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Tom Woods Australia (Verified User) Posts 518 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Nov 2012 10:58
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Keen on this dog think he could be something special at stud
Jason Bolwell Australia (Verified User) Posts 67 Dogs 15 / Races 0 06 Nov 2012 13:38
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Tom Woods wrote:
Keen on this dog think he could be something special at stud
I will be using him on my race bitch "Here's Hayley" when she finishes racing. Still can't work out the CLICK HERE thing, check it out if you have a chance and let me know what you think.
Johnathon Campbell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4635 Dogs 5 / Races 2 06 Nov 2012 14:07
Grant Thomas Australia (Verified User) Posts 11447 Dogs 64 / Races 20 06 Nov 2012 14:44
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That's a very interesting breeding...like to know what Tom; Ryan; A-G...think of all that up close relo blood...
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 06 Nov 2012 19:38
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Grant genetically at face value it's not getting the max out of the intensity you'd create, the way I look at breeding. By that I mean HH or Brett Lee isn't in xy, Web of Silence or Elusive Rebel is not in xx, presuming of course this is Jason's intention to get the max genetically out of those combinations.
The other thing is that quite a few breeders may now know that it's best to duplicate HH further back into the ped as possible and a 3x cross MAY lead to the pups being a handful.
To me they are the 'not so goods' again the way I look at breeding.
The really interesting thing Jason has created with this mating is the xy combination of litterm8's GWT and Mean Bean. Usually when the chromesomes are different (xy) the dog concerned wld be the same, i.e. duplicated, and when the chromes wld be the same (xx) the dogs or bitches (littermates/full blood relations) wld be different. Again thats to get the max effect of xy & xx and how it's been with the champion or superstar type racers in Aus for example for xy CLICK HERE ; CLICK HERE ; CLICK HERE and thru litterm8's or full blood relations when in xx CLICK HERE ; CLICK HERE ; CLICK HERE .
By literally having that 'different' xy combo thru litterm8's (dont know that you can even call it xy) has me intrigued, as assume because it's so close up (2x3), there's more of a chance of it having a greater influence within the ped.
Perhaps Doug who is far more genetically minded than myself may offer an opinion as to it's effect.
Tom Woods Australia (Verified User) Posts 518 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Nov 2012 20:12
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I don't mind the match up Jason would be interesting to see how they turn out crossing great sires how can it go wrong in my opinion. Will be taking my bitch spiral nakita fancy candy broke in 1900 at dennis barnes cudal and trialled some very quick times before going off the boil then the original owner trainer of the bitch had x rays over her body and found she had a torn hip support for quite amount of time never to race again she tore it in the wentworthpark magic maiden
Don Haley Australia (Verified User) Posts 176 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Nov 2012 21:23
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Does anyone know when Barcia Bale will commence stud duties and who he will be standing with?
Tom Woods Australia (Verified User) Posts 518 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Nov 2012 21:37
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Paul westerveld at meticulous lodge I have rang him he has no straws ATM as he want to fix barcia bales injury before selling his straws
Tom Woods Australia (Verified User) Posts 518 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Nov 2012 21:39
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I do know Paul reads these forums sometimes come on Paul where are they lol
Jarrad Dale Australia (Verified User) Posts 2143 Dogs 27 / Races 82 06 Nov 2012 22:40
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
The other thing is that quite a few breeders may now know that it's best to duplicate HH further back into the ped as possible and a 3x cross MAY lead to the pups being a handful.
I think/thought this as an old wives tale, there have been numerous examples with hh duplicated succesfully in close postiions...
Have you got any further examples/proof of this statment? Especialy them being handfulls? I alway thought that " rumor " was they were fragile...
Even just looking at supermans top off spring there are numerous examples proving this " rumor " could be incorrect CLICK HERE http:/ CLICK HERE http:/ CLICK HERE
Kai Skehan-Bernard Australia (Verified User) Posts 31 Dogs 3 / Races 0 06 Nov 2012 23:46
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 07 Nov 2012 01:33
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Jarrad Dale wrote:
Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
The other thing is that quite a few breeders may now know that it's best to duplicate HH further back into the ped as possible and a 3x cross MAY lead to the pups being a handful.
