I'm certainly no expert. I'd be investing another $120 with Braschy. Using him might be putting all your eggs in one Fernando Bale basket as Sandro indicated. When FBs are good they are very good, when they are bad they are horrible. Bernado would be high on the list I'd imagine, but then you have 2 litters with KC and All line sires coming through. Aussie Infrared could be plan B. Like I said money spent on Braschy's opinion is money well spent.

When niches click, my estimation is they work somewhere between 35%-45% of the time. So if your first litter is successful it's likely the next two litters may not click. jmo.

I'm surprised no one has suggested Royal Assassin. This bitch is way too well performed for some to be considered a potential brood ;-)

Peter Giles Comment: "The best litter Ihave ever bred was from a repeat mating of Gun Law Osti and Floodgate. Ihave bred repeat matings a lot of times and the second litter is always as good as the first,if not better."

Helen Ivers Comment: "I've always found them to work really well for me. Genetics is genetics and I don't understand why any breeder would shy away from repeat matings."

Des Dooley Comment: "I bred one repeat mating many years ago. I'd be a lot more confident about breeding a repeat mating again if the dam was six years old or younger and if she hadn't had more than three or four litters."

Paul Wheeler and Paul Bartolo- esteemed breeders and not so keen BUT they both have done them with success.

Makes me that much more comfortable re breeding to Fernando. It seems they CAN most certainly work but, as ANYTHING to do with breeding ANY animals - genetics is not an exact science and all you can do is try to narrow the odds by studying nicks and crosses, studying and knowing your female and try to find a male whos breeding has nicked and who compliments your female's good points, hopefully won't intensify her weaker points and then............keep your fingers crossed!

She's obviously very worthy of litters. I'd just personally be going to something with super hard chase for peace of mind

1 Aussie Infrared
2 Hard Style Rico
3 Feral Franky

Bella Infrared was one of the hardest and toughest dogs to grace a greyhound track in many a year , he also would have won over the 700 mt had he gone over that trip , this is a huge plus when using one of his sons.
you know all there is to know about Feral Franky.

Best of luck Donna ,

Say how you feel Paul! LOL! I have to agree with you -
Im sure Ryan has his reasons but I did think it was a pretty big call to be able to work out percentages and the LIKELIHOOD of the next litter NOT working? I did a bit if research myself last night - there are a LOT of nicks and repeat meetings that do consistently throw very good pups. At the end of the day, though, unless you know the circumstances of every pup in every litter its a hard call anyway -- which ones were reared well, which ones werent broken in properly, which ones went to bad trainers, which ones went to elite trainers, which ones were injured, which ones were "helped"........

Whats your point?

I think we already know its expensive to keep greyhounds these days

Generally each pup will cost $8 -$15k to get to it past the pre-training stage and to the track depending on the cost of the pup to the purchaser

So what are you saying? For the 2nd mating does Donna go for the back to back repeat and the big puppy bucks and go to Fernando or go to a more modest sire but one who may suit her pedigree.

With all due respect ( and you I know I respect your opinion greatly Sandro) ) Does it have to be big bucks OR one that might suit her pedigree?
Is there a reason it cant be both?
I would have thought with how well Fernando crossed with her dam( not just Tommy, the whole litter won and there were a number of above average race dogs in that litter) Would you not say that it was a proven cross so clearly that sire suits that damline and we know he is good over Barcia bitches. I am not ONLY interested in big money pups. I am striving to breed elite race dogs, so I am not sure why that dog does not suit her pedigree.
I did get David to do a breeding analysis and his words were the obvious choice is Fernando AND He has also given me some other very interesting sires - David is BRILLIANT at what he does and I take his suggestions very seriously!I have a Fernando straw for her but I just need some time to look thru the other suggestions more thoroughly :-)

There is a Pizer video from the 90s where Mark Ducos interviewed PAW. Ducos asked if PAW if repeat matings work. PAW reply was yes but he preferred to go to a different sire in between the repeat mating

I agree in the main with David.

Fernando all the way is the obvious choice and should throw some nice pups ,but I think there are better options, but seeing you have PAID for Davids advice and he has given you those other options, my only advice is that you SHOULD use it wisely.

Knowing how fast Tommy Shelby was, logic states the window of opportunity is far less to produce a better one than Tommy Shelby by altering Tommy's pedigree by 20%. If Tommy Shelby was a country dog or bordering on city Grade 5 then your percentages may be a lot better with the 20% pedigree alteration.

I believe this point is where breeders may let themselves down more often than not.

It's not impossible to produce better than Tommy Shelby, but even by adding Barcia to the ped, the odds are very much against your bitch producing beta than Tommy putting Fernando over her, because of how good Tommy was.

Its not about trying to reproduce Tommy Shelby Ryan, but elite class - https:/ CLICK HERE

Its about trying to get the mix of bloodlines correct - https:/ CLICK HERE

Wyndra All Class is a little different as it's closer to 10% different not 20% different, as is with the Fernando cross.

I wld think everyone breeding wld want to try to produce a Tommy Shelby or better ?

As I said not impossible but.......

P.S. I've never been a fan of copying a top dogs ped as you put yourself behind the 8 ball trying to create better than himself. It makes more sense to copy a decent grade 5 performer and say add a Barcia or Fernando or a full brother/ sister to them into a ped to produce a group performer. Fedex for example was bred that way.

Even in my own Wow x Instafamous mating. I didnt try to copy Wyndra All Class. As I do with all my matings - I put the pedigree together and then go try find it working in other elite dogs. To suggest to me Im on the right track.

One thing about breeding, the more things change, the more they stay the same!