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GRV - draft code of Practise.page  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 

Rob Ingram
Australia
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Posts 287
Dogs 13 / Races 0

17 Jun 2017 20:34


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Nicholas great work. Now everyone needs to lobby both sides of Parliament. Don't kid yourself thinking this is only Vic because when one state implements something the other states are sheep and follow.

Lobby hard and long, send an email a week, everytime you go to town visit your local members office asking for a meeting, get a group together and attend any public outings you member is having.

But remember be loud and proud, but don't be violent and watch your language as it. An easily be turned against you.


Charles W Mizzi
Australia
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Posts 684
Dogs 1 / Races 1

18 Jun 2017 03:03


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Nicholas Arena wrote:

I wrote to Tim McCurdy Liberal Opposition Racing Minister and Tim Bull the National Opposition Racing Minister in Victoria. I rec'd a reply in hours from Tim Bull. Tim stated he was meeting with the 13 clubs over the coming weeks to discuss and hear their concerns with the draft code.
I would encourage as many of you as possible to email to Tim your views and feelings , without threats and angst- write a factual view of the Industry and your concerns with the code from your own prospective. Please ensure you detail exactly what role you play in the Industry - Trainer - Breeder - Owner etc and your reliance on the Industry for an income or otherwise.
The Andrews government is on the nose in Victoria and are more likely to play populist politics then be brave enough to defend the Industry - hence I would suggest they will support the Minority groups/RSPCA's view of the Industry - the fact the Department wrote such a 'nonsense" paper and the participants invited to contribute totally ignored would indicate the government and GRV have had a hand in designing the framework of the code.Accordingly I have grave doubts as to whether the ALP would respond to Industry concerns,they will in my opinion play to the inner city Latte set to maximise votes.

The minister's email addresses are as follows.

Tim McCurdy email is '[email protected]'
Tim Bull's email is '[email protected]'

Nicholas, great post. I have been in communication with Tim Bull since the beginning of the year when I had a meeting with him. He is a genuine man and a racing man and has been very supportive. One thing, I would encourage people to allay their concerns to their local club and as Bendigo are doing supporting participants in writing there submissions. I hope that the other 12 clubs do the same as this will show unity.

Greyhound folk have generally been labor voters and as the Orange bi election demonstrated last year if you do not listen to your supporters you will lose. The Andrews government did not win by much and there are many other issues that dog them, lets dog them well and truly at the next election Nov 2018

RSPCA has more than a foot in the door at GRV with the manager of welfare being a previous employee. Lets also see the result of the parliamentary inquiry to be handed down in August.

Cheers



Michael Barry
Australia
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Posts 7405
Dogs 26 / Races 9

18 Jun 2017 04:32


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today after reading quickly through the proposed new code ,

i could say we would be quite happy with around 80/85% of it ,

we are breeders and rearers , and i guess spellers for when our pups come back from breakers, prior to pretraining ,,

points that are over done is the paperwork , side of things , we do enough of that now ,
socializing etc , is way over done , and a lot of what they are trying to say is done already by most good breeders ,

vet approved meals is just simply bull sh1t ,

so all in all with a bit of fine tuning we would be pretty happy with it , change had to come , and one just cant go around opposing every thing that is new ,

so with some PROPER consultation with participants im sure we can get a workable code of practice in place


Ian Bradshaw
Australia
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Posts 251
Dogs 6 / Races 0

18 Jun 2017 04:55


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1.1.1 Food
All greyhounds must be fed at least once daily.
Fair dinkum ! Is this draft code for real ? If it was, they would have included:
All greyhounds must have at least one poop daily.

I tried to approach this draft code with an open mind, but I quickly came to the conclusion that most of it is puerile, and at the same time, demeaning to participants in the greyhound industry.
There are estimated to be 4.2 million pet dogs in Australia, obviously, common sense will prevail, and they will not be subject to anything vaguely similar, to the long list of welfare requirements, in this draft code for greyhounds.

Hobby establishment: means a property that keeps no more than 2 greyhounds over the age of 16 weeks.
Professional establishment: means a property that keeps more than 2 racing greyhounds.
Bye bye hobby trainer, unless you happen to have only two greyhounds over the age of 16 weeks on your property.

All transport vehicles or trailers used to transport greyhounds must;
be maintained at a temperature of between 10C and 32C at all times;

Would the guidelines put out by Agriculture Victoria be more practical ?