I think/thought this as an old wives tale, there have been numerous examples with hh duplicated succesfully in close postiions...
Have you got any further examples/proof of this statment? Especialy them being handfulls? I alway thought that " rumor " was they were fragile...
Even just looking at supermans top off spring there are numerous examples proving this " rumor " could be incorrect CLICK HERE http:/ CLICK HERE http:/ CLICK HERE
I used to think so as well however have heard from a breeder of this to be case & they have had a couple of litters of dup HH. Also having heard 1st hand HH was not an easy one to train, it's understandable how they cld draw such a conclusion.
In general though I wld agree most of these types of statements are nothing but wivestales possibly derived from peoples one off experiences and the 'fragile' comment may fall into that category, but not saying that is def the case.
Also of those examples one was in general, a top racedog.
Jarrad Dale Australia (Verified User) Posts 2143 Dogs 27 / Races 82 07 Nov 2012 03:16
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
I used to think so as well however have heard from a breeder of this to be case & they have had a couple of litters of dup HH. Also having heard 1st hand HH was not an easy one to train, it's understandable how they cld draw such a conclusion.
A " couple " of litters is a very small sample size to be drawing conclusions from. Especialy when there are multiple examples of it working i defantly would not be drawing to any conclusions of a couple of litters....
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 07 Nov 2012 03:24
Glenn Hatton Australia (Verified User) Posts 4852 Dogs 92 / Races 98 07 Nov 2012 08:22
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HH a handful to train? Imagine he'd have been a dream to train.
20 starts 18 wins.
Traits of offspring...
Fragile? No.
Chase instinct? Yes.
But in saying that Ryan, I have had 6 GWT pups over the years & some interaction with a few others & none of those have been full on. I used HH in 2000 over a mildly timid bitch & got good chasers (albeit with limited ability). Whatever trait he's thrown (consistently) would have to be more often than not CHASE...this doesn't sit well with the assumption of stock being fragile when doubling him up.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 07 Nov 2012 08:51
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glenn hatton wrote:
HH a handful to train? Imagine he'd have been a dream to train.
20 starts 18 wins.
Traits of offspring...
Fragile? No.
Chase instinct? Yes.
But in saying that Ryan, I have had 6 GWT pups over the years & some interaction with a few others & none of those have been full on. I used HH in 2000 over a mildly timid bitch & got good chasers (albeit with limited ability). Whatever trait he's thrown (consistently) would have to be more often than not CHASE...this doesn't sit well with the assumption of stock being fragile when doubling him up.
I have had quite a few dogs trained by the people who trained HH for 14 wins in his 1st 15 starts and they have told me on a number of occassions he was a very tempremental dog.
GWT litters especially his early ones were reported to be full on types. I wld have imagined he got that from his old man but hey I cld be wrong, along the people who bred those litters. As Jarrad says it cld all be old wivestales.
Then with litters of him doubled up you hear similar reports. All I said was it's understandable how people put 2 & 2 together. It was Jarrad that said he heard they were fragile.
But yes it's also good to hear of your experiences and opinions with HH offspring, people can then get a more holistic view and make up their own minds.
Glenn Hatton Australia (Verified User) Posts 4852 Dogs 92 / Races 98 07 Nov 2012 09:16
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Ryan
There is no such thing as a 'breeding expert' so your opinion is as good as anyone's I guess.
HH full on comment was tongue in cheek. You can't complain abt a dog if it won 14 from 15 for you!
As I said, people (after seeing him doubled a bit now) are realising the predominant trait he throws is chase.
Jason Bolwell Australia (Verified User) Posts 67 Dogs 15 / Races 0 07 Nov 2012 12:01
Thanks for all your comments and I realise this thread is to discuss "Barcia Bale", but would any of you like to suggest a sire that you would use on "Here's Hayley"
Jarrad Dale Australia (Verified User) Posts 2143 Dogs 27 / Races 82 07 Nov 2012 13:11
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
