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Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 16 Oct 2020 02:51
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Hope that was cathartic for you Nathan...better out than in lol
Its called debate...you dont agree with me and I dont agree with you...big deal...
Btw you dont need to go tell Wheeler or Kavanagh directly...youre saying as much here. Even took a swipe at Fernando Bale in the top earners link you posted.
Dont worry, after reading your dribble in this topic...Im not taking much notice of you either!!
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19486 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 16 Oct 2020 02:56
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Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
The process of natural selection adapts itself to the environment
Larger dogs are more prevalent on larger tracks, more frequently they were full on sprinters who struggled over 700m
Hence in Victoria where horseshoe tracks dominate the landscape we see fields dominated by 33kg+ dogs who can just run out 400m
Coursing Dogs in Ireland are over 40kg and when that blood they very rarely produced distance dogs. they injected speed and durability that became more prevalent in generations over time e.g. Tivoli Dreamer
Smaller dogs were more adaptable to tighter tracks and those tracks favoured speedy bitches
Ungwilla Lad at 29.5kg was a bit of an enigma as he was a wide runner and excelled at Harold Park where he used to finish hard down the middle of the track over 457m
However, the greatest stayers of our days gone by were 23-26kg bitches and many of them now still are
The reason why the races are getting shorter is partly because people are not using stamina lines in their breeding programmes & partly because the racing powers that are bowing to the pressure being put on them to put on shorter races so they can fill TAB betting contracts
Really ????
Its not what the top ten greyhounds of all time money earners says
Theres only one odd one out ..... Ill let u figure it out
All bitches 28kg + and dogs 32kg+ ..... stayers /sprinters of all time !
But you are all correct in bringing out the unusual example or 1 in 10,000 Pups
Meanwhile 9 of 10 on my table clearly show otherwise , thats 90% and thats without harada being there , he also is what ??? Thats right 35kg
Keep dribbling your dream time one outs past heroes and then in the same breathe scratch your head and complain about short races and whats happened to our breed whilst watching blokes walk out with 27kg male dogs
Top breeding !?!?!?
So your solution is what?
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 16 Oct 2020 02:58
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2nd dam of the magnificent specimen on Nathans flawed list Dyna Double One and dam of a Group 1 winner - EXTERNAL LINK
Pretty safe to say Paul Wheeler doesnt agree with Nathan...seeing he bred with a 23.5kg bitch for Group 1 success and uses 28-29kg Fernando Bale!
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19486 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 16 Oct 2020 03:07
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From what I have read and in interviews I have heard, hasn't Paul Wheeler always been the advocate of trying to breed male dogs around 32-33kg mark by complementing the size of the male/female?
As far as I have read he breeds for 2-turn racing in the city for dogs to maximize their energy at 450m-600m
I don't think he really cares if he gets a 700m dog or not, that's a bonus for him
He has never put a bitch to El Grand Senor, as good a sire as he is, because he tends to get big dogs that are short coursers
He seems to do alright with his breeding ventures.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1222 Dogs 13 / Races 0 16 Oct 2020 05:14
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So as usual on data , the original topic or statement gets lost in translation amongst hundreds of words of waffle
I started this by commenting on a statement that said size means absolutely nothing
Any decent breeder will tell you everything matters , hence Poeple dont use el grand senor for reasons !
I merely pointed out on the opposite end of the scale to el grand that Fernando throws dogs and bitches that could be mistaken for whippets !
Disagree all you like , its not new news , its everyones number 1 and first complaint .
So when I read of the cherry picked new star thats just out of this world and glorified beyond zero faults
I have no hesitation in pointing out the flip side of the coin
Good luck to connections , trainer , breeder and owners , well done !
Im not ill wishing or even going into that area , which has obviously been drawn into this debate somehow ?
Just like brett lee , magic sprite and el grand senor etc they all have flaws and have left their mark on bloodlines past and future , not all good either !
There is no solution , there is no perfect sire and never will be
But it doesnt mean I cant voice or point out the obvious good or negative instead of swallowing waffle every time it appears ???
Maybe a great chasing 30kg el grand senor bitch might just be what Fernando is looking for in throwing his next honest chasing litter with an even nice size about them !
Wouldnt that be great for the industry as a whole moving forward and most importantly upward .
Instead of sugar shot litters that will fetch a price at 3 months
Ps . Sugar Shot could be a nice name for a Fernando son , good luck to Xerri and tommy tonight in the big one ! Both nice sizes noted ....... no small dogs in this field
Funny that
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19486 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 16 Oct 2020 05:28
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Nathan
I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with you.
I am just trying to understand your argument.
I have never said anything is perfect or any one way is right or not
Everyone knows that Fernando throws small dogs, as does Oaks Road and others as well
You came one saying that the breed will be extinct because we are using small dogs.
