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Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

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Do you have questions about breeding theories?
Or do you need tips on how to rear your pups?

welcome to the usa


Howard Moshinsky
USA
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Posts 729
Dogs 2 / Races 0

05 Jul 2020 22:52


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kelsos norma

fernando bale-kelsos wandas

EXTERNAL LINK


Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 18205
Dogs 14460 / Races 1816

06 Jul 2020 02:25


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CLICK HERE
29.79

CLICK HERE
29.73

Big runs, both first up in an official race





Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
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Posts 4674
Dogs 4 / Races 0

07 Jul 2020 05:03


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Primarily and intensely linebred in the x path to Miss Gourgeous through full blood relations Sand Man in Moral Standards pedigree & Rooster Cogburn behind She's A Natural's pedigree. Throw in an xy angle to Gable Dodge. All very easy to spot when there's so much outcrossing from an Aus perspective.

Think it was Doug Taylor many yrs ago pointed out on g/data, when they are in a zigzag pattern like that in x, that's when they are the most effective on the track.


Darren Leeson
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 58
Dogs 2 / Races 35

07 Jul 2020 14:56


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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:

Primarily and intensely linebred in the x path to Miss Gourgeous through full blood relations Sand Man in Moral Standards pedigree & Rooster Cogburn behind She's A Natural's pedigree. Throw in an xy angle to Gable Dodge. All very easy to spot when there's so much outcrossing from an Aus perspective.

Think it was Doug Taylor many yrs ago pointed out on g/data, when they are in a zigzag pattern like that in x, that's when they are the most effective on the track.

And as I mentioned elsewhere, you don’t need Fernando Bale to achieve the same thing!

CLICK HERE

Sand Man is lethal...regardless of his position in a pedigree - EXTERNAL LINK



Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
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Posts 4674
Dogs 4 / Races 0

07 Jul 2020 21:24


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Generally agree Darren, however with LLS Sand Man is in an xy position.....icing on the cake type stuff, I wld want a lot more line breeding intensity being created than just Sand Man in xy.

For example with LLS there's an extremely high 97% niche within 5 generations between Flashy Sir and Santellos EXTERNAL LINK whereby on the 5th generation only 1 dog Shandaroba is not cross duplicated so 15 of those 16 lines(97%)of dogs in Flashy Sir's pedigree are covered by dogs in Santellos pedigree. When this happens on the y sireline it seems to have quite a dramatic effect on the outcome. Sure Sand Man is involved but he is only 1 of 5 dogs involved in that niche.

There are probably other niches within that line that effect the outcome as well that don't relate to Sand Man.

With Big Flood if you look at the contribution the x path makes there through full blood relations Rooster Cogburn behind She's a Natural and with Sand Man in Moral Standards pedigree its an indication that Miss Gorgeous is making her mark both here and in the US through her full blood related sons Sand Man and Rooster Cogburn.

Then there's the extremely high 94% (15 of the 16 dogs cross duplicated in the 5th gen) niche between Banjo's sires dam Blue Girl Vane and Miagi CLICK HERE the sire who produced Group 2 staying placegetter Hogmania with the same damline as Big Flood.

Many things go into making up a pedigree as every one knows and as you say you can choose where you get what you want at a far better price, BUT the thing about Fernando's success from a breeding perspective is his dam Chloe Allen and how much work she does to cover arguably 2 of the most bred stud dogs in the last 20 yrs in:

(i)Brett Lee CLICK HERE where at least 14 of those 16 lines(88%) in the 5th generation of his pedigree are cross duplicated by dogs in Chloe's pedigree if you check the blood quota table below;

AND

(ii)Bombastic Shiraz CLICK HERE where the same situation occurs.

So any one with a broodie who's damline has had success with Brett Lee or Bombastic Shiraz in the past can reintroduce a very high percentage of those sires back into the same damline. Fernando's dam Chloe Allen carries that intensity/vigour in her pedigree. Therefore Fernando becomes an obvious choice to meet that Brett Lee/Bombastic criteria.

That's just a basic view of why I think Fernando's been so successful. Obviously I wld like to add more than just that one niche into a pedigree but gee it's a hell of a start to justify the stud fee if you thought you had the right brood. Cheers and good to see you back on data.




Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 58
Dogs 2 / Races 35

07 Jul 2020 22:05


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Hi Ryan,

Of course it will always be the entire pedigree. However, my point was to the “most effective on the track”...regardless of position one should not disregard the potency of a gene as Sand Man (my brood has 9 lines of Sand Man and as in these examples been successful to the cross with Primo Uno). As you quite rightly concentrated on in the examples above and I showed in Big Flood (notice Light Of Fire doing similar as Sand Man in Late Late Show) you do not need Fernando Bale to achieve the penthouse of greyhound breeding. IF only breeders and buyers at large would realise it!

Thanks for the well wishes, cheers!



Howard Moshinsky
USA
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Posts 729
Dogs 2 / Races 0

01 Aug 2020 16:34


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southland usa first FERNANDO BALE pup wins KELSO KITCARSON
EXTERNAL LINK

posts 7