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Do you have questions about breeding theories?
Or do you need tips on how to rear your pups?

Sire stats 4 Vic trackspage  1 2 3 


Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
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Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

18 Jun 2020 22:23


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Winners per runners. Metro tracks.

AUSSIE INFRARED 129%
WORM BURNER 100%
WALK HARD 87%
FERNANDO BALE 85%
BLACK MAGIC OPAL 82%
KC AND ALL 79%
MEPUNGA BLAZER 78%
OAKS ROAD 78%
MOREIRA 77%
ALLEN DEED 73%
COLLISION 67%
MAGIC SPRITE 55%
KINLOCH BRAE 55%
BARCIA BALE 54%
MY BRO FABIO 49%
DYNA DOUBLE ONE 48%
EL GRAND SENOR 47%
FABREGAS 44%
BELLA INFRARED 42%
BANJO BOY 26%

Winners per runners. All Vic tracks.

EL GRAND SENOR 200%
AUSSIE INFRARED 180%
FERNANDO BALE 171%
BLACK MAGIC OPAL 165%
BELLA INFRARED 162%
BARCIA BALE 153%
WALK HARD 152%
TURANZA BALE 150%
ALLEN DEED 135%
KINLOCH BRAE 134%
MOREIRA 132%
BANJO BOY 128%
COSMIC RUMBLE 122%
SPRING GUN 120%
DYNA DOUBLE ONE 116%
FABREGAS 114%
STAGGER 113%
COLLISION 108%
MY BRO FABIO 107%
MAGIC SPRITE 103%

Stats taken from Fasttrack. Only from 1/1/20 onwards.
Some very good value sires around.




Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 19486
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

18 Jun 2020 22:34


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Jamie

Those sires have always been there when presented on a % basis...problem is everyone plays the Shaun The Sheep show and follows the pack and the hype

Out of the big boys Fernando Bale has always punched above his weight and can get dogs to win from 400m-700m

He is a great sire but Aussie Infrared, Walk Hard and Worm Burner are definitely punching high above their popularity level



Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 1342
Dogs 154 / Races 139

18 Jun 2020 23:17


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Only worth so much...gets you a ticket in the lottery!

This 300m bitch went to the worst on the list Banjo Boy and produced a star litter. Yet nowhere near as good to top 5 Black Magic Opal.

EXTERNAL LINK

Do your homework and you can decidedly increase your chances of success!...regardless of sire %



Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
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Posts 5956
Dogs 8 / Races 0

19 Jun 2020 00:32


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Very true Darren.

Just to expand on that pedigree a little, if you look down that damline you'll notice Hogmania CLICK HERE (by Miagi). Hogmania ran 2nd in the Group 2 Galaxy over 715m.

Banjo through his sires dam Blue Girl Vane nicks with Miagi CLICK HERE whereby 15 of the 16 dogs(approx. 94%), in the 5th generation of Blue Girl Vane's pedigree are cross duplicated in Miagi's pedigree.

What this means is Blue Girl Vane reintroduces Miagi at an extremely high percentage back into the same damline that created Hogmania through different individuals in Miagi's pedigree, this time to create Big Flood and his litter mate Brueghelino who not only won in fast time over 500m but also 600m at the Meadows.

Sire selection shld not be a nos game as it was in the past. Greater pedigree research, in addition to sire stats, along with matching temperaments of sire and dam etc., shld be considered with a view to decreasing wastage in the current climate.....iow do your homework thoroughly in all areas and hopefully increase your chances.

Great example Darren and well said.




Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
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Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

19 Jun 2020 01:17


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Totally agree, sire selection should not be a numbers game, which is why I highlighted the percentages, not just bulk number of wins.

If I was looking to sell a litter, I just go to Fernando or Barcia like everyone else. But if I want to breed a litter to keep and race, the percentages certainly helps to make the decision.
Aussie Infrared, Walk Hard, Allen Deed, Mepunga Blazer, Moreira, Worm Burner, even the old boys Oaks Road and El Grand Senor are dogs I would look at, given their winning percentages. I think those numbers carry greater weight that wins only.
Of course, the pedigrees, proven nicks and personalities must be the first consideration.



Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 19486
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

19 Jun 2020 01:26


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Jamie Quinlivian wrote:

Totally agree, sire selection should not be a numbers game, which is why I highlighted the percentages, not just bulk number of wins.

If I was looking to sell a litter, I just go to Fernando or Barcia like everyone else. But if I want to breed a litter to keep and race, the percentages certainly helps to make the decision.
Aussie Infrared, Walk Hard, Allen Deed, Mepunga Blazer, Moreira, Worm Burner, even the old boys Oaks Road and El Grand Senor are dogs I would look at, given their winning percentages. I think those numbers carry greater weight that wins only.
Of course, the pedigrees, proven nicks and personalities must be the first consideration.

Funny you mention Oaks Road

We are involved in the mating for this litter

EXTERNAL LINK


Carole Brown
Australia
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Posts 32355
Dogs 185 / Races 2

19 Jun 2020 01:48


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Ryan, you might be interested in a PM I sent you, if you have time to answer on here. Thanks



Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
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Posts 5956
Dogs 8 / Races 0

19 Jun 2020 05:26


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No worries Carole.

