The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.
Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.
If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.
In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.
has there been a successful sire from this damline recently????
Cheers
so we can assume that you will not be using him shane? seriously mate you go for the negative point straight off good to see you have a liking for freshman sires!
Mate .. seriously ... use him YES ... but he isnt 2 year old ... let him race and do what he is meant to do .... whether he is 2 or 5 .. he will be a freshman sire when he starts breeding. PEOPLE WILL USE HIM. It just pisses me off that people go straight for the cash when they get a good pup .... Gone are the days of racing a dog for the fun of it or to watch your dog achieve things that maybe no other has ... These days ... as soon as your dog wins a big race ... people are off drawing straws and making money ... Good on them .. and good luck to them .... But for me .. I do it because i love it ... to see my dogs run around ... not to cash in on the first hint of success
Shane, I'm sure you and Paul Westerveld both race dogs because you love it, the difference is that Paul's running a business. If you choose to make it a hobby (ie not make any money) that's your business, but I can't understand how you can have a go at a bloke for being successful and making a living for himself and his family! The minute someone has success the "couldabeens" cry it's not fair or "he gets all the luck" or "that trainer gets all the best dogs" etc etc. It's not unique to this industry either, we see it in all walks of life. So I'd say to Paul Westerveld, congratulations on a super win by Fabregas and hope you sell a few straws, and we all look forward to seeing him on the track again! Cheers Mick
I think its a smart move. Draw a few straws, use them on selected bitches and by the time his race career is over it wont be long until his pups are up and racing. If one of the straws produces a great litter then he could fill his quota for a long time. As it has already been said, the dog hasnt retired and his straws dont look like being for sale. Maybe connections are drawing as a bit of insurance. Anything can and does happen to the really smart ones. It would be one of the first things I would do if I had a dog as good as him come from a dam line I had developed for 4 or 5 generations. How would you feel if you had one as good and didnt draw him and he got bitten by a snake? As I've said I think its a smart move and best of luck to connections with him.
Totally agree with Ian
If he keeps going the way he has started he is going to be a dog in some demand when he finally goes fully to stud
If a life threatening incident happened to the dog tomorrow at least there a brace of frozen semen vials to use by some breeders at some time in the future
Rob Tyler Australia (Verified User) Posts 5176 Dogs 64 / Races 113 04 Sep 2012 10:11
(0)
(0)
Funny...I thought when you own a dog you can do what you like with it...can't you?
Westy might be collecting him now just in case the Chinese buy him! LOL (Only kidding folks...settle down)....they are after another son of Bombastic though, just quietly. Stay tuned.
Shane Carter Australia (Verified User) Posts 4842 Dogs 15 / Races 0 04 Sep 2012 10:44
(0)
(0)
Mick
I asked a question, no more no less...how is that having a go at anything OR anyone.....bizzare stuff really...
Has there been a successful sire from this damline? anyone?....this subject was about using Fabregas whom is a an excellent race dog, potentially a champ....without a doubt...but from a stud prospective?? as a BREEDER, I'm asking some a pretty basic information.......???
cheers
P.S. i hope Westy has a many many champs and then more
Grow up champ....I asked a question, no more no less...how is that having a go at anything OR anyone.....bizzare stuff really...
Has there been a successful sire from this damline? anyone?....this subject was about using Fabregas whom is a an excellent race dog, potentially a champ....without a doubt...but from a stud prospective?? as a BREEDER, I'm asking some a pretty basic information.......???
cheers
P.S. i hope Westy has a many many champs and then more....but don't assume you know me....my job is all about ethics and morality, so I don't need you to preach to me........
Shane (champ), You said "It just pisses me off that people go straight for the cash when they get a good pup". To me that sounds like you're having a go at Paul Westerveld (given this topic is about Fabregas), and all the others that have good pups/dogs and decide to take their dogs to stud. You also state that as a "BREEDER", you're asking some pretty basic information? Well it seems you've already decided this dog is not for you right now, good for you. But as you are a "BREEDER" I don't think it's appropriate for you to advise others, particularly on a public forum, when and what to do with their stud dogs. You also stated "I do it because I love it...to see my dogs run around...not to cash in on the first hint of success." So if Miata, Fabregas & Barcia Bale were in your kennels what would you be doing, running them at Healesville? PS. I don't know you, or assume to, just having a discussion.
