Despite journalists' denials, it's now pretty much a fact that journalism is one of the most left-wing of all professions

Dont support the Newspapers dont share their content dont talk about their content ......Keep producing the facts and we win the War ..

John,

John,

I dont subscribe to the Herald Sun so I cant see the whole article although I used to buy it before race results went on the internet. I agree that the message sems disappointing, especially as the paper has generally been very cooperative with the greyhound industry, as I understand it. The Black Caviar-Miata promotion comes to mind.

However, skipping over some odd details, both the newspapers in question here were essentially correct so far as the writers could tell. They had authoritative confirmation of the main principles involved ie from Judge McHugh of the NSW Special Commission. In other words, no-one has told the Judge (and his offsider) formally that he is talking rubbish. Consequently, every man and his dog continue to repeat the errors and misconceptions including the Minister, the Premier, the re-homing lady, the RSPCA, AA, the Greens and the media at large.

If you go back to my 20 Feb post you can read my thoughts on that.

In short, the industry has been too lazy, too sloppy and too incompetent to recognise that there is an information gap and therefore has failed to fill it. Worse, GA once published lots of historical industry data (but not on euthanasia) but not only has it stopped doing that but it has removed all the stats pages from its website. (NB: What is written on this blog does not count I am pretty sure the public do not read it).

If an industry does not produce good information and make it readily available to all and sundry it must expect people to get things wrong. So they do. The problem is the bloke in the mirror.

(PS: Who is Duncan?).

(PPS: Going back to Robson, it is notable that some of his info was sourced from statements by Premier Baird ie re worldwide racing activity. That was badly wrong, too. Curiously, a far more accurate list can be found on the Grey2K website. Still, I suppose a journalist would expect a state Premier to speak the truth. This one did not and, for that, was criticised by the Auditor General).

Yes, sorry. I was looking for someone with that first name. But good for her.

Essentially (although it is no longer stated specifically), Greyhounds Australasia looks after a limited number of background operational areas, including National Racing Rules, greyhound names and the Stud Book, while the individual states do everything else notably building tracks, running races and handling commercial deals.

GA has voted itself no commercial authority. In fact, it has no authority at all. Whatever is decided at its secretive quarterly meetings must be returned to the member states for approval. Even the Racing Rules dont mean a lot as by law the states also have their own Rules and they will automatically take precedence over the National version.

So, yes, it is our only peak body, but it can perform only as authorised by the member states. You might say Dad is in charge but it is really Mum who makes all the important decisions.

While GA gets asked for comment and talks to outside organisations (eg governments, Grey2K, media) that is not actually its responsibility, as such, unless the states first say so. Consequently, an outside party could well ask for views from six or seven organisations and get a different answer from each or none. In reality, GA may well not be qualified to supply answers anyway. It is not an industry manager but merely a processing arm.

The outcome is that no one organisation is able or empowered to tell you what the national breeding numbers are or how much euthanasia is taking place. They all used to tell GA about industry performance figures but now even that is not happening (not since 2015). All you can get are bits and pieces from individual states, usually late and only if you are lucky.

Apart from anything else, this adds up to a PR disaster. It's worth remembering that when you get uptight about what the media says.

Figures that were proven to be incorrect anyway due to lack of proper tracking and recording systems.

If they were prepared to report unbiasedly, they would have drawn a line at pre-LB figures and then sought figures form each as to pups born and euthanasia rates, done a simple mathematical calculation and come up with post- LB figures

One thing I do agree with you is that GA should take more responsibility in collating these figures from each state and publishing national figures broken by each State

Even though you say you are a journalist, you can't defend journalists for publishing something that is substantially and factually incorrect especially if you have the future of greyhound racing at heart as well

Sandro,

Nearly all the figures in the article were not Robson's but contained in quotes from others, including the re-homing lady, Judge McHugh, Premier Baird, GRNSW (Newson never checked them) and RSPCA. He had attempted to get confirmation (which is standard journalistic procedure) by contacting GA but that effort failed, too - not only failed but he was advised they did not exist because they were still trying to sort them out. What on earth could he do better?

