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Colours

Jenny Rufus
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 1124
Dogs 17 / Races 40

31 Dec 2005 18:20


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What colours are possible from a mating between a white/blue bitch and a brindle dog? The dams parents were black (solid) and brindle (with some white), and the sire parents were brindle and black. Granddams parents were white and brindle (solid colour)


Holger von Boehn
Germany
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Posts 1851
Dogs 586358 / Races 1337329

31 Dec 2005 18:44


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Please have a look at our LIBRARY there is THE article about
COLOUR INHERITANCE from Gavin Fitzpatrick.
CLICK HERE




Simon Milgate
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2043
Dogs 23 / Races 0

01 Oct 2022 11:16


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I have tried to access this link to the library article and also tried getting into it not through the link and no luck, not sure if it still exists.

I wasnt sure what the possible colours of a greyhound were and found this chart.

EXTERNAL LINK
My reason for searching is I have a young litter at home (2nd week) which has two blue dogs in it a one is a genuine blue through and through the other almost has a tinge or under coat so to speak of fawn and I wasn't sure if there was an actual colour blue/fawn as there are blue brindle ?

I also noticed on this chart they have red fawn and not dun are these the same with different wording?




Paul Dicks
Australia
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Posts 10281
Dogs 120 / Races 252

01 Oct 2022 12:24


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COLOUR INHERITANCE IN THE GREYHOUND
(By Gavin FITZPATRICK.)
I am not a geneticist and therefore will not use what would otherwise appear very
confusing genetic symbols used by geneticists. The information I present is derived
from a great amount of research over a number of years as Keeper of the Australian &
New Zealand Greyhound Stud Book. This material is couched in layman's terms in
order that it may be more readily understood.

Colour Inheritance in the Greyhound is the proven genetic ability of greyhounds of
a particular colour or colours, to produce a particular colour or colours in their own
offspring.

Basic Colours of Greyhounds.
These can be listed as: Black,
Dun,(chocolate or liver),
Blue,
Brindle,
Fawn.

Black can come in the form of a dominant black or a recessive
black. A dominant Black is one which, when bred with, will produce no blues, no
brindles, no fawns, no particolours.

Dun is an extremely rare colour, appearing in approximately
one in every 1500 to 2000 litters. It can range from a light blue fawn, through a rich
red fawn, up to a deep rich chocolate colour, with the dominating factor being a pink
to brown coloured nose leather. Many Dun coloured greyhounds in the past have
been listed and recorded as being Dark Fawn, Red Fawn or Red. They should never
be listed as a type of Fawn or Red as they are a colour apart. In addition, when fawn
is crossed with another fawn or brindle, black or blue coloured pups cannot issue from
such mating. However, when Dun is crossed with fawn or brindle, it is almost certain
that black coloured pups will issue from the mating. Research indicates that all
present day Dun coloured greyhounds will have a double cross of Rocket Jet.

Blue is a dilute of the colour black and can range from a pale
misty blue to a deep blue(grey) almost black colour. Most blues will also have a
bluish rather than black coloured nose leather.

Brindle can come in shades of Black Brindle, Blue Brindle,
Red Brindle, Dun Brindle, Fawn Brindle, Dark Brindle, Light Brindle. Some Black
Brindles can certainly appear to be black greyhounds unless inspected closely.

Fawn can be in the form of Dark Fawn, Light Fawn, Red
Fawn, Blue Fawn, or Dun Fawn.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brindles devoid of striping. Mr. Roy ROBINSON, a renowned canine geneticist in
England has advised that there will be some brindles , including blue brindles, so
devoid of striping as to appear either Fawn or Blue, but these animals will breed as
Brindles. If a greyhound has only one brindle stripe, it should be recorded as a
brindle, not as that of its basic colour. In approximately one in 500 litters where both
Brindle AND Fawn pups should not appear, breeders actually report there are
Brindles and one Fawn or White & Fawn pup. Often upon further inspection the pup
reported as Fawn or White & Fawn is actually Brindle or White & Brindle. On the
very rare occasion, the Fawn colour is confirmed, placing this greyhound in the very
small minority of genetically brindle pups, so devoid of striping as to appear Fawn,
and expected to eventually breed as a brindle.