Transport of animals should be planned so that climatic extremes likely to compromise the animals' welfare are avoided. If transport is absolutely necessary, the journey plan should minimise the effects of hot weather on the animals; pre-determine your route, mark out a map with places of shade and perhaps water availability (such as rest stops). Animals should only be transported during the cooler hours of the day. If it is necessary to stop, park the vehicle in the shade and at right angles to the wind direction to improve wind flow between animals during hot weather. Duration of stops should be kept to a minimum to avoid the build-up of heat while the vehicle is stationary.

Most of those trucks carrying sheep and cattle are headed for the abattoirs, and nobody even blinks, now if it was greyhounds instead ??? I, for one, would not blink.

6.2.1 Health checks and treatment plans
All greyhounds, regardless of breeding status, must have a general health check by a veterinary practitioner at least annually, or more frequently as directed by a veterinary practitioner.

Why? Why not monthly, weekly, every two years??? Or just when obviously required?

6.4.1 Perimeter property fencing
Perimeter fencing must be constructed around the housing and exercise areas at the establishment.
Perimeter fences must provide a second barrier for escape from the establishment but must also provide protection from the entry of unwanted people or animals.
There must be a minimum of two barriers between greyhound and escape.

I would have thought farms would have a higher priority for this. Driving around a corner on a country road on a dark night, I would rather be confronted with a runaway greyhound in the middle of the road, than a stray horse or cow.

There is some merit in the draft code.improving the living quarters for greyhounds.better keeping of relevant information at greyhound establishments..there would an opportunity for GRV to put together computer programs so that information can be stored online.
I must go now and start preparing my submission.




Dan Hollywood
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4166
Dogs 3 / Races 3

18 Jun 2017 09:12


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Recent post on Face Book

This submission was sent in by a #ProudProRacer, please take the time to read it, at very least it'll prompt you into writing your own! Our submission will be on behalf of our paid members, and will entail some of the following as well; 👇
👉 I am a greyhound breeder/rearer and at present have 16 adult greyhounds and 10 puppies (4 x 16 weeks old, 6 x 12 weeks).
I do not look after other peoples dogs - just my own.
Under the old code I am considered a hobby trainer.
One of my brood bitches has been mated and is due to have her litter in 4 weeks.
These dogs stay with me until they go to trainers around the 16 month-old mark.
I have 13 greyhounds racing (with trainers) and, when they retire will be coming back to my property for retirement
I have made comments below on how this proposed code would disaffect me.
3. STAFFING
3.1 STAFF RATIO
According to this proposed code presently I am under the 25 limit of greyhound ratio so I can be the person who must be on the property 24/7, but once my numbers go over 25 I must employ staff, one during business hours and have one on retainer for non business hours that lives within 30 minutes travel time.
With myself as the static one person on premises I can no longer work away from where the greyhounds are kept and earn an income.
The alternative is to pay for someone else to look after my dogs. I would have to employ two people if my numbers go over 25.
At present my greyhound participant is as a hobby and most of the time I do not turn a profit.
The estimated cost to raise a greyhound until he/she starts racing is $10,000. Given that I do NOT train my greyhounds, breakeven on any pup I own is $20,000 that is on the basis of a 50/50 prizemoney spilt I have with all my trainers.
As a hobby sport it is comparable to someone who plays sports on weekends and pays a registration fee, funds equipment costs, match fees etc to participate but gets no income in return. We do because we love it.
The proposed code would mean I could not work and earn an income to pay my mortgage, day-to-day bills as well as supplies for my greyhounds.
I would be forced onto unemployment benefits but you have to be looking for work, which I cannot do under these new regulations, as I must be on the premises 24/7.
With no income how am I supposed to pay for the additional staff required if I had to leave premises for any reason? - (attend a vet, shop, see a doctor/dentist etc).
There would be no days off, no holidays, no attending family functions at Christmas, birthdays or weddings etc.
This proposed regulation is not functional or financially possible.
It will close greyhound racing it certainly seems like that is its intent?
Immediately departing would be small time hobby operators survival will be possible for those who are financially well-heeled enough to become a large operator.
Who is going to pay for me to stay on the premises 24/7 and employ staff?
Will there be a wage paid by the Government body intent on implementing these requirements?
It is akin to slave labour to force people to work 24/7 with no pay.
I would have to be paid three, eight hour shifts if the government wants me to comply.
Vets and even the RSPCA do not have staff on premises 24/7. It is just not sensible, affordable or workable. It is certainly not based on practical principles.

