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Michael Eberand Australia (Verified User) Posts 845 Dogs 3 / Races 0 29 Oct 2023 20:08
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Of the 23 acceptances to the 2023 Topgun invitations ..
- 13 come from the Gable Dodge sireline via Fernando Bale (8) and KC And All (5) .
- with a smaller but potent pool 5 come from the Bella Infrared sireline via Aussie Infrared (4) & Hard Style Rico (1)..
that's 18/23 ..
of the remaining 5 dogs, two of them are out of bitches from the Gable Dodge sireline.
Well done to people like Geoff Collins and the late Paul Wheeler whose Vision amplified the success and diversity of our breeding pool today. They visited the USA together for a month in 1998 in a trip that set the foundations for what we have today .
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15483 Dogs 0 / Races 1 29 Oct 2023 23:23
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Good post Michael.
Zac Cornell Australia (Verified User) Posts 30 Dogs 0 / Races 0 30 Oct 2023 03:06
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Looking forward to the 100000 superior panama bitches racing that i brought haha
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 30 Oct 2023 21:54
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Awesome post ! Well done to all involved and what an achievement ! Thats what happens with Poeple who know what they are doing and have decades of hands on experience that do the miles in their own shoes !
To think theres breeders on here that outline the US as the weakest or most questionable for chase out the Aus - US - UK /IE is evidently as usual so laughable !
More to come I say
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 30 Oct 2023 22:28
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Anyone that knows anything about breeding, knows the success of the US outcross, is attributed well and truly to the Irish / UK influence in the pedigree. Then furthermore the Australian influence is also contained in the likes of Gable Dodge and KC and All.
The U.S. know this and have always embraced it, by continually importing outcross Ire / UK blood to their shores and using it. For which Australian breeders can thank them for!
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 31 Oct 2023 02:13
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https:/ CLICK HERE 12% Irish input within 5 generations ?? Hardly continual ?? , from a US sire thats recently done what only must be a memory of what UK/ IE used to deliver !
Disagree and so do the stats that arent 20 years old
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 31 Oct 2023 03:52
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 31 Oct 2023 03:56
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As I said Nathan, those that really understand breeding, know the significance and importance. Spoon fed percentages supplied by GD, are of the utmost irrelevance. The last thing breeding a good dog has to do with is percentages or within so many generations.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 31 Oct 2023 05:19
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Darren Leeson wrote:
As I said Nathan, those that really understand breeding, know the significance and importance. Spoon fed percentages supplied by GD, are of the utmost irrelevance. The last thing breeding a good dog has to do with is percentages or within so many generations.
Breeding a good dog has the least thing to do with percentages??? And or strength of potency in first 5 gens ???
Heard it all now
Thanks Darren ! Id say for your input , but after that last comment .. I have no words at all
[Edited Admin]
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 31 Oct 2023 05:33
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We have the best and second best outcross sires on the Planet bred right here in Oz !
1st The GOAT
2nd BERNARDO
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 31 Oct 2023 06:45
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 31 Oct 2023 07:33
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How can you have a convo with cats who report a diff of opinion
Who cares Darren , atleast youve entered the 21st century ! But missed the point once again displaying yet another random success that anyone could find supporting even the most dumbest theory one could imagine !
When all that was needed was a well done ??
Shows the idiocy and ignorance of a few Poeple
Ps. Dont worry , youll get your turn for superlatives - or not , on your new elite Irish sire mate .
This thread is for US success in the 21st century by a few pioneers that have succeeded over and over again !
No one time flukes
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 31 Oct 2023 09:02
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Ill make it a little easier for you Nathan see the tail dam lines in your love-fest of all (not) American
Love fest ??? Its called an appreciation that someone else has raised ( not me ) that has clear merit and warranted congratulatorys to not only the dogs themselves that have forged top grade success but also the Poeple that made it happen !
Unlike you , I didnt pick or sift through litters to single out something out that supports my own future hopes ? That we all have to listen too every week for 2 years ??
Thats a love fest !
What do you think your making easier as if Im missing something , youve selected 2 dogs , Flying Stanley with a Irish damline that was a failure at stud ? Again no current value in his straws at all !
And another Se tali Sundance , another damline from same origins that will if not already will fizzle out after 10 or so attempted litters here ?
Pretty sure youve heard me say 100 times that IE / Irish belong in maternal lines 3 -5 gens back ! All youve shown is what Ive already outlined and it has no content at all to this thread or what the top class successful US sires x with aust lines have produced .
Aust / US lines produce runners , sires , and sons of sires that continue on and on every decade year after year .
Irish is an after thought if linked / line bred in a mating coincidently all the better ! If you think this is wrong and the Irish match Aust or US sires , Im still waiting for you to name 1 Irish sire thats created or forged anything like the 5 US sires I could rattle off in the last decade .