[edited admin]
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 04 Sep 2012 13:15
(0)
(0)
Shane Carter wrote:
Mick
Grow up champ....I asked a question, no more no less...how is that having a go at anything OR anyone.....bizzare stuff really...
Has there been a successful sire from this damline? anyone?....this subject was about using Fabregas whom is a an excellent race dog, potentially a champ....without a doubt...but from a stud prospective?? as a BREEDER, I'm asking some a pretty basic information.......???
cheers
P.S. i hope Westy has a many many champs and then more....but don't assume you know me....
Shane
you have not had a good word to say about any of westys stud dogs and to the point questioned more than one producing through the Dam line!
The key point is this is an extremely talented dog who will be managed well like all stud dogs that westy stands and more to the point the question should be it this dog can forward on his genetic ability Into his offspring can be produce?
He will get the chance, he will get the bitches and here is hoping he can produce the goods!
[edited admin]
Shane Carter Australia (Verified User) Posts 4842 Dogs 15 / Races 0 04 Sep 2012 19:04
(0)
(0)
Mick
I take it you have problems reading/comprehension as I did not say any of the things that you have mentioned....Other people, ie another Shane replied to my original comment....mmmmmm I take it that you can NOW see that...please go back and review...
So I can expect an apology.......Mmmmmm???
Sean....
can you answer my question....as a breeder, I'm hoping that you have NOW eventually worked out what a damline is.....?? and if it's more sireline or damline...anyway...
You seem to know me as apparently I have a mantra and don't use first season sires but over the years I have used Elles' Commando, Stately Bird, Token Prince, Solve the Puzzle, Collision, Surf Lorian and the list goes on..all sires whom never had pups racing or were straight from racing when I used them...so YEH,I have a problem with new sire.....lol ....
whilst I have also put my hand up and have said, I was completely wrong about a sire....Sires like BDC and Trewly Special come to mind...so from both sides of the equation.....
anyway...cheers to both of you..... :)
[edited admin]
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 04 Sep 2012 19:39
(0)
(0)
The way I see it...it has become a trend for owners to retire quick dogs at a stage of their career that they should be taking on the best and as I said before it becomes very boring when they are advertised as broke down in his prime. Paul has had this breed for some time now and from that damline there have been a few handy puppies I,m sure he is a good business man and he,ll do the right thing by the dog and I doubt taking straws from him is,nt going to do too much damage The funny part about this game today is we have access to the net and the owners read what is being written on forums just like this and the owners will price accordingly the price and this is what interests me the price ...there are a few Bombastic Shiraz dogs at stud and they are priced around the 1500 mark and we must not forget the Bale dogs that have gone to stud ...so Paul all the best with your judgement on his stud value for mine he is valuable and from what I saw in the Final in Tassie he,s as quick as any dog that has put foot on a 1 turn track to me he is the real deal ..where is Harold Park
What's wrong with giving your thoughts? If you blokes can't see the link to other Dogs that have been no good at stud you must have blinkers on.
Let's hope Fabregas breaks the trend....I'm betting $1650 is the stud fee !
Doug Taylor Australia (Verified User) Posts 1896 Dogs 22 / Races 1 04 Sep 2012 22:42
(0)
(0)
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Fabregas has shown he is competitive at the top level on one turn as he is around the 2 turns.
A big plus for mine.
Agree Sandro, one thing that seemed to come up when visiting a lot of the top stud dogs of the past was their versatility to win on both the one and two turn tracks at a good level and this fella has proven he can do that already. Not bad for a pup still starting out in the racing game I would think.
As far as the ' damline doesn't throw stud dogs issue' is concerned then explain to me why 2 stud dogs from the same litter show where one is a raging success and the other one a failure OR that they throw different types of dog?