Over the years there have been successful large dogs and successful small dogs and that I feel will continue into the future
As a breeder you need to find your own way with the female you have
Your way of thinking may be completely different to mine, but you have as much chance as being correct as I have of being wrong
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1222 Dogs 13 / Races 0 16 Oct 2020 06:41
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No worries Sandro , all good
I never mentioned or typed the word extinct at all
Detrimental, yes
Which ever way you choose to look at it as a whole , everyones choice
Italian greyhound runs 30 mtr
Whippet greyhound run 200mtr
Greyhounds run 500 mtr
My common sense tells me down sizing any breed in general will not upgrade the breed but lessen it over all , hence my 180 mtr box starts in 2030 comment and my dislike to the statement that someone made size means nothing at all
Good luck
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5956 Dogs 8 / Races 0 16 Oct 2020 12:01
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Nathan you've made your point very well as has Darren, but it is important to respect each others right to have a view without the personal attacks.
I enjoy reading what you write and it was you Nathan who pointed me toward looking into 100% intensities, the results of which I incorporate into pedigrees I look at - they have their place. We all learn off and prompt each other to research more, that's why this is such a gr8 site.
I hope its not 6 months before we see you post again. Cheers.
Howard Moshinsky USA (Verified User) Posts 886 Dogs 3 / Races 0 18 Oct 2020 12:55
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al davis nfl oakland raiders
WIN BABY WIN
MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING BUT WHOLE POST VERY INTERESTING
FERNANDOS HALF BROTHER KELSO GUARDIAN WAS SMALLISH SOLD TO DUBAI 200,000 DOLLARS EXCUSE CAPITALS
David Brasch Australia (Team Member) Posts 844 Dogs 2138 / Races 9672 18 Oct 2020 23:12
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Howard
Kelso Guardian is NOT a half brother to Fernando Bale Yes, he would be regarded as such in the human race, but certainly not in greyhound, thoroughbred and harness horse breeding
DB
Howard Moshinsky USA (Verified User) Posts 886 Dogs 3 / Races 0 19 Oct 2020 01:29
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thanks david never knew that
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 19 Oct 2020 02:40
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As if breeders are stupid enough to breed themselves into oblivion by using small sires, it's such a ridiculous argument.
I recall a similar discussion about Brett Lee over a decade ago.
It's a similar premise to the ludicrous restrictions on services by sires.
Robert Morris Australia (Verified User) Posts 695 Dogs 0 / Races 0 20 Oct 2020 21:29
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Im no breeding guru, but I would have thought breeders are using the fastest sires & broods regardless of size & that the breed is getting little bit faster every generation. I would have thought stamina, chase and sturdiness of the breed is more a concern than size.
John Tierney Ireland (Verified User) Posts 169 Dogs 7 / Races 0 21 Oct 2020 12:52
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howard moshinsky wrote:
al davis nfl oakland raiders
WIN BABY WIN
MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING BUT WHOLE POST VERY INTERESTING
FERNANDOS HALF BROTHER KELSO GUARDIAN WAS SMALLISH SOLD TO DUBAI 200,000 DOLLARS EXCUSE CAPITALS
Any idea why they bought him,covering salukis?
Howard Moshinsky USA (Verified User) Posts 886 Dogs 3 / Races 0 21 Oct 2020 13:25
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john the crown prince probably want him for the road races where they run after a gazelle tied to a car he ended up injured and tested out as infertile but john kelso kelly made out real well
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 04 Dec 2022 08:40
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Robert Morris wrote:
Im no breeding guru, but I would have thought breeders are using the fastest sires & broods regardless of size & that the breed is getting little bit faster every generation. I would have thought stamina, chase and sturdiness of the breed is more a concern than size.
Good post! So, with Barcia Bale all but gone from the sire ranks, Fernando Bale somewhat in the twilight of his career and the likes of Zambora Brockie & Aston Dee Bee having shortened stud careers. Which sires are going to takeover the mantle?
Aussie Infrared (35.5kg), Bernardo (34.5kg), Beast Unleashed (32kg), Feral Franky (31.5kg), Good Odds Harada (35.5kg), Hooked On Scotch (33.5kg) have all started well.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1222 Dogs 13 / Races 0 05 Dec 2022 05:12
I think breeding to these studs wouldnt send you broke in a hurry ! All three damlines having the ability to throw back to a performed distance bitch with awesome speed also
All three will be in the top 5 sires by 2025 is my guess
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 05 Dec 2022 06:17
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Talking of small sires. It's funny no one is predicting a future sire with a Brett Lee sire line. I recall someone said recently the Brett Lee sire line was all but finished and they got shouted down.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19486 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 05 Dec 2022 09:04
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Talking of small sires. It's funny no one is predicting a future sire with a Brett Lee sire line. I recall someone said recently the Brett Lee sire line was all but finished and they got shouted down.
Maybe LA Grand Quality will be the saviour of the Brett Lee line
Black Magic Opal, Ando's Mac, Sulzanti, Bewildering Lightning Frank & Jury are trying to hold it together at the moment
He was a true speed dog, a Warragul Cup winner and a Maitland 450m track record holder and a magnificent specimen at 35.5kg
He also comes from a magnificent damline and his grandmother One Tree Hill was as good a chaser as I have ever seen
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
