matt Griffiths
Australia
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Posts 1955
Dogs 56 / Races 2

12 Apr 2018 02:28


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There is no need for a puppy bond to stop breeding, just keep the current office staff and breeding will stall. It takes longer to get a pink breeding card than to get the dog dna'd. It took under 3 weeks to do her dna. I sent in her race papers, vaccination card, breeding form and a return addressed express post envelope (which hasn't been sent yet, I took note of the code) over 4 weeks ago. I know they received it all the day after I sent it because it was registered express post also


Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

12 Apr 2018 23:36


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Steven,

Not to divert from the puppy tax issue but it would not be productive to pursue the conspiracy theory about a BIG PLAN. The theme has some validity in NSW but not elsewhere.

You mention five Qld tracks. Four of those shut down for financial reasons and/or lack of support in general. Parklands was resumed by government for hospital expansion but the failure to identify a replacement and use up the guaranteed $10m is disgraceful.

(PS: The loss of Parklands in principle was terrible but you can also take the view that the track was overdue for re-building - main turn and home turn - and that it faced the wrong way (sun) and had no grandstand).

I suppose the NSW government could lower the boom on occupied land but it would be a momentous job - politically and in practice - because many are (a) serving non-racing purposes as well, (b) are subject to other environmental and Council controls and (c) are often on land which is not amenable to development. Even Wenty has multi-purpose occupants. Others like Dapto or Gardens are club or industry owned.

The Victoria has spent big on tracks due to its favourable commission sharing agreements and repeated government grants. Still, it is nice to be able to enjoy that but it is a little artificial.

The most appropriate answer is from Simon (below) who correctly assessed that a gobful from a "V'Landys" was the missing element in NSW negotiations. Expensive bonds for pups is just another example of over-reach - a belts and braces approach to regulation which got through on a false premise - ie alleged overbreeding once again.




Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

18 Apr 2018 22:50


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Here's an additional point for the campaign ...

Currently, the banks are getting hammered for charging for services which did not exist, etc etc.

Go back a short time and the Reserve Bank and ASIC were into them for overcharging for an administrative service - ie moving your money from one spot to another (bank or whatever). The true cost was a fraction of a cent but your account would be debited for a percentage or a significant dollar fee. The banks then changed tack under pressure.

The puppy bond is an administrative charge emerging from a brainwave which wanted to achieve some mythical target - but what target? Not sure. A bond implies it will be repaid at some stage. But when? If you are a good boy? How is that determined? As a threat against those who keep the whelping secret? No, that's not relevant - other rules address that and you can't double up. Against those who fail to dispose of the pup correctly. No, another rule covers that, too. Is it to deter breeding? Well, it could be but that is not something that should be covered by an open-ended administrative charge. It is also a very indirect and inefficient way of skinning the cat. And it is a restraint of trade.

The point is an administrative charge - in common practice - should be related to a specific service and assessed in a logical, supportable way. The puppy bond is not. In fact, if you go back through its ancestry, it all starts with alleged overbreeding and euthanasia numbers - the former being poorly studied and the latter being incorrect due to McHugh mistakes. There is no logic, it is all emotion.

By comparison, a licensing fee is related to office costs, which is OK. Fines are related to specific offences (and contestable anyway) but must be reasonable. And so on. But a puppy bond relates to nothing much. At best, it is an insurance fee against some unknown future event. That is not reasonable. It should be challenged in its entirety. It needs a "gobful".

Should GRNSW then persist with the charge it must be painted as a destroyer of NSW breeding and racing, which is the exact opposite of what its charter says it should be. It would be breaching its own code. Injunctions could be considered.



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