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Do you have questions about breeding theories? Or do you need tips on how to rear your pups?
wanting advice please
James Rowe Australia (Verified User) Posts 3 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Dec 2020 06:34
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hi i want to get into greyhounds as i see it there are three options (1) the puppy auctions, (2) buying a pup online, (3) getting a bitch on puppy bases. there are pros and cons for each of them (1) the auction that was on not so long ago almost all of them were buybacks and were not ever for sale, (2) there are lots of pups on line but where to start (3) can you get good bitches on puppy bases and what is the normal terms, is it a pup from 1-5 and then a second pup over 5 in the litter, and would i get a better bitch offering that for each of her litters not just the first one so the bitch owner could get 6 pups over 3 litters depending on size
thanks all whats your advice for someone new to this
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 04 Dec 2020 07:52
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For your first venture I recommend a Syndicate of mates, share the fun and share the bills. There are some good people on here that can guide you in the venture.
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 04 Dec 2020 08:20
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G'day James, i guess you need to start with how much money you want to spend,let's say you got a bitch from someone on a pup deal,you need to know a few important things. Was she a good race bitch,what distances she raced over,& her breeding. Has she had any previous litters & produced winners ?. If she hasn't had any litters previously,is she out of a proven damline that produces winners consistently & are they average,City class or Group dog's. Who pays to whelp down the litter,you or the person who previously owned the bitch (if you,can you do it you're self,or will you need to pay someone to do that for you,it can cost upwards of $2000 -$3000,depending on how many pups she whelps ). Who pays for the sire's service fee,& who chooses the sire ? This depends on if you buy the bitch,or if she is given to you on pup basis.
On the other hand,if you were to buy a pup for say $3000 at 3 mths old,by the time you pay to have that pup reared until 16 months of age,it would roughly cost you another,$2500-$3000,on top of the purchase price,( = $5500- $6000 ),& that's before it is educated,generally upwards of another $ 300,& hopefully no Vet bills during this time,which the owner pays.
There are positives & negatives on both ways to do it,but I personally would buy a well bred pup from 3 mths or a bit older,& then play the waiting game,it can be far less complicated & a lot easier to cope with when getting involved in greyhound racing for the first time.
I hope this helps in some way mate,best of luck & welcome to the fantastic world of the Greyhound Industry James.
Cheers mate.
Hayden Gilders Australia (Verified User) Posts 993 Dogs 29 / Races 0 04 Dec 2020 09:00
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James breeding litters, pup deals and buying pups all come with a reasonable probability of not making it to the track. The investment often does not provide sufficient income to cover costs. They sometimes result in no income at all.
IMO you would be far better of buying a ready made race dog or a sapling that has a break in time that will provide a guide on ability. Give yourself a bit of a chance
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 04 Dec 2020 17:54
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James,if you do decide to go down this path,try to get help from someone who has been in the game for while mate,whilst you can buy a good one that has been tried,it can be hard to find a geniune one as well. Saplings can be a good option,but again James,get someone to help you out,again mate,you could buy something that simply,"isn't going to cut the mustard ". I am definitely not saying that Hayden is wrong,but if I had $5000-$6000,to spend,i would still buy a well bred pup,one very important aspects of being a greyhound owner,trainer or breeder is PATIENCE mate....there are some very well bred litters around at the moment.
Hayden Gilders wrote:
James breeding litters, pup deals and buying pups all come with a reasonable probability of not making it to the track. The investment often does not provide sufficient income to cover costs. They sometimes result in no income at all.
IMO you would be far better of buying a ready made race dog or a sapling that has a break in time that will provide a guide on ability. Give yourself a bit of a chance
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6013 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Dec 2020 22:29
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james rowe wrote:
hi i want to get into greyhounds as i see it there are three options (1) the puppy auctions, (2) buying a pup online, (3) getting a bitch on puppy bases. there are pros and cons for each of them (1) the auction that was on not so long ago almost all of them were buybacks and were not ever for sale, (2) there are lots of pups on line but where to start (3) can you get good bitches on puppy bases and what is the normal terms, is it a pup from 1-5 and then a second pup over 5 in the litter, and would i get a better bitch offering that for each of her litters not just the first one so the bitch owner could get 6 pups over 3 litters depending on size
thanks all whats your advice for someone new to this
James, You need to be far more clearer on your position. If wanting to "Breed" or "Lease". No Greyhound Authority in Australia is going to allow you a Breeders License. With NO experience, or previous involvement in the Industry. Have you read your State "Code of Practice" for Rearing, Breeding, & Keeping of Greyhounds? The Suburban Breeder is now long gone! (Council Regulations)
You need "Acreage" to Breed & Rear puppies today. And Experience. It's not an easy task.
