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Still born pups
Tom Samantzis Australia (Verified User) Posts 43 Dogs 1 / Races 0 22 Jun 2019 00:48
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Hello forum Im new to the greyhound industry and would like some input from members. I have bought an ex racing bitch, Hazy Daisy that has fantastic breeding, mothers progeny have won nearly half a million in prize money. I have had her mated with Aston Dee Bee and the 2 pups she was carrying died inside her around the 57th day. Had a Caesarian to get the out. My question is should I try to breed with her again? And what could had caused her to lose the pups? She was ultrasounded at 6 weeks and it was showing her carrying 5-6 pups. Have no idea what happened to the others as only 2 dead pups were found inside her. Any comments, advice would be appreciated.
Carole Brown Australia (Verified User) Posts 32355 Dogs 185 / Races 2 22 Jun 2019 01:10
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Tom, that's bad news. Did you have a vaginal swab done on her prior to mating or insemination ? This usually picks up any problem/infection which can be treated beforehand, and had the previous owner tried to breed her before you got her ? When did you have the caesar done ? Was it at full term ? If you could feel other pups at 6 weeks, they should have still been there or her uterus would probably have been a mess. You will get other breeders offering helpful information for you, but do make sure she is well clear of any infection before you do breed from her again. Just a thought, did she go into labour at all, as I know of several cases where a bitch would eat pups born dead. Not common, but can happen, and could possibly explain what happened to the other pups ?
Tom Samantzis Australia (Verified User) Posts 43 Dogs 1 / Races 0 22 Jun 2019 02:11
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Hi Carole I had her checked and inseminated at Craigieburn vet clinic. This was her first litter. She began nesting last Tuesday but also discharging black drops, so it took her to vet. They ultrasounded her and told me they could see 3 pups heartbeat but not the other 2. They ran some tests and told me she was 8.8 so been below 10 they could perform a caesarean and get the pups out. An hour later they advised she only had 2 pups and both were dead. They also told me that pups would had been dead 3-4 ago by the conditions they were. Its been 3 days since and she is still discharging some black liquids and I have her on antibiotics. Shes not too comfortable at times and has growled at me a few times whilst Im changing her bedding. This morning shes a lot better, having eaten a meal and actually walked outside to empty out. First 2 days no food and only urinated. Concerned with her aggressive behaviour and still looking drugged out. Hopefully she will recover in the next few days. I have her heated at 20C and a surveillance camera monitoring her.
Keith Lloyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 1326 Dogs 54 / Races 3 22 Jun 2019 02:29
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Have her tested for neospora. Will cause her to abort the pups. I had a bitch many years who was diagnosed with neospora when she raced. Treated her and successfully raced again. When she bred she still had it and aborted the pups with 7 days to go.
Dick Ciampa USA (Team Member) Posts 798 Dogs 15458 / Races 3395 22 Jun 2019 02:44
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The female can absorb the pups. I don't know much about it, but I know Kristin Block, who bred and raised thousands of pups used to talk about it from time to time.
If you google it you can get some information about it.
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 22 Jun 2019 05:23
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dick ciampa wrote:
The female can absorb the pups. I don't know much about it, but I know Kristin Block, who bred and raised thousands of pups used to talk about it from time to time.
If you google it you can get some information about it.
I tell all of my buyers to always make sure the bitches Progesterone levels stay high POST insemination until the pups are born i insist the people do this or NO RETURN serve ...Some bloodlines carry this more so than other bloodlines in Greyhounds ..
Best summed up by Mick Bell Hypoluteodism: A lack of sufficient progesterone to maintain pregnancy has been known to cause pregnancy loss. Care must be taken when assessing this as the cause of abortion because the progesterone level declines rapidly following abortion from any cause. In bitches progesterone higher than 2ng/ml is required to maintain pregnancy, and values higher than 20 ng/ml are common. It is often advisable to monitor the progesterone level at least weekly when progesterone levels fall to 5 to 10 ng/ml. Supplementation has to be given when progesterone levels fall to 5 ng/ml with more than a week of gestation left. Ideally progesterone supplementation should be avoided during the first trimester of pregnancy due to the risk of masculinising female fetuses. Progesterone supplementation has to be stopped 2 to 3 days before expected parturition so that fetuses are not retained for too long and milk production is not suppressed. Care should also be taken in the progesterone supplement administered so as to reduce the chance of side effects to the fetuses.
