CLICK HERE You will see almost all carry in there dam HB COMMANDER ...

If you take a look at his second top offspring CLICK HERE
You will see why it's the xfactor is there and why it works and what lines it works best with ..

Avatars and Infareds Top Off Spring also show you a road map to follow

Why reinvent the wheel when all you have to do is follow what is already out there working today ...

CLICK HERE CLICK HERE

It's not about reinventing the wheel Kevin , it's about trying to find a genetically valid reason why a niche or cross may work. If you don't have that reason why something may work then you are guessing or you may draw incorrect conclusions why a mating may work. But hey each to their own.

Now you are suggesting why it worked but lets face it you had no idea a few years ago but how times change...

You now are looking outside the square and this was something you never used to do Ryan ..

I have always looked outside the square in fact i was one of the people pumping up the USA bred sires a few years ago when you were knocking them all ..

I was a huge rap for Demon Bale and his litter for example. Cheers.

Now you have some Xand Y to use for examples but once again you are chasing something that is not proven either way and all i say for people to do is to have a look at what has worked for years back and forth it continues today and it just so happens the Sire of Sires today is Kiowa Mon Manny now tell us ryan what made him that carrier of these genes and not some other Flying Penske son ..

Kiowa Mon Manny's bloodline is getting better each generation so tell us why this happens to some and not to other sires and then if you can work it all out then you will make a million bucks selling your breeding idea's Ryan ...

There is no one idea or formula that works and you have to first see the second top Offspring to really understand how it all works ....

If you have looked at the links i have provided you will see what works and what don't work ,

Ryan if we all followed your breeding theories years ago then we would not have the sires and dogs we have today .....

You get paid for breeding advice i don't .....

In conclusion Ryan
We are not experts and no one is trying to sway people away from your breeding theories but i use everything available to me when designing a mating you seem to just follow your X and Y breeding ideologies....You my friend are in the square and you don't realize it ...
Have a great 2019 Ryan

and only a post later, I'm back in the square

Kevin Wright wrote:

....You my friend are in the square and you don't realize it ...

hahahaha.........all the best in 2019 to You and Yours Kevin, sincerely. Cheers.

I actually thought he had alot more runners than 125 for Ire/UK and Aus. Needs alot more to really Judge.

From an Elsie Moss perspective WNS carries a number of Temlee in x Kev, and places Elsie Moss within 12 generations with the mating CLICK HERE . The litter wld be in x through litterm8's Max/Joe & Mister Moss. Cheers.

Sorry to side track this debate but who updates the top offspring of a sire on data cause I know Fabios stats of his top offspring are completely out of whack and dont show a true reflection so would this be the same for all sires cause if so its a bit useless using these stats to prove a point

Its a tool to use and the second top Offspring do show a road to follow ..

Have good 2019

Ryan

Wasn't one of your best dogs by Fortified Speed?

I remember Len saying to me he was standing there waiting to trial him before he bagan racing and a top trainer walked past and said "gee that's a nice looking pup Len, whats he by ?"

Len replied "Fortified Speed"

Top trainer: "Well that's the end of that then !"

I still laugh about that, thx for the memory, but Kevin will probably say he doesn't count he's half Irish. I wonder which one of us has an agenda ummmm. Good point you make! cheers.

Not to trying to stir the pot but just remembered you always mentioned this dog you bred by Fortified Speed who did well for you

Interested in thoughts

Hi rob

My rule is straight away with an outcross , give em time

A blunt example is put 2 pups together , one being a Barcia Bale and the other a full outcross

Itll smack you in the face the difference in time needed for growing ,maturing and finding its stride or groove as an all round athlete with an outcross

In the same breathe Im not saying back off your avatar

I would have taken him to a bullring at 6 mths to play and get comfortable with the arm !
It helps massively later with progress in all areas , travelling ,people , lead work ,collar work and being outgoing !

But here you are at 1 year

If you arent doing it yourself from 6 mths old and taking time and hes being sent away for 4-6 weeks

Id let him grow a bit until 14mths

Id be specific with who I sent it to in the fact that you arent interested in pushing him in times and distance

Youd rather more time at a slow rate spent on box work

Hes 14 mths old if you are looking at the best interest of your dog and remembering hes an outcross , the time he runs at breaker means absolutely nothing at that age

He is going to improve 10 lengths from then until he hits 2

They are all different rob in the head so in terms of being slow to come to hand is everybodys own opinion on their own pup

In switching on I would say they are naturals
Everything else yes I would say give em time ! And dont be disappointed early on in results

As long as the drill is being completed that you have set and he is sound is the main thing

The rest will take care of itself !

Sorry if elaborating on areas not interested in
Cheers

No worries rob

Another thing rob Ive just remembered and i think its quite important

Theres a lot of reports they can be or are very relaxed

This rings true with mine and a few others in the same litter

With these traits I found ,like your finding now with yours is I remember when I did work with all my dogs that the avatar being relaxed I would find myself doing more work or Id push him in repeating the drill until he displayed the same as the others !

After a while I caved and I just let him do it at his own pace and style

But I did go through a period of pushing with him in particular and it wasnt until I backed off and went for minimal drills and really enjoying them in that moment ! in comparison with a lot of drills and being disappointed a lot of the time ,that he really found himself

They dont need much ,just quality

They are not a constant high voltage dog

Ok cheers good luck