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Major issues affecting racing in NSW page  << 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 

Peter MacLeod
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 127
Dogs 1 / Races 13

02 Aug 2020 02:02


 (0)
 (0)


No I’m a queenslander that races in nsw, so I do know a bit about nsw racing and I don’t even know why I bothered making a comment about people who waste the breath they inhale


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 18313
Dogs 14498 / Races 1818

02 Aug 2020 04:33


 (1)
 (0)


gillian wilcox wrote:

Peter we need all types of dogs to race to keep the industry going but surely you must agree that 440 to 700 dogs must be paid higher prize money than the short course dogs some people are racing these short dogs 8 and 9 times a month that can not be good for any dog surely.They should bring in a rule no more than 6 starts per month over any distance and pay more for longer dogs and then you would get a good stream of dogs racing on all distances.

100% agree Gillian

But Peter will just think you are an oxygen thief as well


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 18313
Dogs 14498 / Races 1818

02 Aug 2020 04:35


 (3)
 (0)


Peter MacLeod wrote:

No I’m a queenslander that races in nsw, so I do know a bit about nsw racing and I don’t even know why I bothered making a comment about people who waste the breath they inhale

I don't know what your problem is, but you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about something


Tony Digiorgio
(Verified User)
Posts 862
Dogs 25 / Races 0

02 Aug 2020 09:17


 (0)
 (0)


Seems to me that Peter is just taking a stance on a topic similar to how others do when Bruce posts a topic they don't agree with.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2811
Dogs 6 / Races 0

02 Aug 2020 10:34


 (2)
 (0)


I think Peter ?? should control his anger and get his facts straight because I disagree with Sandro on matters and I haven’t even met him.

Everybody has an opinion just like an arse. Sometimes, you have to work out which one you’re using otherwise you can get yourself into shit (verbally speaking). Did you have a bad day or week ? Lose big ? Those previous comments are ‘whacky tabacky’ ones. Way out there; left field shit man. Full moon driven. You stay safe.



Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7581
Dogs 180 / Races 66

02 Aug 2020 12:40


 (4)
 (0)


NSW’s Disturbing Racing Trend Revealed ---> EXTERNAL LINK


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 18313
Dogs 14498 / Races 1818

02 Aug 2020 22:31


 (3)
 (0)


steven martin wrote:

NSW’s Disturbing Racing Trend Revealed ---> EXTERNAL LINK

There are a lot of people out there with the same view



Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 844
Dogs 0 / Races 0

02 Aug 2020 22:58


 (3)
 (0)


G'day Steve, firstly,thanks for putting that link up mate,myself & others saw this trend developing about 5 yrs ago here in NSW, & have expressed concerns re the " Saturation " of racing under 400 mtrs ever since.
Maybe seeing these figure's with their eyes,not just hearing it from others who saw years ago how quickly this was going to manifest,it might,just maybe,make others realise,that this is NOT ,in the best intrest of racing in NSW,in fact,it is detrimental in every facet.

The figure's in you're link,DON'T LIE, VIRTUALLY 70% of races under 400 mtrs !!,think about guys & gal's.
steven martin wrote:

NSW’s Disturbing Racing Trend Revealed ---> EXTERNAL LINK






Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7581
Dogs 180 / Races 66

03 Aug 2020 00:04


 (5)
 (0)


Exactly Sandro.
Your welcome Daryl.

It's a bit like watching Bathurst on a Sunday in October. The V8 Supercars do 161 (1000k's) around Mount Panorama. Why? Because that's what the public want to watch. Not the rice popping 4 cylinders.

The same can be said about greyhound racing over 457m / 520m / 600m & 720m distances. That's what the racing owners, trainers & public enjoy the most.

The only reason I believe that 300m racing is enjoying the same $$$$ as the much-preferred distances named above is that due to the downtown in breeding (2015), TAB needs a product to punt on due to the supply & demand it has created, & all that is left in the barrel is 300m dogs....so basically $$$$ is thrown at the trainer to keep & race these greyhounds at the expense of quality racing. And I have no qualm with that as yes these greyhounds deserve the chance to earn a buck, but quite frankly there's no other alternative atm.

So it's up to our leaders to now turn the tables on breeding to encourage us to breed a better quality greyhound, but as most breeders that have been around for 20 plus years know that can be near impossible as 300m swibs result in 99% of all litters whelped. Gee even my last litter to one of Australia's greatest greyhounds (Just The Best) over a bitch that was a city winner, won mainly from 520m (460m to 550m) in fast times, who is by an outcross-sire & has a litter-brother that won 20 city races & made Group races over 520m / 700m....all the ingredients to produced quality greyhounds has produced mainly these 300m runners, something I wasn't expecting. So I went a totally different avenue for her next litter.

