I started training in the mid 70's and I had the privilege to learn from some of the best of that time. Gordon Strachan, Allan Roberts, Ned Bryant. What did they feed.....the best meat they could buy, vegies(silverbeet/parsley/celery/carrots, all cooked)and the additives of the time. I stopped training in 1988 and returned in 2007 and fed this way.

You guys keep calling the dry food of today, Kibble. It is whole dry food. Farrells Kibble was what most trainers used back then, Box 1 4x2 biscuits is that mixture today.

Typical Analysis
Crude Protein 12% | Crude Fat 3% | Crude Fibre 5% | Salt 1%

Ingredients
Wholegrain cereal and cereal by-products, meat and meat by-products (derived from beef and/or lamb
and/or chicken), tallow, dicalcium phosphate, garlic powder, salt, natural flavouring, emulsifier, natural
colour, preservatives and antioxidants.

This was a balanced part of the dogs diet in those days.

Back then backyard trainers were the norm and IMO when big kennels started to arrive easy and more economical ways to feed was a need that had to be filled, hence the whole dry food industry began.

As a trainer do what works for you, if you are having success continue what you are doing, if not change, learn and find what works.

Now we have no real KIBBLE apart from the 4x2's mix so no matter what brand you are using the appropriate amount needs to be worked out. I use XP3020........30% Protien, 20% Fat, I use a minimal amount with racing beef because that is all they need.

Because Farrells kibble was stopped being made a few years back and I got sick of breaking up 4x2's to feed a dozen dogs I dried out wholemeal bread to use as kibble, and as some are calling it a filler, which it is not, the dogs were all performing so so but all still maidens. I steered away from the new because I was locked in the past, then I researched and found in XP3020 everything I had given my racing dogs in the past in this format. I changed to XP and in three weeks the litter could not stop winning races.

Long winded, but there you go.

I disagree..."There is no one way to feed a dog" because of the simple fact the general make up of all Greys is the same.
Apart from proportions, special additives for special conditions, and slight variations, all dogs will benefit from a diet that's right.
They will also all suffer if it's WRONG.

The big Group producing kennels basically feed the same way for each dog, probably not through want, but because of numbers. I'm sure there would be exceptions to this.
The majority of their dogs are not owned by them and have limited time there.
The dogs go there because they have extraordinary ability.
The trainers feed what the dog's system needs to perform at its best for the short time its there. They feed good meat, and variations of what they believe is the best source of fat and carbs, which for many, includes kibble. So, these fast dogs get what their bodies need to perform.

My situation is different as my dogs stay with me for much longer, because I breed and race predominantly my own.
That's why I'm searching for an alternative kibble free diet in hope of prolonging their racing lives with less complications.
In my mind, dogs might derive a miniscule amount of benefit from kibble, but the LONG TERM DAMAGE isn't worth it, FOR ME.
There are far more negatives to kibble than positives, IN THE LONGER TERM. That also goes for the many "must have" additives as well.
But that would be just another opinion.

Thanks Charles.

I think I will take more notice of what you have written than a dozen research articles by university people that know one knows.

"A study conducted in Stockholm, Sweden by Dr. Kollath showed that young animals fed a cooked, processed diet initially appeared to be healthy, but once they reached maturity, they began to rapidly age and develop degenerative disease symptoms. The control group that was raised on a raw, uncooked diet did not age as fast and showed no degenerative disease symptoms but remained healthy."

They are talking about kibble.

my first dog Wonderact was whelped Dec 75, I won my first race in 77. I did spend a couple of years before that helping Gordon and learning what to do, which was probably the reason why I won my first race at Cranbourne and my first city race at Olympic Park in the first 6 months of having a license.

And Michael, when I say "no one way to feed a dog" I am meaning what brand you may use. One may not be better than another, the measure is "the success rate" I went from boiled lollies to chocolate when I switched to XP3020 in 3 weeks.

Cheers

You had a really quick bitch that ran a place in a Laurels final too didn't you ? Attaining ?

I think you are selling yourself a bit short. Maybe your dogs benefited from the preparation you gave them prior to the switch to XP3020. What do you think has made the difference?

Fair enough, Charles.
Out of interest, how were the veges prepared?
Did you mash them?

Also, in those days I'm guessing there were no commercial electrolyte formulas...could you tell me what you gave them for post race rehydration?

Cheers.

Sorry...just thought the more info the better...especially about the 'need' for carbs...