Blue Variant.
Greyhounds normally identified as Blue, Blue Brindle or Blue
Fawn can, for the purposes of colour inheritance, be grouped into a category called
Blue Variant, the significance of this being when looking at the mating expectations
below.

Particolour.
In addition to the above basic colours, there are greyhounds
which are referred to as being White or White and ? In order to put these greyhounds
into a single category, they are referred to as Particolour. White however, is not a
colour, it merely represents the absence of colour.
A pure white greyhound is a rarity. In almost every instance
of a greyhound being called white, such greyhound can be found to have the
additional colour of either, Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle, or Fawn. If such additional
colour(no matter how minute), can be seen on an otherwise white greyhound, its
colour should be referred to as White and such other colour. This is vital for stud
book and breeding accuracy.

Basic Colour mating to Basic Colour.

(1) Black to Black may produce pups of the following colours:
Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle, Fawn or any of those colours
with white.(but should not produce both brindle and fawn in
a litter.) Any of those colours with white.

(2) Dun to Dun.(No such mating in greyhounds has been
recorded. May produce only Dun coloured pups, or Dun
with White.
No Blacks. No Blues, No Brindles, No Fawns.

(3) Blue to Blue. May produce Blue, Brindle or Fawn or those
colours with white, (but not both Brindle and Fawn in the
litter.)
No Blacks, No Dun, It is also believed that any fawns from
such a mating would in fact be Blue Fawn, and that any
brindles are likely to be Blue Brindle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(4) Brindle to Brindle. May produce Brindles and Fawns, or
those colours with white.
No Black, No Dun, No Blue.

(5) Fawn to Fawn. May produce Fawn or Fawn with white
only pups.
No Black, No Dun, No Blue, No Brindle.

(6) Particolour to Particolour(White and ?). May produce
White or a basic colour with a great deal of white.
No solid or self coloured pups.

(7) Blue Variant to Blue Variant(Blue, Blue Brindle or Blue
Fawn) May produce pups of blue variant colour or those
colours with white.
Blue to Blue Fawn will not produce both Brindle and Fawn
in the same litter.
No Black, No Dun.

(8) Black to Dun. May produce, Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle,
Fawn or Particolour (but not both Brindle
AND Fawn in the litter).
Should a Brindle pup issue from this
mating, it is immediate recognition that one
or both of the parents is unable to produce
Fawn coloured pups.

(9) Black to Blue. May produce, Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle,
Fawn, or Particolour (but not both Brindle
AND Fawn in the litter).
If a Brindle coloured pup issues from this
mating, it is immediate recognition that
one or both parents is unable to produce
Fawn coloured pups.

(10) Black to Brindle. May produce Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle,
Fawn, or Particolour.

(11) Black to Fawn. May produce, Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle,
Fawn, or Particolour (but not both Brindle
AND Fawn in the litter).
If any Brindle coloured pup issues from
this mating, it is immediate recognition
the Black coloured parent is unable to
produce Fawn coloured pups.

(12) Dun to Blue. May produce, Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fawn, or Particolour (but not both Brindle
AND Fawn in the litter).
If any Brindle coloured pups issue from
this mating, then it is immediate
recognition that one or both parents is
unable to produce Fawn coloured pups.

(13) Dun to Brindle. May Produce, Black, Dun, Blue,
Brindle,Fawn, or Particolour.

(14) Dun to Fawn. May Produce, Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle,
Fawn, or Particolour (but not both Brindle
AND Fawn in the litter).
If any Brindle coloured pups issue from
this mating, then it is immediate
recognition that the Dun coloured parent
is unable to produce Fawn coloured pups.

(15) Blue to Brindle. May produce, Black, Dun, Blue Brindle,
Fawn or Particolour.

(16) Blue to Fawn. May produce, Black, Dun, Blue, Brindle
Fawn, or Particolour (but not both Brindle
AND Fawn in the litter).
If any Brindle coloured pups issue from
this mating, then it is immediate
recognition that the Blue coloured parent
is unable to produce Fawn coloured pups.