Why is Victoria the GREYHOUND CAPITAL ATM? Simple. They have an abundance of ONE TURN TRACKS which makes the best & fairest racing. NSW & QLD have sh1t CORNER-STARTS..... It's as clear as that, as why would you want to move to a climate where's is either raining or bl00dy cold for the majority of the year (no offence).

Anyway.....I have other ideas but for now, it's back to work.

Cheers, Steve.


Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 844
Dogs 0 / Races 0

03 Aug 2020 04:17


 (1)
 (0)


You are right on the money Steve,we lost 3 fantastic one turn tracks up here , & now are limited as far as options go if you have dogs better suited to those type of tracks,also countless turn turn tracks as well.
steven martin wrote:

Exactly Sandro.
Your welcome Daryl.

It's a bit like watching Bathurst on a Sunday in October. The V8 Supercars do 161 (1000k's) around Mount Panorama. Why? Because that's what the public want to watch. Not the rice popping 4 cylinders.

The same can be said about greyhound racing over 457m / 520m / 600m & 720m distances. That's what the racing owners, trainers & public enjoy the most.

The only reason I believe that 300m racing is enjoying the same $$$$ as the much-preferred distances named above is that due to the downtown in breeding (2015), TAB needs a product to punt on due to the supply & demand it has created, & all that is left in the barrel is 300m dogs....so basically $$$$ is thrown at the trainer to keep & race these greyhounds at the expense of quality racing. And I have no qualm with that as yes these greyhounds deserve the chance to earn a buck, but quite frankly there's no other alternative atm.

So it's up to our leaders to now turn the tables on breeding to encourage us to breed a better quality greyhound, but as most breeders that have been around for 20 plus years know that can be near impossible as 300m swibs result in 99% of all litters whelped. Gee even my last litter to one of Australia's greatest greyhounds (Just The Best) over a bitch that was a city winner, won mainly from 520m (460m to 550m) in fast times, who is by an outcross-sire & has a litter-brother that won 20 city races & made Group races over 520m / 700m....all the ingredients to produced quality greyhounds has produced mainly these 300m runners, something I wasn't expecting. So I went a totally different avenue for her next litter.

Why is Victoria the GREYHOUND CAPITAL ATM? Simple. They have an abundance of ONE TURN TRACKS which makes the best & fairest racing. NSW & QLD have sh1t CORNER-STARTS..... It's as clear as that, as why would you want to move to a climate where's is either raining or bl00dy cold for the majority of the year (no offence).

Anyway.....I have other ideas but for now, it's back to work.

Cheers, Steve.





Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2811
Dogs 6 / Races 0

03 Aug 2020 07:19


 (0)
 (0)


Spot on guys. I’ll go as far as suggesting that the authorities don’t care, perhaps politically driven or our CEO and maybe the Board, have not thought it through properly or carefully. Yet, he has his supporters. However, one can state an argument for short course racing. Maybe we can express our views in the Review?



Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7581
Dogs 180 / Races 66

03 Aug 2020 07:47


 (7)
 (0)


Mark Donohue wrote:

Spot on guys. I’ll go as far as suggesting that the authorities don’t care


Maybe they don't care, Mark, because they have an agreement with TAB etc to fulfil race dates so atm, they'll do whatever it takes & 300m races are the last drop.

But at least with ONE-TURN-TRACKS, these short-courses can race with a fairer start & can even build on their stamina.....something you can't do with CORNER-STARTS because it's smash-up-derby where dogs LOSE CONFIDENCE which in turn creates bad habits.

If NSW & QLD for that matter want to go forward like VIC, build ONE-CORNER-TRACKS.

You've gotta spend money to make money.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2811
Dogs 6 / Races 0

03 Aug 2020 08:43


 (3)
 (0)


One turn grass track Wauchope will be back for another couple of non-TAB meetings, then later in the year for TAB meetings, but we have the best and safest grass track in Cessnock (Hunter Region NSW) sitting idle and the authorities won't touch it. Cessnock used to race over 400m, 457m, 617m and was called the Harold Park of the Hunter, but I would go further and write that Cessnock was a better track than HP. Wauchope race over 384m and 457m.


Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 844
Dogs 0 / Races 0

03 Aug 2020 10:30


 (2)
 (0)


You are right Mark,two of those tracks are part of the three that we lost,the other was Singleton,another fantastic one turn track that was canned...but maybe we still have plenty of " one turn speed tracks ",..as long as they are under 350 mtrs that is,i can come up with at least a dozen off the top of my head..maybe they are a " modern day " version ??,...Nup.
Mark Donohue wrote:

One turn grass track Wauchope will be back for another couple of non-TAB meetings, then later in the year for TAB meetings, but we have the best and safest grass track in Cessnock (Hunter Region NSW) sitting idle and the authorities won't touch it. Cessnock used to race over 400m, 457m, 617m and was called the Harold Park of the Hunter, but I would go further and write that Cessnock was a better track than HP. Wauchope race over 384m and 457m.





Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1918
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Aug 2020 01:48


 (3)
 (0)


There’s a great deal to talk about here but let’s say what’s good for NSW and for the industry as a whole is the critical issue. However, we are getting some things out of order.

First, races are set up according to nominations coming through from trainers.

Second, trainers are primarily influenced by two things; what suits their dog and how much money is on offer.

Or the reverse order if you like.

Now, for donkeys years I have been writing about poor track designs and the extra attention given to short course racing – the latest in a June 5 article in ARG, which was expanded by a Recorder article (in more depth) on June 18. Clearly, that has brought many commentators out into the open here, most agreeing to one degree or another that longer is better than shorter.

Historically, the last few decades have seen clear delineations (or used to):

• Slower or weaker dogs ran at non-Tab Country tracks, more often over short trips and earning only kibble money.
• Well performed and stronger dogs ran at TAB tracks, pulling in reasonable cash. Short races were in the minority.
• Top dogs ran at Wenty (or previously HP) for good money. There was a time when a trainer would crawl over broken glass just to get a draw in town. Short races never existed there.

Today’s pie is sliced up in different ways due to two primary factors – a declining dog population and a desperate plunge by administrations which were trying to maximise betting income by filling any old hole in the TAB program with any old standard of dog.

Yes, welfare and euthanasia issues were important, but they were and are different matters and unrelated to the reasons underlying basic racing decisions by both clubs and state administrations. They should be addressed separately as should track designs, breeding, marketing and so on.

What is not at issue is that the smaller dog population and a consistent or rising number of races have led to lower quality pups entering the racing scene. Under the old system they would have been relegated to “Country”. Today, they are in the overall mix despite attempts to dream up new Grading classifications. Hence a decline in average field quality as in speed and strength. That has emerged on top of the obvious overall shortage.

Since the newcomers can’t run very far it is inevitable that the trend to shorter races would rear its head and then gather strength. Even the better dogs have been able to pick up extra money by racing more often. That’s what’s coming out in the nominations.

This is not rocket science. Quick money is in charge. Crappy racing is now all the go.

Why? Because administrators have let it happen – even encouraged it (see Neds 280s).

To fix this worsening situation it is plain that those same administrators must use the only tool they know about – money. Pay less for the shorts and more for the longs – and make the changes big ones. It won’t take long for the penny to drop.

* * *

PS: It does vary but typically Victoria has 24 weekly meetings of which 2 are on straight tracks, 7 are on circles (including Geelong which has both types and Cranbourne which is dominantly a 311m exercise), and 15 on one-turns (where many races start on bends over the 400s and over 520m-545m and beyond). The circle number would normally be higher but Traralgon is now out of action and will return as a one-turn.

PS2: The current NSW review is about the new Act and GWIC. The racing program and cash are organised by GRNSW (no doubt with lots of help from GBOTA).

PS3: Singleton was never a one-turn track. It main trip started on bend and the popular 384m ran straight into the top turn. It needed help but it boasted a lively mob of people yet it was dumped by NCA in favour of more Newcastle dates. That cost many folk in the Northwest of the state a ready access to TAB racing. Wyong disappeared at the same time. GRA (as it was then) just looked on and wrote down the answer.



Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 844
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Aug 2020 23:48


 (1)
 (0)


Ok Bruce,i give you that one on PS 3,technically it wasn't a traditional one turn track,but because of it design,it suited one turn track dogs because of it's long straights & sweeping turns imo.
Bruce Teague wrote:

There’s a great deal to talk about here but let’s say what’s good for NSW and for the industry as a whole is the critical issue. However, we are getting some things out of order.

First, races are set up according to nominations coming through from trainers.

Second, trainers are primarily influenced by two things; what suits their dog and how much money is on offer.

Or the reverse order if you like.