If a "Broodie" is capable of producing Group Dogs & City performers? Will she be up for lease?
Darryl, Hayden, & Dixie have provided all good advice. Buy a few pups, with some mates (Lessen the costs) and enjoy the sport.
Cheers Tezza
James Rowe Australia (Verified User) Posts 3 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Dec 2020 22:50
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yes it is all good advice, i have a farm 300acres that has a goat dairy and breed racehorses, so space is not a issue for me. I have been watching the greyhounds for years and unlike the racehorses greyhounds are more involved for the owners thats the fun for it. I have breed lots of working dogs and security German shepherds back in the day lol. I was thinking a good broodbitch would be a foundation bitch, if better bitches are on lease how do they normally work
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 04 Dec 2020 23:31
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James...more very good advice from Terry.
It sounds like you have a geniune intrest in breeding James,but Terry has made very pertinent points. Why don't you buy one or two well bred bitches ( pups )from PROVEN producing damline,from different litters,hopefully they progress to good Tab/ City class race bitches & then use them to venture into the breeding caper,this way James,you can enjoy the journey of Greyhound Racing & then,hopefully,enjoy the full gamut of the breeding side of things & as you say,have a foundation of brood bitches to carry on their breeding lines later.
The satisfaction of doing it,& having success is enormous mate.
Who knows,maybe you have considered becoming a Owner/Trainer,again,immense satisfaction mate.
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6013 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Dec 2020 23:32
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james rowe wrote:
yes it is all good advice, i have a farm 300acres that has a goat dairy and breed racehorses, so space is not a issue for me. I have been watching the greyhounds for years and unlike the racehorses greyhounds are more involved for the owners thats the fun for it. I have breed lots of working dogs and security German shepherds back in the day lol. I was thinking a good broodbitch would be a foundation bitch, if better bitches are on lease how do they normally work
300 acrea WHERE? In if in NSW i'd be contacting the likes of Paul Wheeler, Martin Hallinan, Dennis Barnes, Steve Kavanaugh, Charlie Northfield etc, about buying that "Foundation Bitch".
How much you spend is your business. (Buy outright and NO hassles down the track). No proven formula to Breeding Champions! YET
Richard Gray Australia (Verified User) Posts 2231 Dogs 11 / Races 9 05 Dec 2020 09:04
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You have got some pretty good advice so far from most posters. Don;t be afraid to seek advice on some of the pups advertised on here, You could pick up a well bred pup at a decent price, seek advice on proper rearing and education and get a decent trainer.. Would be a great start for you to get into the game.
Jamie Quinlivian Australia (Verified User) Posts 8727 Dogs 10 / Races 0 05 Dec 2020 11:03
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James, don't worry about advice. You've been watching dogs for years so you have an idea about what works. And you've bred horses and Shepherds so you know how to take care of them. Just find a nice bitch for sale, buy a straw you like and go for it. Enjoy the ride. But yes, as Terry said, make contact with HQ and find out the rules and regs.
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 05 Dec 2020 20:57
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I don't know about you mate,but i can still remember all the great advice that i got from many trainers/breeders when i got involved some25 yrs ago,& how invaluable it was& still is...all because I asked for it. James has asked,so all credit to him,& he is getting it.Whilst he has obvious experience with breeding & rearing horse's & german shepherds,he acknowledges, that he needs advice about greyhound racing,breeding & how to go about...properly. As you know to well you're self mate,it isn't cheap to buy,race & breed greyhounds,so let's all help James out here,"going out & just buying a straw & go for it ",is great if you know what your'e doing ,but James wants advice on how to do it & do it well. Let's put the "cart back behind the horse",the poor bloke needs to learn about greyhound breeding lines & why,how & the reasoning behind choosing a race bitch for potentially breeding with her,or a broodie who has be retired to the breeding pen.
I still think James is far better to buy a couple of bitches from PROVEN producing dam lines & start from there & enjoy the journey..hopefully,i still remember this advice that was given to me by one of my many mentors," firstly,you have to learn what greyhounds aren't, BEFORE you can learn what a greyhound IS",that was given to me by Ted Curran,God bless his soul.