At a quick glance Brett Lee seems to be a huge influence not with just Dalgetty but also with Blinkers On, both Group performers.

Blinker's On from the same damline CLICK HERE is a good place to start as Dalgetty's dam Instructed First saturates BO's sires dam at a very high 88% in the 5th gen CLICK HERE I've used Spiritual Rumble's brother Collide to illustrate this.

In the 5th generation you'll notice every dog in red is cross duplicated, you'll also notice Dusty Rapid (in black) also cross duplicated if you check the blood quota table below. This means 14 of the 16 lines(approx 88%) in the 5th gen is cross duplicated.

Instructed First is reintroducing Cosmic Rumble (thru his dam Spiritual Rumble) at a very high percentage back into this damline.

Now I say Brett Lee is an influence because of this CLICK HERE once again Dusty Rapid is cross duplicated if you look at the blood quota table below.....that's 94% Brett Lee's pedigree saturated in the 5th generation (15 of the 16 lines) by dogs in Instructed First's ped, and we know the influence Brett Lee had on Cosmic Rumble's grandam Rumble Spirit that resulted with Collide's litter and in turn Blinkers on.

I shld add covering Brett Lee's damline by cross duplicating I'm Blessed like that is a rarity. I haven't seen it much lately if at all.

Keep well Carole.



Mark Mihailovic
Australia
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Posts 698
Dogs 1 / Races 0

19 Jun 2020 07:26


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Jamie Quinlivian wrote:

Winners per runners. Metro tracks.

AUSSIE INFRARED 129%
WORM BURNER 100%
WALK HARD 87%
FERNANDO BALE 85%
BLACK MAGIC OPAL 82%
KC AND ALL 79%
MEPUNGA BLAZER 78%
OAKS ROAD 78%
MOREIRA 77%
ALLEN DEED 73%
COLLISION 67%
MAGIC SPRITE 55%
KINLOCH BRAE 55%
BARCIA BALE 54%
MY BRO FABIO 49%
DYNA DOUBLE ONE 48%
EL GRAND SENOR 47%
FABREGAS 44%
BELLA INFRARED 42%
BANJO BOY 26%

Winners per runners. All Vic tracks.

EL GRAND SENOR 200%
AUSSIE INFRARED 180%
FERNANDO BALE 171%
BLACK MAGIC OPAL 165%
BELLA INFRARED 162%
BARCIA BALE 153%
WALK HARD 152%
TURANZA BALE 150%
ALLEN DEED 135%
KINLOCH BRAE 134%
MOREIRA 132%
BANJO BOY 128%
COSMIC RUMBLE 122%
SPRING GUN 120%
DYNA DOUBLE ONE 116%
FABREGAS 114%
STAGGER 113%
COLLISION 108%
MY BRO FABIO 107%
MAGIC SPRITE 103%

Stats taken from Fasttrack. Only from 1/1/20 onwards.
Some very good value sires around.


Would it change a few of those sires at the top of the table percentage if they got a decent amount of there progeny to race in town?
Maybe/maybe not but prob not an accurate way to look for a value sire JQ




Carole Brown
Australia
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Posts 32355
Dogs 185 / Races 2

19 Jun 2020 08:08


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Many thanks, Ryan. Much appreciated.



Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
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Posts 5956
Dogs 8 / Races 0

19 Jun 2020 10:19


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With future matings of that damline Carole perhaps consider looking to incorporate that Cosmic Rumble/Blinkers On nick illustrated using Collide with the sire of choices dam, sires dam, grandsires dam etc,....iow just substitute the sire of choices dam, sires dam, grandsires dam etc into that Collide testmating and make sure at least one of them(preferably dam) covers a very high percentage(min 88%) through that 5th gen. It's just like Raz really create intensity thru different individuals except to a sire that's been successful with that damline.

I forgot to mention that 100% litterm8 intensity between BGB/Black Shiraz in the 4th/5th gens is perfect, you cld even get away with it in the 5th/6th(as you well know with Raz) with future matings. If you get those 100% intensities closer(3rd/2nd gen) they can throw less than 500m types so beware of that, and of course the important thing again is to create that intensity thru different individuals whether it be close or further back into the pedigree, again similarly as you'd know with Raz.

With that Brett Lee influence , whilst it's obvious(sex balancing with BO & that Instructed First intensity), I'd really like to know why that's the case and to do that I wld have to go through all those successes in Dalgetty's damline..sounds like a nice long job for you. Haha. g/l, its a lot of work.



Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

19 Jun 2020 11:43


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Mark Mihailovic wrote:

Jamie Quinlivian wrote:

Winners per runners. Metro tracks.