FEEDING THE RACING GREYHOUND

The feeding regimes that are applied to the racing greyhound have a major influence on their health and their athletic performance and robustness. Ideally the greyhound should be presented with a naturally well-pigmented and glossy coat and a well muscled and toned body with particular emphasis on the muscling of the back. Both historically and scientifically there exist enormous variations of dietary recommendations and in reality there are some major paradoxes between dietary science and the composition of proven greyhound performance diets. For my part I have proceeded along the pathway of what works and time will resolve the science of what we do and why it works so well.

Here in Australia our major dietary advantage is the availability of affordable quality fresh meat. To be able to optimise the diet of the racing greyhound a high protein fresh meat source is the principle staring point. The ideal high protein cuts of beef are tongue or cheek and the quality must be HUMAN CONSUMPTION GRADE.
The ideal dry food source needs to be manufactured using quality ingredients and that translates to, no BY-PRODUCTS. It is essential that the dry food be WHEAT FREE. The dry food protein content should be at least 30% and the fat content at least 20%. At least two meat or poultry meals should be in the first four listed ingredients. There should be at least three different animal proteins in the food and this excludes the egg content. There should be no content of soy, peanut hulls, cellulose or sugars of any type. Probiotics should be present as well as vitamins A, E and D and B-group and a soluble fibre source such as beet pulp.
The meat and dry food components are the most critical ingredients of the racing greyhound diet. It is to be noted that extreme emphasis has been given to quality. The quotation what goes round comes round applies absolutely to greyhound dietary ingredients. It is difficult to conceive how trainers could believe that they could achieve performance optimisation and consistency where the dietary meat source is downer beef. This beef is sourced from cattle that have succumbed from calving mishaps, milk fever, grass tetany, infectious diseases and fractured limbs. A goodly proportion of this meat is bacteremic or toxic (despite its treatment with formalin) and this will severely and dramatically affect the health status of the racing greyhound. All of my consistently winning greyhound patients are fed meat of a quality equivalent to human consumption meat.
The similar discussion can be mounted in relation to the quality of the dry food that is incorporated into the diet. As I outlined above, the criteria for a truly quality dry food is exacting. Whilst some dry foods might approach the necessary quality of formulation the Eagle Power pack is the only dry food that conforms to my definition of ideal for the racing greyhound. The concept of dry food only diets is worthy of notation. Regardless of the quality of the dry food, in my experience it is not possible to present a performance optimised greyhound unless the diet is meat based.
WHEN THE ABOVE FEEDING RECOMMENDATIONS ARE APPLIED THE GREYHOUNDS WILL PRESENT WITH GLOSSY COATS, MAGNIFICIENTLY MUSCLED BODIES, EXHIBIT PRIME HEALTH AND CAN SUSTAIN THE STRESSES OF RACING.
The traditional and historic greyhound diet was home formulated and conformed to the following type:
BREAKFAST:
One cup of milk
One or two slices of toast with vegemite and margarine
Vitamin E and vitamin C
TEA:
1 to 1 lb beef
6 to 8 oz dry food (water soaked)
4 oz vegetable mix (cooked or vitamised pumpkin, carrot, celery, silver beet or spinach leaf (no stalk)
1 oz vitamised fresh beef liver
Vitamin mix
teaspoon potassium chloride powder or slow K tablet
1 tablespoon of apple cider vinegar
Iron supplement
NOTE: 1Kg = 2.2 lb and 16 oz =1 lb.
Following a race this diet was presented as a moist stew. In addition many trainers also supplemented various kidney mixtures and often on a daily basis. These kidney additives are various diuretic or bicarbonate formulations. Electrolyte mixes were also frequently added to the diet.
Once a week the greyhounds are provided a thighbone shaft and knuckle to chew to provide for teeth cleaning and gum health.
This diet is an acceptable diet where the following alterations are applied. The diet must be converted to wheat free and as such the morning toast requires to be replaced by rice cake. The dry food in the evening meal must be of a wheat free variety. Where the trainer cannot afford to feed the premium dry foods such as Eagle Power then the use of dry food such as the Greens Special Care Chicken and Rice is an acceptable alternative. Be very conscious of the fact that a considerable number of greyhounds become wheat sensitive and that when they do they are incapable of exhibiting their race performance potential. Also recognise that the wheat sensitive greyhound is not born wheat sensitive but rather it becomes sensitised most commonly after a gastroenteric infection where the wheat allergens come into contact with the vascular components of the gut.
I would suggest the complete removal of oral iron supplementation and its replacement with a once monthly intramuscular injection of ml (= 50mg) of Rubrafer iron (Intervet Aust.) and 1ml Vitamin B12.