(17) Brindle to Fawn. May Produce, Brindle, Fawn or
Particolour. No Black, No Dun, No
Blue.

Note: The above expectations of colour are those which can generally be expected in
a litter. However, it must be remembered that approximately 62% of
greyhounds(sires or dams) will genetically be unable to produce a certain colour or
colours. With a sire, it can be readily determined once he has sired in the order of 100
pups. With a dam which may only have one litter per year, it is not so simple to
determine. If either the sire or dam is genetically unable to produce one or more of
the colours, Dun, Blue, Brindle, Fawn or Particolour, then such colour should not
issue from the mating. In other words, in order for any of the colours, Dun, Blue,
Brindle, Fawn or White, to issue from a mating, BOTH the sire and the dam must
possess the gene for the colour.

Note: In the mating combinations (3), (8), (9), (11), (12), (14) & (16) listed above,
should BOTH the sire and dam be genetically able to produce FAWN coloured pups,
then NO BRINDLES will issue from such a mating.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: For BOTH Brindle & Fawn to appear in a litter, one or both parents must be
Brindle.

Inability of some greyhounds(Sires & Dams) to produce certain colours.
Research has shown that approximately 62% of greyhounds are unable to produce at
least one particular colour such as, Dun, Blue, Brindle, Fawn or White(although white
itself is not actually a colour).
Between 30% & 35% of Black coloured greyhounds are unable to produce pups of
particolour(White and ?).
As an example, in recent editions of the Australian & New
Zealand Greyhound Stud Books, we can find:

AWESOME ASSASSIN(Bk).....2,151 pups......No Blues, One White.
BARNEYS ALARM(BeBd) ...... 745 pups......No Fawns.
ACACIA ABLAZE(F).............2,430 pups......No Blues.
ASHIGGA(Bk)...................... 666 pups......No Fawns.
BLACK SHIRAZ(Bk)..............2,020 pups......No Fawns , One Blue which was
later named and registered as Black.
BOBNIAK(BeBd)..................1,460 pups......No Whites.
CRY HAVOC(Wbk)........ .......1,371 pups......No Brindles,.Three White & Fawn
which were later named and registered as Black, White & Black and White & Blue.
FORTIFIED SPEED(Rbd)...........919 pups......No Blues, No Whites,.....One Fawn.
WORLD TITLE(Bk)...............1,359pups...... No Whites,.Three Blues.
ZAZZIAM(Bk)................ 1,378 pups......No Blues, No Brindles, No Fawns.

Conclusion.

Colour inheritance in the greyhound is now recognised by greyhound
authorities in England, Ireland, USA, New Zealand & Australia, and is a very useful
tool in ensuring a more accurate stud book with up to date computer programming
which alerts administrators to what appears to be an aberrant litter, and also as a
deterrent to any person who may be other than honest,

Gavin FITZPATRICK.
-------------------------------------



Paul Dicks
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 10281
Dogs 120 / Races 252

01 Oct 2022 12:27


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I don't know if he is still involved with the greyhounds, but besides being a lovely man and an absolute gentleman Tom Flanagan on here was unbelievable at predicting the colours of pups in a litter.



Simon Milgate
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2043
Dogs 23 / Races 0

01 Oct 2022 19:54


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Thanks for that, I could only describe his colour as blue fawn.

Aston Rupee is the sire and from early reports he is throwing a good variety of colours so who knows we might see some blue dogs up on the podium or even a blue fawn.




Paul Dicks
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 10281
Dogs 120 / Races 252

02 Oct 2022 00:21


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I'm no expert on the subject, but I do recall seeing pups change colours slightly when their undercoat falls out.


Phil Hall
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21

02 Oct 2022 03:15


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Paul Dicks wrote:

I don't know if he is still involved with the greyhounds, but besides being a lovely man and an absolute gentleman Tom Flanagan on here was unbelievable at predicting the colours of pups in a litter.

was only just thinking of Tom, while flicking through posts uncanny.yes he would know for sure, like you said in your description agree top fella bought some bombastic Shiraz pups of him very knowledgeable man

posts 8