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Repeat Matings	page 1 2 3


Wayne Osullivan Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2414 Dogs 3 / Races 0 22 May 2014 22:08 (0) (0)	As anyone an example of a repeat mating where the first litter was not very successful but the second one was a success ?


Phil Hall Australia (Verified User) Posts 1320 Dogs 21 / Races 21 22 May 2014 23:17 (0) (0)	lead to believe that there is 25000 different genetic combination that's why repeat matings don't always work don't know if that's right or not

Doug Taylor
Australia

(Verified User)
Posts 1896
Dogs 22 / Races 1
22 May 2014 23:29

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james saunders wrote:

the ultimate repeat mating.
CLICK HERE
shaped history.

And another
CLICK HERE


Keith Landles United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 252 Dogs 1 / Races 9 23 May 2014 17:58 (0) (0)	Droopys Nidge is a good and very recent example of repeat mating success. A very good historical one is Mondays News. By Orluck's Best out of Monday Next he won the Derby in 1946 and was runner up in '47. Previous matings had seen Monday's Son win the Scottish Derby and Momday's Sugar win consistently in minor open races. There are many others.


Declan Murphy Ireland (Verified User) Posts 3 Dogs 0 / Races 0 24 May 2014 09:39 (0) (0)	anyone who thinks that a repeat mating is not right are the eldest or an only child

Dave Lonergan
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 3410
Dogs 18 / Races 0
25 May 2014 05:15

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Nigel mc garry wrote:

Dave Lonergan wrote:

just to show how smart I am..lol.. I just did this repeat mating and no pup has run from first mating yet

CLICK HERE

Dave I hope you have as much luck as this repeat mating ( also must of done the same as you a repeat mating before the first litter reached the track, that takes ba**s )
CLICK HERE

ah sure Nigel don't I have the midas touch breeding...you should all listen to me ..lmao..now decided other day Tullymona Mona dam of Dragon big bux and Dragon doon is only to be mated to Dragon Shield for as long as she can breed....married so to speak so on honey six to 8 months they will enjoy repeat matings 2 a year hopefully or 3 times in 2 yrs


Len Jones Australia (Verified User) Posts 614 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Nov 2014 08:03 (0) (0)	My repeat mating produced, Sweet it is,Go mobo,Echolonic action,Smart maxwell, Mechatronic and Athletica. Not 3 yet and $700,000 in winnings The first litter produced Echelon and Granduer both top chasers.

Phil Hall
Australia

(Verified User)
Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21
15 Aug 2015 20:17

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len jones wrote:

My repeat mating produced, Sweet it is,Go mobo,Echolonic action,Smart maxwell,
Mechatronic and Athletica.
Not 3 yet and $700,000 in winnings

The first litter produced Echelon and Granduer both top chasers.

not big fan off repeat matings but! uno emi litter to oaks road has produced winning strike rate of 31.31% and over all placing 62.08% and over $ 131,000 in p/m plenty of racing left in them


Michael Smyth Ireland (Verified User) Posts 969 Dogs 20 / Races 0 15 Aug 2015 21:00 (0) (0)	Paradise Madison, mall Brady?

Phil Hall
Australia

(Verified User)
Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21
15 Jan 2016 06:50

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Sue Burley wrote:

An interesting article from the Greyhound Racing Victoria website giving some of the top breeders views on the subject of repeat matings.

Top breeders split on the science of repeat matings

There is a theory in greyhound folklore that when it comes to repeat matings the odds of the litter resulting in something special is minimal.

A repeat mating is a litter that is not the first produced to the same combination of sire and dam.

Regardless of how good a first mating may have been, some breeders blatantly refuse to take their dam back to the same sire.

Paul Wheeler is one of seven top breeders recently asked to express his views on repeat matings, and he didnt pull any punches when stating he isn't a big fan.

In my opinion when talking about breeding you can never say a particular thing happens all the time. The best we can say is something happens in the majority of cases, and that there is always an exception to the rule", Wheeler said.

"My experiences with repeat matings is that the quality appears to decrease each time the repeat mating occurs."

"That said, the best success I've had with them is not to mate to the same dog in succession, but to use say Dog A first, then Dog B second, then go back to Dog A. I have no idea why this is the case, but it seems to have work best for us in the past.

Victoria's Tony McGrath agrees that there is a good percentage of breeders that shy away from repeat matings, although the numbers have decreased over the years."

