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Sure Droopys Fool was a very fast dog, no argument there
But his mum was an absolute champion winning 14 in a row and the Qld Futurity.
Given that the only outcrossed sires in 8 generations of her pedigree were Eddy Barry, Waverly Supreme and Tivoli Dreamer I am really interested in which distant genes you relied upon for the mating.
You may have already explained it to me once before but I just can't remember the rationale, but in the context of this discussion it may be useful for others to know what you relied upon to choose Droopys Maldini for her
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 20 Sep 2020 00:11
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 20 Sep 2020 00:16
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Sandro, both Paul Wheeler and I bred to Droopys Maldini here in Australia at the same time in 2007. He produced Dyna Forte and I Droopys Fool. Theres plenty of the same genes in both broods.
Then if you see 3 years later similarity in Classy Maldini (double cross Chariot Supreme)... youll see all 3 broods carry similar genetic make ups and all 3 clicked with Droopys Maldini.
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 20 Sep 2020 00:26
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M'lady's Fool pedigree was screaming for an outcross imo !!!! A number of imports could have been used with same result, personally i would have gone the USA route !!!! City Of Sydney defies her pedigree logic, who would have thought a top class stayer would come from her litter, not me !!!! She was never bred from why ???
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 20 Sep 2020 00:27
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Absolutely agree with you there Mark. Unfortunately she was around at the very start of the import frozen semen wave. There wasnt a lot around to choose from back then.
City of Sydney just dropped dead suddenly not long after retiring. Never got to breed her!
I don't believe that Newmore King and Come On Clopook from 10 generations past would have been responsible for Droopys Fool success, she may or may not have needed an outcross but I think M'Lady's Fool and Heart Spark had a lot to do with his success
I suggest Paul Wheeler relied on Droopys Maldini for different reasons. I doubt Chariot Supreme, Come On Clopook or Newmore King and decided that he was the one
He was one of the few outcross sires available at the time
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 20 Sep 2020 00:53
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But, see thats just your opinion and you have every right to that opinion. However, equally I have given you a little insight into my reasoning for choosing Droopys Maldini. Its simply then for you to either rate it or not...all good!
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 20 Sep 2020 01:01
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Tony Gallagher wrote:
Can I ask a simple question: do people really believe that what happened 10 generations ago in a sire or bitches pedigree really has any impact on how the pups bred today are going to turn out?
Problem is Tony, you still get those substituted dogs in nicks that you're after that have been previously successful with the broods line, and are faced with the dilemna of having to rely on the nick or disregarding it and looking for another nick that was successful with the line. Usually the later. Cheers.
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1954 Dogs 56 / Races 2 20 Sep 2020 02:19
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Breeding for certain nicks is great and I think we all do it, but sometimes I think it just needs to be looked at with a simplified view towards it (not saying certain crosses don't work time after time. Just saying there might be more to it than bloodlines)
Eg. If you have a hard chasing but over the top broodie go to a sire that can throw a little bit of sook
If you have a sooky broodie go to a sire with a bit of fire
If you have a good chasing but injury prone broodie go to a outcross sire to try to toughen up the breed
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 20 Sep 2020 02:35
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Sure Droopys Fool was a very fast dog, no argument there
But his mum was an absolute champion winning 14 in a row and the Qld Futurity.
Given that the only outcrossed sires in 8 generations of her pedigree were Eddy Barry, Waverly Supreme and Tivoli Dreamer I am really interested in which distant genes you relied upon for the mating.
You may have already explained it to me once before but I just can't remember the rationale, but in the context of this discussion it may be useful for others to know what you relied upon to choose Droopys Maldini for her
Great to see the sire Eddy Barry mentioned, Sandro. I did a post years ago about just what an incredible sire he was.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 20 Sep 2020 02:58
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Matt James wrote:
Breeding for certain nicks is great and I think we all do it, but sometimes I think it just needs to be looked at with a simplified view towards it (not saying certain crosses don't work time after time. Just saying there might be more to it than bloodlines)
Eg. If you have a hard chasing but over the top broodie go to a sire that can throw a little bit of sook
If you have a sooky broodie go to a sire with a bit of fire...
Agree Matt, however you need not just "certain nicks" , but nicks that have clicked with that broodies damline previously. That's very important imo.