Now, for donkeys years I have been writing about poor track designs and the extra attention given to short course racing – the latest in a June 5 article in ARG, which was expanded by a Recorder article (in more depth) on June 18. Clearly, that has brought many commentators out into the open here, most agreeing to one degree or another that longer is better than shorter.

Historically, the last few decades have seen clear delineations (or used to):

• Slower or weaker dogs ran at non-Tab Country tracks, more often over short trips and earning only kibble money.
• Well performed and stronger dogs ran at TAB tracks, pulling in reasonable cash. Short races were in the minority.
• Top dogs ran at Wenty (or previously HP) for good money. There was a time when a trainer would crawl over broken glass just to get a draw in town. Short races never existed there.

Today’s pie is sliced up in different ways due to two primary factors – a declining dog population and a desperate plunge by administrations which were trying to maximise betting income by filling any old hole in the TAB program with any old standard of dog.

Yes, welfare and euthanasia issues were important, but they were and are different matters and unrelated to the reasons underlying basic racing decisions by both clubs and state administrations. They should be addressed separately as should track designs, breeding, marketing and so on.

What is not at issue is that the smaller dog population and a consistent or rising number of races have led to lower quality pups entering the racing scene. Under the old system they would have been relegated to “Country”. Today, they are in the overall mix despite attempts to dream up new Grading classifications. Hence a decline in average field quality as in speed and strength. That has emerged on top of the obvious overall shortage.

Since the newcomers can’t run very far it is inevitable that the trend to shorter races would rear its head and then gather strength. Even the better dogs have been able to pick up extra money by racing more often. That’s what’s coming out in the nominations.

This is not rocket science. Quick money is in charge. Crappy racing is now all the go.

Why? Because administrators have let it happen – even encouraged it (see Neds 280s).

To fix this worsening situation it is plain that those same administrators must use the only tool they know about – money. Pay less for the shorts and more for the longs – and make the changes big ones. It won’t take long for the penny to drop.

* * *

PS: It does vary but typically Victoria has 24 weekly meetings of which 2 are on straight tracks, 7 are on circles (including Geelong which has both types and Cranbourne which is dominantly a 311m exercise), and 15 on one-turns (where many races start on bends over the 400s and over 520m-545m and beyond). The circle number would normally be higher but Traralgon is now out of action and will return as a one-turn.

PS2: The current NSW review is about the new Act and GWIC. The racing program and cash are organised by GRNSW (no doubt with lots of help from GBOTA).

PS3: Singleton was never a one-turn track. It main trip started on bend and the popular 384m ran straight into the top turn. It needed help but it boasted a lively mob of people yet it was dumped by NCA in favour of more Newcastle dates. That cost many folk in the Northwest of the state a ready access to TAB racing. Wyong disappeared at the same time. GRA (as it was then) just looked on and wrote down the answer.





Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2811
Dogs 6 / Races 0

05 Aug 2020 04:13


 (4)
 (0)


Trainers are not necessarily ‘placing’ their dogs properly all of the time because programming of races isn’t allowing them to do so. Then, they are left in the lap of the flow of nominations.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1918
Dogs 0 / Races 0

06 Aug 2020 00:30


 (0)
 (0)


Digressing a fraction, it has been instructive to study racing at Taree.

It looks pretty as a picture and obviously reflects a lot of work put into it. However, it is grass and with that comes good and bad.

I have no knowledge of the grass type but if it is similar to Cessnock it will mostly run OK but still be subject to nasty stalks, mini-holes and wear and tear. But the big one is that the gradients are peculiar, leading to erratic courses taken by some dogs. That's hard to fix on a grass track but easy to correct on a loam surface.

Sectional data is also light on.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2811
Dogs 6 / Races 0

06 Aug 2020 01:38


 (2)
 (0)


You should've stopped one comment before your last one. The surface at Taree is well maintained and some work has been done to the bends and it is much safer to race dogs.

Erratic racing / tracking of some dogs is not often the fault of the surface, but as you know being a keyboard trainer, there are other factors you have to include in explaining why your dog ran the way it did.

I told you before, you often `are not seeing or feeling it' and some of your comments clearly demonstrate it. I'll grant you this, it is a `picture' and the Taree Club has done a great job in presenting a great surface to race dogs on. The design of the track doesn't suit all dogs just like Kempsey and Wauchope as examples on the MNC. Some trainers won't race their dogs on some tracks.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2811
Dogs 6 / Races 0

06 Aug 2020 01:43


 (1)
 (0)


It won't let me copy an article out of Goulburn re: looking for a Centre of Excellence.

EXTERNAL LINK

posts 996page  << 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50