The use of kidney flushes or additives and the use of electrolyte mixtures are of great concern. It is this area of greyhound diet formulation where the worst of the past ignorance lives on and the greatest dietary harm can be done. When the greyhound exhibits signs of dehydration or of excessive drinking (polydipsia) or urination (polyuria) the answer to the problem is never found to be a primary electrolyte deficiency. It may be the result of a potassium deficiency created by the supplementation of alkalising electrolyte agents where the supplemented bicarbonate or lactate has induced a potassium diuresis and hence created a potassium deficiency. It may be the result of a training regime where the greyhound is over-worked and has insufficient recovery rest time. It is often found to be the result of poor kennelling environment such a cold, immediate neighbour incompatibility and kennel hyperactivity. It can be the expression of an injury state such as injury of the left vastus or it can be the expression of infection states. Be very conscious of the fact that the majority of electrolyte supplementation is based on erroneous logic or diagnosis. On the one hand the trainer is led to believe that the provision of acid neutralising bases such as bicarbonate or lactate will, by reducing the acid levels in the greyhound aid and assist the performance and stamina of the dog. On the other hand the trainer is conditioned to the application of electrolytes to the greyhound when the dog is observed to exhibit signs of dehydration. In the first instance, the concept of improving the buffering system of the greyhound by the supplementation of acid neutralising bases is blatantly physiologically incorrect and is detrimental. In the second instance, trainers need improved guidance to assist their ability to differentiate the underlying factors that are seen to result in dehydration.
The provision of potassium in the diet is the only electrolyte supplement that is routinely required. Equally important, the avoidance of any agents that promote the renal diuresis of potassium cannot be emphasised strongly enough.
The final consideration that must be applied to this diet is its fat content. The greyhound sources its energy from fat. The TOTAL fat content of its diet should approximate 10%. Where the meat is lean and the fat content of the dry food is low the addition of fat to the diet is essential. The addition of fat is achieved by the use of a quality fat such as pork fat (lard) and the amount to be added is arrived at by an arithmetic guest mate. Lean meat will contain less than 5% fat. The dry food has a label-listed fat content and for the sake of the discussion let this content be 5%. Given a total meat and dry food mass in the diet of 30 oz and a dry food and meat fat content of 5% then an additional 5% of fat must be provided (5% of 30 oz which is 1.5 oz). In general terms where the dietary meat is lean, most trainers will add 1 to 2 tablespoons of lard and this is often guided by the time of the year. That is to say in the warmer months the fat is added more sparingly while in the colder months that fat is added more liberally. Be very conscious of the fact that the greyhound sources its energy from fat. The use of sugars in the diet of the greyhound is contraindicated and harmful.
This now modified traditional diet is a very suitable greyhound racing diet and will provide for the dietary needs of the racing greyhound.
It is of interest to note that my most successful greyhound patients are fed a diet that consists of human consumption grade beef cheek or tongue, wheat free premium grade dry food and potassium chloride supplement only. They are not supplemented with vitamins and no vegetables are added to the diet. The whos who list of these greyhounds includes the most notable of the Australian racing and stud greyhounds.
The only additional food supplement that is added to the diet of my most successful greyhounds is Transfer Factor. This is an extremely effective stimulant of the immune system and has been found to be able to overcome the immunosuppressive effect of consistent hard racing. Here the greyhounds are initially supplemented with one capsule twice daily for two weeks and then given a pre-race and post-race supplementation of one capsule daily for the two days before and after the race.
These dietary recommendations are based on the philosophy of what works. It flies in the face of the canine nutritionists and presents quite a paradox to the science of canine feeding. It must be born in mind however that the greyhound occupies a truly special place in the canine world of today in that it is the only domesticated canine that is subjected to a selection process that could still be defined as natural selection. It would seem that the wild dog and the greyhound are capable of ingesting what is essentially a native diet that is predominantly meat and yet maintain calcium homeostasis--- adds to the suspicion that there are very few domesticated true dogs left on the planet. How fortunate it is that the role the greyhound has been given in society has led to its selection criteria and in this way maintained its real dog metabolism and functionality.