When you have narrowed that down to a handful of sires then chose the sire that suits the very valid points you've made. Cheers.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 20 Sep 2020 03:10
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
Matt James wrote:
Breeding for certain nicks is great and I think we all do it, but sometimes I think it just needs to be looked at with a simplified view towards it (not saying certain crosses don't work time after time. Just saying there might be more to it than bloodlines)
Eg. If you have a hard chasing but over the top broodie go to a sire that can throw a little bit of sook
If you have a sooky broodie go to a sire with a bit of fire...
Agree Matt, however you need not just "certain nicks" , but nicks that have clicked with that broodies damline previously. That's very important imo.
When you have narrowed that down to a handful of sires then chose the sire that suits the very valid points you've made. Cheers.
Hey Ryan, what breeding have you done lately? I haven't kept track.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 20 Sep 2020 03:37
CLICK HERE Note Which Chariot first only full outcross on this old colonial damline
This line produced many good race dogs, Reg Kay Helen Lamberton did well with this line. Mark I agree I would have sourced USA blood Darren well done with your successful mating but we all see it differently. I see the sire out cross Larkhill Jo / Spiral Nikita / Im Slippy giving pedigree a combo of outcross on sire line. I think thats the big success factor
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 20 Sep 2020 08:05
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Graham Moscow wrote:
Mark I agree I would have sourced USA blood Darren well done with your successful mating but we all see it differently. I see the sire out cross Larkhill Jo / Spiral Nikita / Im Slippy giving pedigree a combo of outcross on sire line. I think thats the big success factor
Hi Graham. Your spot on.
A mate of mine bred a bitch I bred to Kinloch Brae & got multiple Group performer who won the 2017 NSW Derby winner ---> CLICK HERE I bred a 1/2 sister to Milldean Panther (inbred to Spiral Nikita & his sister) & produce another multiple Group performer ---> CLICK HERE
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 20 Sep 2020 08:28
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Graham on what I mentioned you should have realised Spiral Nikita is most certainly at play and part of the reason why I chose Droopys Maldini.
Steve, I didnt have those examples back in 2007 to reference!! Out of curiosity did you reference Droopys Fool at any stage to put the Spiral Nikita cross to the same line 7 years later? Seeing it had already worked with the dam line. Even El Fooling as well?
If I remember correctly you mentioned back then you had done extensive research and believed Milldean Panther would work.
Ballymac Vic was already the template for Big Daddy Bee!
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 20 Sep 2020 08:48
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My apologies Darren I did absorb but a bit slow off the mark as usual, also letting others give there opinions Darren huge thanks for this topic and your ideas opinions, again well done on this pedigree. Steve WOW Wee I love what you bred
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 20 Sep 2020 08:59
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Steve, I didnt have those examples back in 2007 to reference!! Out of curiosity did you reference Droopys Fool at any stage to put the Spiral Nikita cross to the same line 7 years later? Seeing it had already worked with the dam line. Even El Fooling as well?
No, I wasn't looking for an outcross for that generation & my sire selections atm produced results I was more than happy with.
Darren Leeson wrote:
If I remember correctly you mentioned back then you had done extensive research and believed Milldean Panther would work.
Yes, you'll find that in a Linebreeding in x to Lemon Soda thread.
Darren Leeson wrote:
Ballymac Vic was already the template for Big Daddy Bee!
Exactly, & the breeder saw that & had a go which I had no say in.
Hi Graham. I didn't breed the Kinloch Brae litter, just the dam.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 20 Sep 2020 09:00
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All good Graham.
Were all taking about the past. Lets make it interesting and look at one for the future. Im very keen to give my bitch Ballinderry Girl a chance in the breeding barn.
Firstly, where does she sit as far as inside the square or outside the square? Shes not a city winner, but multiple city placed, with a city class run home of 12.79. So, goes into the category of the earlier list I posted.
My opinion is shes outside the square. Because, everyone has banged on in here about city winners...the perfect type etc
Now she was a bit of a bludger, but not that hard core iffy type. She did have good genuine early speed when she wanted to use it. Ref her at Warragul against Feluki Donna a 29.50 Sand winner. Ballinderry Girl picked her up in 2 strides and once she caught her just jogged to the line. So by no means a lost cause as a brood.
The mating Im going to definitely do at some stage is West On Augie. Any comments? Is it a good mating, can it work, is it inside or outside the square, what am I looking to do in this mating.
Well all be able to come back and see how close to the mark I was...
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