Moreover, the Vic department head (Milne) who dreamed up the crazy "overbreeding" claim was similarly at fault, as was Clayton who subsequently copied them (although he later changed his mind). Perna did much the same. The actual breeding data was all there at his fingertips. Always had been and were comprehensive analysed and quoted by me in articles and reports - to no avail.

Also bear in mind that the basic Baird/Grant banning decision was not just based on the numbers in McHugh's report but on a succession of nasty cases of killings in the bush at different locations. But I digress.

I am horrified that this stuff keeps emerging after nearly five years and numerous efforts by me and others to highlight the errors. But to blame the users of the info, or lack of it, is pointless. The fault is entirely that of the industry itself, starting with the ridiculous report by GA.

And, for the hundredth time, I am not a journalist, which embraces formal qualifications. Amongst other things, I am a writer. However, I am aware of formal journalism ethics and research lots of stuff related to writing from plagiarism to defamation to authors' rights to ethics and writing practice. I have half a bookshelf devoted to that area.

Anyway, the big problem is not just collating figures, although that is bad enough. The killer is that greyhound authorities do not recognise the need to spread the word professionally. This is an industry which concentrates almost entirely on preaching to the converted.

PS: I doubt that pre-LB euthanasia figures would be available or reliable. But it matters little. There is insufficient data post-LB to compare them with.

One more thing for perspective.

The original GA memo did not actually contain "incorrect" figures. The problem was that it did not sufficiently emphasise the fact that they reflected clerical shortcomings in the system and were no more than numbers they could not verify- eg dogs reclining on the owner's couch.

As a result, McHugh and everyone else jumped on a bandwagon that the 18,000 or whatever numbers were all or mostly euthanased dogs. It went from a small story to a coronavirus exercise, popping up all over the place.

That's what happens when you don't tell a decent story in the first place. (To say nothing about the accompanying idiotic GA proposal that all states should cut breeding by one third).

Of all the peculiar things that have happened over the last five years, the most sensible story is the one just put out by Robson - providing you accept that it contains some errors or misconceptions that you or I know about but that a reporter would not and could not. That's why I gave him a pass mark - not perfect but as good as you could expect.

The bonus is that Robson then gave great publicity to the re-homing effort - something which is central to the code's future, never mind who does it - especially given the recent bad publicity given to horses.

He knew I had been involved in dogs and in fact I got our m8 and now himself involved with a greyhound syndicate. He said he was at the Meadows with friends where they have some sort of function room with a view of the 500m boxes. He noticed one of his mates wife had organised a lift back for her husband and took the car and left for home after race 3.

Later he found out the reason she had left their function so early was because she didn't agree with how the dogs were being handled at the start by the trainer as they were often jerked by the lead, grabbed and shoved into the starting boxes.

You clda knocked me over with a feather as it's something I hadn't even considered wld offend anyone that much whereby they wld have to leave an expected good night out.

It just disappointed me with everyone trying so hard to get this great industry back on its feet that there is still so much to do to educate the public....she didn't make any fuss, she quietly got up organised a lift home for her husband and left.

Are we still doing things so wrong in this industry ? I dunno why but things like this worry me, because obviously she's a sensible person and didn't react other than to just get up and leave because she didn't agree with how the trainers handled their dogs behind the boxes.

Are we that insensitive to people outside the industry STILL, in that we don't have much idea at all what they expect of us ?

Anyway I was floored by her left field reaction, so thought I'd post for hopefully some sensible discussion. I know I'm prob asking way too much. lol. cheers.

Perhaps, GRV could contact her for an opinion. I could write more, but Id been on a hiding to nothing.

Having put myself out in public more than most, and being quite willing to hear the complaints of others, I must admit I'd never heard that one before. I mean, most of them are just led to the boxes, take the lead off and put them in. The ones that are the most difficult are generally the ones that want to race the most but are too excited to be put in the boxes.