Michael Barry Australia (Verified User) Posts 7402 Dogs 26 / Races 9 22 Jun 2019 08:26
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Kevin Wright wrote:
dick ciampa wrote:
The female can absorb the pups. I don't know much about it, but I know Kristin Block, who bred and raised thousands of pups used to talk about it from time to time.
If you google it you can get some information about it.
I tell all of my buyers to always make sure the bitches Progesterone levels stay high POST insemination until the pups are born i insist the people do this or NO RETURN serve ...Some bloodlines carry this more so than other bloodlines in Greyhounds ..
Best summed up by Mick Bell Hypoluteodism: A lack of sufficient progesterone to maintain pregnancy has been known to cause pregnancy loss. Care must be taken when assessing this as the cause of abortion because the progesterone level declines rapidly following abortion from any cause. In bitches progesterone higher than 2ng/ml is required to maintain pregnancy, and values higher than 20 ng/ml are common. It is often advisable to monitor the progesterone level at least weekly when progesterone levels fall to 5 to 10 ng/ml. Supplementation has to be given when progesterone levels fall to 5 ng/ml with more than a week of gestation left. Ideally progesterone supplementation should be avoided during the first trimester of pregnancy due to the risk of masculinising female fetuses. Progesterone supplementation has to be stopped 2 to 3 days before expected parturition so that fetuses are not retained for too long and milk production is not suppressed. Care should also be taken in the progesterone supplement administered so as to reduce the chance of side effects to the fetuses.
LIZ BROWN, the vet from casino , is an expert in this field ,
Carole Brown Australia (Verified User) Posts 32355 Dogs 185 / Races 2 22 Jun 2019 11:03
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Tom, did you get her swabbed before mating, and did she have an immunisation to protect the pups ?
Tom Samantzis Australia (Verified User) Posts 43 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Jun 2019 07:51
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Hi Carole she did have immunisation 2 weeks before mating. No swab done and vet did not advised me to do so.
Carole Brown Australia (Verified User) Posts 32355 Dogs 185 / Races 2 23 Jun 2019 09:28
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Tom, that is very unfortunate, as it is usually always done to exclude any infection before being mated. If there is anything present, it can be cleared up beforehand. Next time, make sure that you get her vaginal swab done when she first comes in again, to be on the safe side. Also, at what stage did you worm her when she was pregnant ? Hope she is improving now.
Tom Samantzis Australia (Verified User) Posts 43 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Jun 2019 12:02
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Thanks Carole, she was wormed at 2 weeks and again at 7 weeks, on vets advise. Daisy is doing ok, almost full recovery.
Sam Watson Australia (Verified User) Posts 315 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Jun 2019 22:21
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Tom Samantzis wrote:
Hi Carole she did have immunisation 2 weeks before mating. No swab done and vet did not advised me to do so.
That's disappointing from the vet, I would recommend using Sandown in future for your matings, they are leaps and bounds ahead of Craigeburn in terms of service and knowledge. They've been very professional with every litter i have done (5 so far)
Michael Bell at Craigeburn is good but he is always flat out
Carole Brown Australia (Verified User) Posts 32355 Dogs 185 / Races 2 23 Jun 2019 22:50
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Tom, people can worm the pregnant bitch differently. Some do it before whelping, once at 6 weeks, and again straight after whelping, along with doing the puppies at one week of age to start with. Some use Panacur liquid, too. What did you use ? Others, including myself, worm the bitch before mating, then at 4 weeks and 6 weeks, and then as above. I am not too happy with doing her as early as 2 weeks, but that is just my opinion. Hope you have much better luck with your next litter, and that your bitch continues to improve. Actually, she may go off her food later on, as she will produce milk, and this can affect her appetite for a while. Seeing as she will produce milk and have no puppies drinking from her, watch out for mastitis, as she could possibly develop that problem, which will need vet attention.
Tom Samantzis Australia (Verified User) Posts 43 Dogs 1 / Races 0 24 Jun 2019 06:34
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