We have all seen it in the past, Dusty Rapid v Dusty Trail, Waverly Supreme v Laurdella Fun, Token Prince v Awesome McLaren, Brett Lee v Trendy Leigh etc
I believe each stud dog has to be judged on its merits on what he is capable of transmitting to the bitches he serves
e.g. Mogambo comes from a line that is renowned for damlines. Whilst he is not the leading stud dog he has shown he is capable of throwing good Group Class dogs
That's why I put little faith in those type of broadside comments.
I will be prepared to gamble on Fabregas as a stud dog
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 04 Sep 2012 23:02
(0)
(0)
the dam line for the record has produced, star witch produced path to power, witch magic won the gr2 ballarat cup, ashiga magic threw a handy dog in adulterous and wicked witch has thrown a freak in fabregas!
now if that is not proof o a dam line being able to produce and reproduce what is?
the other elements of fabregases dam line is having larkhill jo and bombastic shiraz now the versatillity is endless be it to brett lee bitches, go wild teddy bitches or collision bitches geez one would have to say it is very exciting as to what this dog will click with!
hope this helps clarify a qesution of "has there been a successful sire from this damline recently????"
while path to power has not lived up to expectations the dam line prodcues and this is as good in my eyes!
Doug Taylor Australia (Verified User) Posts 1896 Dogs 22 / Races 1 04 Sep 2012 23:10
(0)
(0)
While I'd certainly be prepared to take a leap of faith with this dog and use him the point Shane makes is a valid one. The line is more renowned for throwing real quality females and them producing on more than the males in a similar way to the Leprechaun line for example. Sobbing Sal/Wee Sal line was probably viewed a similar way for a while until a couple of dogs the calibre of Brett Lee and Big Daddy Cool came along.
Even though Path to Power was a top class dog and there's been other good males from the line, Fabregas is the top of the bunch for mine and could well be the 'Brett Lee' of this line that converts it to a sireline as well?
Shane Carter Australia (Verified User) Posts 4842 Dogs 15 / Races 0 04 Sep 2012 23:24
(0)
(0)
As I said a number of times, it hasn't to do with Westy at all..Westy is among the top 10 elite breeders in Australia ...not on numbers but on quality, strike rates (both city and group)..he a guy whom have admired for along time ..also nothing against PAW either whom is a fantastic example on how to improve on an already fantastic business model..a champion guy as well..The point is simple one ... For person like me, whom can get it just as much wrong as right (as breeding isn't exact science as we all know), breeds a few litters a year, I have over the years looked lines are damline and what are sire lines...work....the figures are there & I call them as I see them & more than happy to say, I was wrong...NOTHING personal at all..that's the problem these sites...people are very tribal...
the dam line for the record has produced, star witch produced path to power, witch magic won the gr2 ballarat cup, ashiga magic threw a handy dog in adulterous and wicked witch has thrown a freak in fabregas!
now if that is not proof o a dam line being able to produce and reproduce what is?
the other elements of fabregases dam line is having larkhill jo and bombastic shiraz now the versatillity is endless be it to brett lee bitches, go wild teddy bitches or collision bitches geez one would have to say it is very exciting as to what this dog will click with!
hope this helps clarify a qesution of "has there been a successful sire from this damline recently????"
while path to power has not lived up to expectations the dam line prodcues and this is as good in my eyes!
Lets also not forget that the great Star Witch only had 1 litter to Awesome Assassin before passing away when the litter was about 6 weeks old. That litter of 5 (i Think) produced Path to power, Witch Magic, Upon a star and Star Warlock. Which in anyones eyes was a freakish litter and if things had turned out different and Star Witch was able to have a few more litters i think she would of gone down as one of the all time greats .
So for a line to do what its done with that misfortune i think its been a brilliant effort by Paul and he should be admired and not have to read some of the crap that gets written, Its the same with Wheeler we should look up at such people and praise them instead of being jealous of the success they achieve.
You are still not getting the point. The females from the damline are producing but the males (Path to Power) being the most high profile haven't as yet.
This along with many other factors can & will influence a breeder.
Westerveld, Lockett etc etc are the best breeders because they don't wear rose coloured glasses. They set the high benchmark & if you speak to them I'll bet there are sires they won't use for same reason Shane speaks of.
In the end, there's not a person out there that is a breeding expert, so I'd be cautious about predicting the future of any freshman sire.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