Although, in saying that thoroughbred racing in Australia definitely has a blind spot with loading them into the barriers compared to the Yanks. When I went to Del Mar, every horse is paraded by a second horse to help them get into the barriers. Amazing how much calmer they are and how much quicker they are to load. So, maybe it's something that could be improved if a bit of thought was put into it, but I'm not really sure how.

My comments arent meant to belittle the woman as everyone sees things differently. I apologise if it comes across that way.

I think she is being a bit precious.

Was she certain that the dogs were being hurt by the 'treatment'?

I am sure the handlers weren't trying to hurt or stress their dogs as they are racing for a minimum $6k first prize

Maybe she should get her handlers licence and she can teach us all a lesson

She obviously didn't want to be there in the first place...just because it didn't suit her sensitivity means that everyone needs to change.

I agree Sandro that she was being a little precious and she may have thought that herself, which is probably why she extricated herself from the situation with no fuss.

Apparently she said she "didn't agree with how the dogs were being handled behind the boxes" it didn't have anything to do with dogs being hurt, more about the dogs not being respected when in fact it's quite the opposite as we all know.

They are in their fortys and I think go out together as a group to various functions so I don't think she was anti but it was the first time she had observed how dogs were loaded into the boxes.

Even my wife who doesn't know much about handling dogs said hasn't she ever buckled a child into a car seat ?

I think it may have been some nervous energy being passed onto the dog by various trainers jerking the dog by the lead trying to get them to switch on perhaps prior to being loaded into the boxes and the loading process is best if done in 'step type' motions again to get the dogs mind on the job and position them correctly....its the trust, respect and professionalism required between dog & trainer with the loading process that she didn't understand imo.....boy I don't envy the public education process GRV and the like are faced with and like Nathan said 'I'd never heard that one before' either and was taken aback when it was put to me in those terms - 'she didn't agree with how the dogs were being handled behind the boxes' ummmm !

It's obviously important, as far as educating the public are concerned, that every facet of greyhound racing is broken down into terms they can understand and accept if we are to thrive as an industry in the future.

Mark, I've never met her so don't know her views on horse racing.

Malcolm, what can I say, other than bhahahaha

Cheers guys, Thx for the responses.

You know what Ryan, that's probably the truest statement I have ever read in this Forum

After dealing with the myriad of anti's on Facebook who act as Do-Gooder Re-homers, it is patently obvious how little they actually know about racing and the greyhound's DNA itself

I respect quite a few of them and especially those make an attempt to understand racing and are all about re-homing and re-training the dog for pet life

Even those can be hard work at times, it's like every action has to be explained and justified

I have never seen any industry under so much scrutiny

If there was as much energy put into cleaning up the worlds oceans from islands of plastic waste that kill sea-life unnecessarily, the oceans of the world would be absolutely pristine

Exactly what I was going to say Ryan. Some handlers have a routine prior to loading the dogs into the boxes that they've been using for years and they believe helps the dogs chances at box rise. I know I did before I hung up the lead'n'collar 10 years ago, which included ruffing certain dogs up to make them focus.

This particular issue I've never heard of before & probably never will again.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion just like that lady.

I believe (like some have suggested) that this lady didn't want to be there in the first place...Maybe the sight of crowds & the Corona Virus played apart.

The ABC and Bairds misinformation was shit that was thrown at us. The lady's response could be from the ongoing conditioning from supposedly reputable organisations RSPCA Peta ABf'nC etc

Some percentage of the original shit has stuck.

It's part and parcel of a world gone soft.

if they (antis) can get her vote so easily why cant we get her and people like her to accept g/hound racing? why cant we win them over?

saying they are anti's and the like is an easy way out for us imo.most aren't born anti's.

we cannot afford people to walk out after race 3 because our product disgusts them, we gotta do whatever it takes to get em there and keep them to race 10.....that's the challenge.