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Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 02 Mar 2023 23:09
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The true outcross will be impossible soon, if not already. The US option is all but finished, the UK/Irish option is saturated with Aussie blood. What happens now? Paul Wheeler tried using Coursing sires, with poor results. What do we do if we need fresh blood now?
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 03 Mar 2023 02:09
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In the true sense of the word, but any good degree of difference in a pedigree, still will afford a pedigree to breathe somewhat.
It will still come from sires from Ire / UK, but as has happened here in Oz. Obscure lines also do the trick as well. I brought up the likes of Amerigo Man, New Tears and Ginger in another topic - all bred 2 x 3 Temlee, with a couple of them carrying obscure lines in them.
If you look at New Tears in particular, his obscure lines negated the close inbreeding to Temlee and allowed it to flourish.
Acacia Ablaze was considered the Australian outcross you have when youre not having an outcross. Mainly in part to the double cross of the not so prolific Thunder Lane and then London Lad - as opposed to star brother Takiri - both 50/50 as well!
Malawis Prince likewise not inbred. So, pedigrees breathe.
Interesting times ahead for sure!
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 03 Mar 2023 02:28
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I think it was Jeff Holland who came up with that the concept of an outcross was not whether it was an imported or overseas sire, it was whether there were no common lines in either 5th or 6th generation
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 308 Dogs 0 / Races 0 05 Mar 2023 21:12
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I reckon most of us immediately think of an import when talking about an outcross, yet its not necessarily the case.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 06 Mar 2023 01:18
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Im interested in opinions What would you classify this pedigree ? Out cross? Partial out cross or line breeding First four generations in black. Note JTB and Brett Lee half brothers
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 06 Mar 2023 02:03
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An Australian bred bitch thats had a couple of outcrosses along time ago
Im sure we will hear the complicated bullshit dribble but
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Mar 2023 03:04
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Graham Moscow wrote:
Im interested in opinions What would you classify this pedigree ? Out cross? Partial out cross or line breeding First four generations in black. Note JTB and Brett Lee half brothers
To highlight just one example it's 8.2% Temlee on Dams side and 8.4% Temlee on the Sires side. If that's an outcross I'll give it up.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 06 Mar 2023 03:41
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Nathan / Paul So its a Line bred pedigree classification in your opinions Cheers
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 06 Mar 2023 03:54
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Its good well thought out breeding Graham. It lets the pedigree breathe naturally. Especially with the embedded Kiowa Sweet Trey there. So you have a breeder along the line recognise the value of adding outcross!
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Mar 2023 04:11
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Graham Moscow wrote:
Nathan / Paul So its a Line bred pedigree classification in your opinions Cheers
Just because you can't see the crosses on the first page doesn't make it an outcross. Look back one or two generations and the pedigree is bristling with crosses.
I'm waiting for the comment that the pedigree has been given an asthmatic puffer, by using a sire not closely related to the brood.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 06 Mar 2023 04:12
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Good post Darren I like the breather comment Many breeders think outcross when its not required. They should be searching for line bred pedigree templates that carry all black in first four generations with a outcross five generations back directly over damline. Irish Malt pedigree template is an option for breeders too follow
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 06 Mar 2023 04:23
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Agree Graham, well said! Usually some pedigrees scream an injection of outcross. Where others dont.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Mar 2023 04:27
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Paul Dicks wrote:
I'm waiting for the comment that the pedigree has been given an asthmatic puffer, by using a sire not closely related to the brood.
and like clock work, there it is. Classic
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 06 Mar 2023 04:35
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You expert you PMSL
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Mar 2023 05:14
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It's like espousing this BS "breeding outside the square theory". Then you go to the best and priciest sire in and Oz Fernando Bale and next you use the best and priciest sire in the UK/Ireland in Droopys Sydney. Not to mention latest sensation Hooked On Scotch and the second highest priced sire in Black Magic Opal. Perfect best to best breeding and totally inside the square.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 06 Mar 2023 05:18
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Graham Moscow wrote:
Nathan / Paul So its a Line bred pedigree classification in your opinions Cheers
Just because you can't see the crosses on the first page doesn't make it an outcross. Look back one or two generations and the pedigree is bristling with crosses.
I'm waiting for the comment that the pedigree has been given an asthmatic puffer, by using a sire not closely related to the brood.
Just because you cant see the crosses. Dixie is the best you can do ? You really play the Patzer
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 06 Mar 2023 05:28
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Paul Dicks wrote:
It's like espousing this BS "breeding outside the square theory". Then you go to the best and priciest sire in and Oz Fernando Bale and next you use the best and priciest sire in the UK/Ireland in Droopys Sydney. Not to mention latest sensation Hooked On Scotch and the second highest priced sire in Black Magic Opal. Perfect best to best breeding and totally inside the square.
I know, but Hooked On Scotch didnt have a runner on the track when I used him and dont forget My Bro Fabio and Fabregas - ripping stats there. Im also going to use No Easy Beat. Hopefully we can get a result somewhere in all that. Either way Im sure youll be there wasting your life on me HAHA
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Mar 2023 05:35
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Graham Moscow wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Graham Moscow wrote:
Nathan / Paul So its a Line bred pedigree classification in your opinions Cheers
Just because you can't see the crosses on the first page doesn't make it an outcross. Look back one or two generations and the pedigree is bristling with crosses.
I'm waiting for the comment that the pedigree has been given an asthmatic puffer, by using a sire not closely related to the brood.
Just because you cant see the crosses. Dixie is the best you can do ? You really play the Patzer
I'm struggling to see what's wrong with my comment. It's 100% true, along with my prediction I might add.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 06 Mar 2023 05:44
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Graham Moscow wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Graham Moscow wrote:
Nathan / Paul So its a Line bred pedigree classification in your opinions Cheers
Incorrect Dixie What makes you think I did not see the proven crosses ? Because you wanted to invite trash talk.
Just because you can't see the crosses on the first page doesn't make it an outcross. Look back one or two generations and the pedigree is bristling with crosses.
I'm waiting for the comment that the pedigree has been given an asthmatic puffer, by using a sire not closely related to the brood.
Just because you cant see the crosses. Dixie is the best you can do ? You really play the Patzer
I'm struggling to see what's wrong with my comment. It's 100% true, along with my prediction I might add.
Not true and you know it.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Mar 2023 05:55
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Graham Moscow wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Graham Moscow wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Graham Moscow wrote:
Nathan / Paul So its a Line bred pedigree classification in your opinions Cheers
Incorrect Dixie What makes you think I did not see the proven crosses ? Because you wanted to invite trash talk.
Just because you can't see the crosses on the first page doesn't make it an outcross. Look back one or two generations and the pedigree is bristling with crosses.
I'm waiting for the comment that the pedigree has been given an asthmatic puffer, by using a sire not closely related to the brood.
Just because you cant see the crosses. Dixie is the best you can do ? You really play the Patzer
I'm struggling to see what's wrong with my comment. It's 100% true, along with my prediction I might add.
Not true and you know it.
What are you talking about? There are heaps of crosses on the 6th and 7th lines of her pedigree.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