AUSSIE INFRARED 129%
WORM BURNER 100%
WALK HARD 87%
FERNANDO BALE 85%
BLACK MAGIC OPAL 82%
KC AND ALL 79%
MEPUNGA BLAZER 78%
OAKS ROAD 78%
MOREIRA 77%
ALLEN DEED 73%
COLLISION 67%
MAGIC SPRITE 55%
KINLOCH BRAE 55%
BARCIA BALE 54%
MY BRO FABIO 49%
DYNA DOUBLE ONE 48%
EL GRAND SENOR 47%
FABREGAS 44%
BELLA INFRARED 42%
BANJO BOY 26%

Winners per runners. All Vic tracks.

EL GRAND SENOR 200%
AUSSIE INFRARED 180%
FERNANDO BALE 171%
BLACK MAGIC OPAL 165%
BELLA INFRARED 162%
BARCIA BALE 153%
WALK HARD 152%
TURANZA BALE 150%
ALLEN DEED 135%
KINLOCH BRAE 134%
MOREIRA 132%
BANJO BOY 128%
COSMIC RUMBLE 122%
SPRING GUN 120%
DYNA DOUBLE ONE 116%
FABREGAS 114%
STAGGER 113%
COLLISION 108%
MY BRO FABIO 107%
MAGIC SPRITE 103%

Stats taken from Fasttrack. Only from 1/1/20 onwards.
Some very good value sires around.


Would it change a few of those sires at the top of the table percentage if they got a decent amount of there progeny to race in town?
Maybe/maybe not but prob not an accurate way to look for a value sire JQ

I think strike rates are more accurate than just looking at number of winners.
If I see a sire like Aussie Infrared or Walk Hard has a high percentage of winners, it would make me look into that dog a bit more. As I said before, there are many other things to consider first, but personally, this kind of stat adds weight.




David Plumridge
Australia
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Posts 414
Dogs 563 / Races 127

20 Jun 2020 00:24


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G'day Jamie, are the stats just for metro meetings (Thurs/Sat) or are they including Wednesday & Sunday meetings - Cheers



Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
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Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

20 Jun 2020 01:47


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Hi David the first list is just Sandown Thursday and Meadows Saturday.
The second list is all others.




Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

22 Jun 2020 04:13


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Jamie,

There is much here that I could not possibly comment on. However, the work you have done is potentially priceless and should be a standard regular publication by authorities (if they ever get around to providing national stats again).

It's available for the gallopers, of course, and I once saw similar data published in USA for their local greyhound sires (including those imported from Oz) but can't locate the site at the moment.


Michael Geraghty
Australia
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Posts 4138
Dogs 14 / Races 15

22 Jun 2020 05:26


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Bruce Teague wrote:

There is much here that I could not possibly comment on.

GOOD!!!!!



Anthony McVicker
Australia
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Posts 1438
Dogs 24 / Races 126

22 Jun 2020 09:38


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While the stats look good, I note Aussie Infared has 7 pups running and Wormburner 8 for 15 and 11 starters.

I only look at sires with min 100 starters for a guide over 12mths



Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
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Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

22 Jun 2020 11:11


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Anthony McVicker wrote:

While the stats look good, I note Aussie Infared has 7 pups running and Wormburner 8 for 15 and 11 starters.

I only look at sires with min 100 starters for a guide over 12mths

That's correct for the metro tracks.
And if 100 starters is your guide, then you only have Fernando or Barcia to choose from, with 156 and 199 starters.
Next best is Kinloch with 65.

In the all tracks stats, Aussie has 41 starters for 76 wins. EGS has 71 for 142 wins.



Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 1342
Dogs 154 / Races 139

22 Jun 2020 20:48


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Even with sire % its breeders and their broods that control the %

For instance Im very keen to breed my Bekim Bale bitch. One she had ability not fully shown on the race track, but also Bekim Bale is proving an exceptional broodsire...to the right sire that is.....

My Bro Fabio to all breeds has a 13% city winners to pups born. However to a Bekim Bale brood sire it goes up to 64% city winners to pups born.

Fernando Bale to all breeds has a 20% city winners to pups born. However, to a Bekim Bale brood it goes up to 44%

Flip side...

Barcia Bale to all breeds has a 16% city winners to pups born. However, to a Bekim Bale brood it drops by half to only 8%.

Do your homework thoroughly!


Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 19486
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

22 Jun 2020 20:51


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Jamie Quinlivian wrote:

Anthony McVicker wrote:

While the stats look good, I note Aussie Infared has 7 pups running and Wormburner 8 for 15 and 11 starters.

I only look at sires with min 100 starters for a guide over 12mths

That's correct for the metro tracks.
And if 100 starters is your guide, then you only have Fernando or Barcia to choose from, with 156 and 199 starters.
Next best is Kinloch with 65.

In the all tracks stats, Aussie has 41 starters for 76 wins. EGS has 71 for 142 wins.

And there you have it...the sire list is so heavily skewed to less than a handful of sires, the reporting systems that the industry has at its disposal cannot identify the hidden gems of stud dogs that are sitting underneath the top few , unless percentage stats are kept to see the clearer picture

Too make it even clearer, then successful matings, being it city winners should have nick ratings assessed for all the broods that have successfully produced to any given sire to assess what bloodlines are the best nicks to look for


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