FEEDING
Jason Thompson has been through all the fads, all the feeding routines, and settled on basic.
Meat and kibble is about it. In the morning every dog gets two 2x2 Box 1 biscuits. No fluids are fed.
For the night meal, the dogs are fed very lean beef and Hills Science Diet. Added to that meal is potassium in a soluble form, a liver tablet and a Thyroxine tablet nothing else with the exception of about 400 to 500mls of hot water.
They get the same morning and evening meals, seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year, he said. We dont change anything.
Jason says he went through the stage of whatever was on the shelf at the feed store, we had to try.
Over the years we tried everything, but I believe the longer you are in greyhound racing, the less of that stuff you use, he said. Whether people believe me or not, that is exactly what we feed.
He is a stickler for getting regular blood tests on each racing dog in his kennel, and regularly takes each dog to the vet for a muscle check, at least every two weeks.

Ron Ball feeding
FEEDING
Balls greyhounds, like most having to cope with the heat in Queensland, get plenty of fluids. Breakfast for all greyhounds in Balls care consists of 500mls of a milk powder (Ensure) and water. To this is added 10mls of Stamezene an electrolyte made specifically for racehorses.
It is caramel flavoured and it tempts a dog to drink the fluid, said Ball.
The milk is given first and when finished, each dog is given a 4x2 biscuit.
Dinner is meat and kibble with vitamins added, just like most other greyhounds in the country.
Dogs are fed between 680gms and 950gms of meat, bitches get between 550gms and 580gms. Kibble is only ever Farrells and varies between 100gm and 150gms for each dog.
I have fed Farrells for as long as it has been on the market and have no intention of changing, said Ball.
Daily vitamins are 20mls of Sprint Oil, DCP powder, a Beta K tablet and one Methanine 90 tablet.
Feramo D and Kelp are fed every second night and Ironcyclen is fed three times a week.
I always put one cup of boiling water over the kibble, then add the meat and vitamins, said Ball. The boiling water makes the meal warm when it is given to the dogs.
Every second night he will grate carrot and apple over the dogs dinners.
I used to chop spinach and mix it in, but with 25 dogs in work I dont have time for that, he said. It hasnt affected their ability not getting it.

Darren McDonald FEEDING
McDonald says he feeds simply.
Each dog gets a 4x2 biscuit for breakfast. In the cold of Victoria there is no need to feed fluids to the dogs in the morning, he says, unless the dog has trialled or galloped up the straight.
The evening meal is just as simple.
We feed Hills Science Diet as our dry food and have been using it for the past 10 or 12 years, he said.
Bitches receive 5 ounces of Hills, dogs get either 7 or 8 ounces.
Each bitch on the property gets 1.5lbs of meat, the dogs get between 1.5lbs and 2lbs depending on how well they do, their weight, the temperature etc.
Each dog is an individual on my property and we feed, train and race them as such, he said.
McDonald never uses vitamins.
Hills Science Diet is the total package, he said. I was put onto it by my long time vet (the late) Alex Hauler when it first came out about 10 to 12 years ago. Alec had done a fair bit of research into the product and found it perfect.
One of the first dogs I used it on was Ashigga and he won the Shepparton Cup on it a few weeks later.
Ive been using it ever since. I reckon I was one of the first to use the product.
It conditions the dogs well and the fat content is a bit higher. But when I get a new dog and it goes onto Hills Science Diet, you can see the change in the appearance of their coat.
In Victoria dogs tend to burn up more fat, so we need a dry product that contains more fat to replace that.
Just before the dogs dinners are fed, one and a half cups of warm water is mixed into the feed.
The dinner is fed to the dogs immediately.
Darren weighs his dogs only once a week, but keeps careful watch on every dog on the property

Google it and you will see why. I did not want to change but when I saw the make up of it I saw it had all the things I was putting into their meals.

Cheers

I cannot remember using anything, not that I didn't, there was citrelka and derwitz pills. To far back now. I remember the wins though!

I will check it out Charlie

Thanks

For pups saplings ...quality red meat with high fat content as well as added pork lard and small amount of quality kibble I am trying black hawk puppy atm fed wet , sardines or pilchards a couple of times a week in the morning ,alternated with chicken necks other mornings, chicken carcases evening meal once a week for a break from the red meat ...fully edible brisket bones in the morning after exercise most days and some dogs like a high qual full fat no sugar yoghurt in the morning a couple of times a week with a small amount of kibble ..also calcium sup maybe twice a week ...hopefully I have most things covered with this diet ...used to be able to get a tounge and gullet pet mince mix ages ago but not anymore ...I rated that for providing some offal content