"What some people forget is that repeat matings occur when something special comes out of the first mating, so the dam is on a hiding to nothing because the expectations are often unrealistically high, McGrath said.

Interestingly, McGrath was one of three of the seven breeders [along with Peter Giles and Helen Ivers] who spoke glowingly about repeat matings based on their own experiences.

A fourth, Lenny Jones was also positive, and is looking forward to breeding his first repeat mating in the near future.

Paul Bartolo, currently ranked Victorias number one breeder according to Greyhound Racing Victoria rankings, has some scepticism about repeat matings despite the fact he has had good success from them, and his cautious views are shared to some degree by GRVs current number two breeder, Des Dooley.

Paul Bartolo (Victoria)
Q. Have you ever bred a repeat mating?
A. Several times.

Q. Would you breed a repeat mating in the future?
A. Possibly.

Q. Would you buy a pup from repeat mating?
A. No.

Comment: "I'm a bit 50/50 on repeat matings. I have had group winners from them, but from my experience our second litters haven't been quite as good as the first."

Des Dooley (Victoria)
Q. Have you ever bred a repeat mating?
A. Once.

Q. Would you breed a repeat mating in the future?
A. Probably.

Q. Would you buy a pup from repeat mating?
A. Maybe.

Comment: "I bred one repeat mating many years ago. I'd be a lot more confident about breeding a repeat mating again if the dam was six years old or younger and if she hadn't had more than three or four litters."

Peter Giles (Victoria)
Q. Have you ever bred a repeat mating?
A. Many times.

Q. Would you breed a repeat mating in the future?
A. Yes.

Q. Would you buy a pup from repeat mating?
A. Yes.

Comment: "The best litter Ihave ever bred was from a repeat mating of Gun Law Osti and Floodgate. Ihave bred repeat matings a lot of times and the second litter is always as good as the first,if not better."

Helen Ivers (Victoria)
Q. Have you ever bred a repeat mating?
A. A few times.

Q. Would you breed a repeat mating in the future?
A. Yes.

Q. Would you buy a pup from repeat mating?
A. Yes.

Comment: "I've always found them to work really well for me. Genetics is genetics and I don't understand why any breeder would shy away from repeat matings."

Lenny Jones (Victoria)
Q. Have you ever bred a repeat mating?
A. No.

Q. Would you breed a repeat mating in the future?
A. Yes.

Q. Would you buy a pup from repeat mating?
A. Yes.

Comment: "If the first mating was a success then I would certainly go to the same sire again. In fact Iplan tomate Offspringer with Mogambo again as the first litter has produced Echelon and Granduer."

Tony McGrath (Victoria)
Q. Have you ever bred a repeat mating?
A. Yes.

Q. Would you breed a repeat mating in the future?
A. Yes.

Q. Would you buy a pup from repeat mating?
A. Yes.

Comment: "Repeat matings generallyoccur when something special comes from the first mating,and the odds of something special coming from the second mating are going to be reduced, no matter which sire she goes to."

Paul Wheeler (NSW)
Q. Have you ever bred a repeat mating?
A. Yes.

Q. Would you breed a repeat mating in the future?
A. Yes, under special circumstances.

Q. Would you buy a pup from repeat mating?
A. Probably not.

Comment: "In general Iam not a big fan of repeat matings, but when a female has produced so good to a particular sire it is very tempting to have another go and see what happens."

Interesting repeat matings !! have broody that I'm tempted and probably will this year CLICK HERE her litter to oaks road has won almost 200,000 still plenty racing left.....her pups by cosmic rumble are 11 mths old look great and chase anything like mum


Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 21 Feb 2023 07:22 (0) (0)	Bump

Donna Sadler
Australia

(Verified User)
Posts 1731
Dogs 59 / Races 6
21 Feb 2023 09:30

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Paul Dicks wrote:

Bump

Very interesting thread and wonderful to see the big breeders opinions. Many cases FOR repeat matings and not so many against.

Peter Giles Comment: "The best litter Ihave ever bred was from a repeat mating of Gun Law Osti and Floodgate. Ihave bred repeat matings a lot of times and the second litter is always as good as the first,if not better."

Helen Ivers Comment: "I've always found them to work really well for me. Genetics is genetics and I don't understand why any breeder would shy away from repeat matings."

Des Dooley Comment: "I bred one repeat mating many years ago. I'd be a lot more confident about breeding a repeat mating again if the dam was six years old or younger and if she hadn't had more than three or four litters."