Cheers Jamie.
Jamie Quinlivian wrote:
James, don't worry about advice. You've been watching dogs for years so you have an idea about what works. And you've bred horses and Shepherds so you know how to take care of them. Just find a nice bitch for sale, buy a straw you like and go for it. Enjoy the ride. But yes, as Terry said, make contact with HQ and find out the rules and regs.
Jamie Quinlivian Australia (Verified User) Posts 8727 Dogs 10 / Races 0 05 Dec 2020 21:34
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Just my own personal experience Daryl. I think there is a lot to say for backing your own judgement. Advice is like doctors or mechanics. Some real good, some will set you back. Obviously different if you are starting from scratch, but from what I can gather, James seems to understand some of the basics and he has the land (and I'm guessing the $$$) to go for it.
Some of the advice I first got was draconic. That's why I chose to ignore it all and back myself.
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2020 02:12
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All good Jamie,& yep it does sound like James has the breeding & rearing side of things covered with horse & german shepherds,& that is great head start for him,he also has the ideal property to start up his new venture,but I am certain that most people on Data can help him along with good,honest & sound advice,also,steer James into the right direction with recommending other owners,breeders,trainers,vets etc, if he asked. Collectively, there are a lot of very experienced people on here who can share their knoweledge with him,& I'm sure James will work out very quickly how to become not only a successful owner,but breeder & maybe a trainer if that's what he wants to do. You have bred some nice litters over the years Jamie,so maybe if James chooses to become a breeder in the near future,I'm sure he would take any advice on board if you shared with him. Cheers mate.
Jamie Quinlivian wrote:
Just my own personal experience Daryl. I think there is a lot to say for backing your own judgement. Advice is like doctors or mechanics. Some real good, some will set you back. Obviously different if you are starting from scratch, but from what I can gather, James seems to understand some of the basics and he has the land (and I'm guessing the $$$) to go for it.
Some of the advice I first got was draconic. That's why I chose to ignore it all and back myself.
Carole Brown Australia (Verified User) Posts 32355 Dogs 185 / Races 2 06 Dec 2020 02:49
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James, I know Mick Puleio quite well and he has bred some champion dogs. If you like I can ask him if he has any bitches/broodbitches he might be willing to sell to you from his line. Hooked on Scotch, Poke the Bear, Out of Range might have some sisters for sale, and Mick has a new litter just started racing that are more stars of the future, by the looks of things. Look up Nicki Fields' progeny and you will see how successful they have been. Tatty Fields is the dam of his new litter.
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2020 03:05
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There you James,ask & you shall recieve mate.
Thanks Carol.
Carole Brown wrote:
James, I know Mick Puleio quite well and he has bred some champion dogs. If you like I can ask him if he has any bitches/broodbitches he might be willing to sell to you from his line. Hooked on Scotch, Poke the Bear, Out of Range might have some sisters for sale, and Mick has a new litter just started racing that are more stars of the future, by the looks of things. Look up Nicki Fields' progeny and you will see how successful they have been. Tatty Fields is the dam of his new litter.
Valerie Glover Australia (Verified User) Posts 239 Dogs 2 / Races 0 06 Dec 2020 22:16
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Hi James, Many good people here with good advice also,;all Ican add is that with the experience you have already with animals, with the property and space to add to this, you are on track already, starting your own breed will fall into place, using your knowledge and taking all you can from the good breeders/trainers etc.. If you can attend race meets to watch and learn along the way as well, helps picking up tips of what you can take onboard . Others have said here, try starting with a bitch of good race background, or from the damline that has kept strong over time . You know from the horses that there is no formula of certainty, Be patient ,put your best into it ,and you will have success, at what level ?? but most of all enjoy it: The sport needs more like you , All The Best ,Bob Glover
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 07 Dec 2020 01:24
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james rowe wrote:
..... i have a farm 300acres............and breed racehorses.....
Hi James, imo you can apply racehorse breeding theories to greyhound breeding however that is unlikely to cut it in greyhound racing if you want to breed that topliner.
The reason is that greyhounds can have up to 16 pups in a litter and if that litter is successful a number of them are/were likely to be bred with and end up on both sides of future greyhound pedigrees which in turn creates far more intensity than most racehorse pedigrees as mares only have 1 foal.
You are far more likely to learn how to breed better racehorses from breeding greyhounds than the other way around. g/l with your venture. Cheers.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