Heres the floor name 1 proven GRP / sire throwing Irish stud in the last 15 years please that everyone is flocking to and cant pay enough to use its diminishing numbers in straws ?
Ill make it easy for you too , they dont exist ! Theyve been bred out or used like I said in a calculated minimal line bred technique thru dams 3-5 gens back !
Never thru sires forging sons to the likes of Aust / US have recently done .
Hence this thread and its title !
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 31 Oct 2023 14:48
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Yet again, your inexperience shows its beyond you to understand. You just dont get why these US sires work here.
David Firmager United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 7 Dogs 0 / Races 0 31 Oct 2023 15:29
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Guys, you all seem so hung up on where the most progressive lines originate from?...I thought the objective was to breed quality greyhounds regardlesS?
Would I be incorrect in mentioning Temlee and Waverley Supreme as a not too insignificant Irish influence on Australian Lines or would modern day breeders consider their multiple position in recent pedigrees as having no merit even though their duplication in many pedigrees is so obvious?
Im very interested in everyones comments.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 31 Oct 2023 18:47
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Yet again, your inexperience shows its beyond you to understand. You just dont get why these US sires work here.
My inexperience is beyond me ! Lol oh dear Darren you are a lost soul
I chose to ignore the platform of all greyhounds due to the fact it could have been any country that had this ! Since then and into the 21st century mate the ORIGIN of greyhounds has been super-seeded and left in the wind !
There is nothing beyond me at all ! I just choose and have a preference to not live in the dark ages and say a tail end damline from 1950 is the reasoning to a success in 2020 !
Is it behind you to comprehend the obvious and think why was it that wheeler and Collins didnt make a trek to the homeland of greyhounds but yet went to the US and have changed greys to a better level then whats ever been done before ?
Youre ignorance clearly shows any new learning is beyond you too ! The dog I put up as an example clearly shows any knowledgeable breeder the Irish blood has almost been bred out of him ? And down to blood quotes of nearing zero apposed to getting more ???
Doesnt get much more simpler then that !
Do you even know what Wheeler has even tried in the last 15 years with Irish / UK reinforcement ? From coursing dogs to dozens of IE studs that all eventuated in nothing ! People like you will sit there and go oh wait for it , its not over theyll pop up in 3 generations time from a brood and its now a success ! Lol No mate , he did it for next gen runners and diff of blood to potentially produce a well balanced champion stud or brood with a point of difference!
Guess what , his results for the record books have all come with the introduction of using heavily induced US SIRE genes and like Fernando some have had the maternal lines of the IE / Uk . Next thing youll tell me is Black Top was such a success due to breeding in 1890 where a UK dam was EMBEDDED ??? Snap out of it
I wouldnt try or care for linking Temlee and co as Ive said to the ignorant ones , its back in 1980 lol and the dilution of any purpose behind it is so high and would be worth next to nothing while trying to create intensity !
What I do follow and find interesting is what x s they did 2 x 2 2 x 3 etc and the POSITIONING of dogs and dams that created so many out and out champions that were so tough !
Ps . Still waiting on that elusive 1 stud dog from Ireland that produces GRP runners and sons to follow on ??
Michael Eberand Australia (Verified User) Posts 845 Dogs 3 / Races 0 31 Oct 2023 20:42
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Hey guys I just thought I would remark on the success of the direct USA sire influence , as never better highlighted then the Top Gun acceptances and then acknowledge the work Geoff and Paul did in the late 1980s which has been instrumental in the achievements and knock on effects as far and wide as Bernardo and my boy Aussie today. It wasnt intended to denigrate on other massive contributions such as those of the Irish and Uk lines which are of course different pioneering and visionary stories to that of Paul and Geoff , the latter which is worthy of further documentation.. who did they meet.. where did they go what inspired them to go to the USA and leave their operations for a full month . Ive heard part the stories from Geoff and its certainly very interesting . Heres to a bright genetic future.. hopefully more breeding inspirational success stories across countries into the future . Cheers
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 31 Oct 2023 21:51
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Im not downplaying that Michael, just highlighted why they work here! Cheers
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 01 Nov 2023 02:56
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David Firmager wrote:
Guys, you all seem so hung up on where the most progressive lines originate from?...I thought the objective was to breed quality greyhounds regardlesS?
Would I be incorrect in mentioning Temlee and Waverley Supreme as a not too insignificant Irish influence on Australian Lines or would modern day breeders consider their multiple position in recent pedigrees as having no merit even though their duplication in many pedigrees is so obvious?
Im very interested in everyones comments.
Good to see you participate David! The more things change the more they stay the same. Ive said that plenty of times on here. So, you get no argument from me. Agree with you, theyre as relevant today as they ever were!
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