Of course Paul Wheeler and Paul Bartolo- esteemed breeders and not so keen BUT they both have done them with success.

Darren Leeson
Australia

(Verified User)
Posts 1343
Dogs 154 / Races 139
21 Feb 2023 11:43

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Nick Savva got nothing the first time he used Im Slippy! The repeat did the trick - https:/ CLICK HERE

Surf Lorian was mentioned, off the back of the smart Barrio Boy.

Steve White had a decent prolific winning litter, particularly over in WA, but the repeat produced Paua To Burn.

The great litter of Worth Doing, Wary Suspect, Metal Springs, Our Blue Haven. Was repeated, but nowhere near that great litter..

Ryan Vanderwert
Australia

(Verified User)
Posts 5958
Dogs 8 / Races 0
21 Feb 2023 13:42

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Darren Leeson wrote:

Nick Savva got nothing the first time he used Im Slippy! The repeat did the trick - https:/ CLICK HERE ......

and that's the exact time to do it, if you believe in the niche and it doesn't work the first time

Nicholas Arena
Australia

(Verified User)
Posts 233
Dogs 10 / Races 0
22 Feb 2023 00:07

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Thoroughbreds have 31 pairs of chromosomes ranging from the largest to the smallest in size plus a sex pairing (YX or XX) when semen is produced a random combination of each chromosome is undertaken - without going into the full science of how this work - the mathematics are 2 to the power of 31 meaning there are 2.147 billion random genetic combinations consisting of 31 paired chromosomes being placed into each sperm "tadpole" plus a sex pairing ( Note the Y gene will always be from the Sire who inherited it from his sire as his sire did from his - the X gene however is randomly selected from the various females in the sire's "X" position - NO two sperms contain the same chromosome/genetic material pairing. The same exercise is repeated (2.147 billion combinations) by the mare when producing her eggs - each egg has a randomly selected combination of the 31 chromosomes plus a sex pairing. When the successful sperm enters the egg one chromosome from each of the 31 pairings in sperm and the egg randomly pair up - the other pair are discarded - hence providing 31 unique chromosome pairings for the newly impregnated fetus plus a sex pairing which again is a random exercise.
So, in short no two off springs (Other than identical twins) will ever have the same DNA/32 chromosome pairings - this explains why so many full siblings fail to replicate each other's performance or even look different to each other in type. It also explains why breeders often repeat mating's they believe should work - just as Ryan has alluded too. For instance, Danehill is one of 9 repeat mating's - he was also the most successful on the track and in the barn - it is just how random genetic selection works - you can also think of Kingston Town - he was the first of 6 mating's between Bletchingly and Ada Hunter - the next best performed was Private Thoughts a good horse but no KT - the other 4 weren't much good in fact 2 didn't even race. Ada Hunter was unsuccessfully bred to two other sires.
For the curious there are numerous reference points - here are a couple 1. Thoroughbred Breeding Pedigree Theories and the Science of Genetics by Dr M Binns and Tony Morris. 2 There is an enormous amount of genetic research being undertaken by Associate Prof Emmeline Hill with Equine Science at University College Dublin in conjunction with a company called Plusvital which you can google.
As for dogs the best I can ascertain is they have 38 chromosome pairings plus a sex pairing making 39 in all. What I can't conclude is the maths as unlike thoroughbreds who in main only produce a single foal, greyhounds have liters. What I can conclude is the reason why liter performance is mostly varied as other than liter mates who are identical twins, they will all have different genetic combinations - I can also understand the reason why intense line/inbreeding works (more closely related genetic material thereby narrowing the random selection odds) - conversely, I can see how generational repetitive close inbreeding leads to a loss of performance and unsoundness, which in turn opens up the genetic to be shuffled by the use of an outcross.
In summary my view is that you repeat a mating you thoroughly believe in after seeing the results of the first mating. If the first mating fails - try again and even maybe again (if you have deep pockets and believe in the sire match). If the first mating works well, I wouldn't back the odds of random selection working again. I appreciate there are always exceptions but just like the roulette wheel, despite the occasional windfalls, the odds are the odds.


Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 22 Feb 2023 01:47 (0) (0)	That is 'repeat matings' gold Nicholas, perfectly stated. May I add ......and why matings should not be sanctioned because some brood bitches are deemed poorly performed after one or two litters.

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