3.2 PROPRIETOR
The suggestion of having a written health management plan for every single greyhound annually is quite bizarre.
The amount of vet intervention in this new code is illogical and unaffordable. Guidelines need to be set out when you need to see a vet but to make it compulsory goes beyond the pale.
3.3 OPERATIONS MANAGER
The proposed guidelines assert that an operations manager must have qualifications and competency in greyhound husbandry.
Who is qualified to deem if someone is competent? A vet?
It is doubtful that more than a handful of vets in this country would even qualify for such a ridiculous and illogical demand.
3.4 GREYHOUND ATTENDANTS
As stated in 3.3 there is no qualification or assessment process available aside from a veterinary surgeon.
Just what is going on here?: "removal of dead greyhound from housing area" is listed a priority before cleaning of housing area as though it is a regular and daily experience.
That is shameful.
Its grossly negative language and I have never uncovered a dead dog in a yard or in a kennel at my property.
If this did occur it would be an extraordinary event and would warrant senior personnel to investigate probable cause.
This surely should come under the heading of "when immediate action must be taken" and not under daily duties.
3.5 VEHICLE DRIVER
It is not always possible to stop every two hours to attend to travelling greyhounds, it really depends on finding appropriate sites to do so.
Its not necessary to stop every two hours and this can actually unsettle dogs rather than have them sleep and relax for longer.
Stopping can excite the dogs and expel more energy and heighten the prospect weight loss and hydration issues. This needs to be assessed by the transporter on a needs basis.
3.6 VETERNARY PRACTITIONER
Having a written agreement with one or more vets is unnecessary and an outrage.
We see three to four vets in an ad hoc way and have an excellent relationship with them all.
There is no need for a formal document.
There are a very limited number of vets who have the expertise to assess and look after greyhounds, they do not necessarily work around the corner.
To have the vet come out to my property annually and work out a health management plan is excessive and unaffordable. This will gouge participants and levy a virtual tax.
Greyhounds get their annual booster needles and are assessed by a vet at that time. This should be enough of an annual check up.
All other canines are treated on an annual check up basis or by need, so why is a greyhound being singled out here?

3.7 MANDATORY TRAINING AND EDUCATION
There is no formal training or educational process in place for greyhound racing at this time. There is NO Registered Training Organization qualified to assess competency within the industry.
4. ESTABLISHMENT OPERATION
4.1 HEALTH MANAGEMENT PLAN
I have looked at the Standard Operating Procedures at EXTERNAL LINK and this is overkill for small hobby facilities.
I understand for a business these measures may be required so staff are aware of procedures but as a sole operator it is excessive.
If participants have been deemed competent to have a licence from the regulatory body, surely it is up to regulator to determine adequate measures regarding care for their greyhounds.
Vets continue to get rich as we step through this proposal!
Guidelines could be set by greyhound authorities to participants and racing stewards can assess compliance, rather than a vet health management plan.
It does not take a vet to see/inspect/view or understand what is inappropriate care of a greyhound.
A vet would know litter of what I do as a professional carer of greyhounds.
And a vet must decide on a diet for my greyhounds? You have got to be kidding!
Most vets are not aware of industry requirements for greyhounds and there are too few greyhound-experienced vets about to assess all properties and they would be unlikely to travel long distances.
I am reliably informed veterinary practices are having trouble staffing surgeries with new vets so how is demand for this ridiculous impost going to be supported?

4.3 GREYHOUND TRANSPORT VEHICLE
Not all greyhound participants have specialised vehicles to transport greyhounds and the transport of a single greyhound can be done in a family car.
A cognisant participant can assess if greyhounds need to be separated or can be placed with others in the same space.
Regulation demanding greyhounds must be separated is just an outrage.
If this regulation is enacted. a cost to participants (the purchase of a new vehicle or to have an existing vehicle modified) may prove to be unaffordable.
Its an insult that "a greyhound MUST NOT be transported in the boot of a sedan" that emphasis suggests that it is a common practice. Maybe our road rules should be amended so that a child cannot be transported in the boot of a sedan" its just as ridiculous.
The paragraph stating "greyhounds in transport cages must be removed from cage every two hours...to exercise and toilet" is not always possible. In the event of dogs being flown, interstate for example, it is not possible to do so. This should be left up to the discretion of the transporter and not be legislated that this must occur every two hours.
This edict would immediately strop interstate air transport of greyhounds and feature races across the country would be debased.
Greyhound exports to New Zealand you get it!
4.4 VISITOR FACILITIES
It is neigh laughable to expect visitors who have pets to use foot baths or put boot covers on the shoes to attend my home.
If visitors have pets they will more likely have animal hair on their clothing could possibly hold contagions. Unless you want me to ask visitors to strip down or wear an all-in-one hazard suit this measure will do nothing.
Most participants are hobby trainers with facilities in their homes and this is another over the top and impractical measure.
4.5 SECURITY
It would be an added cost for me to put up secondary fencing around my whole property which is 18.5 acres.
My property boundary is estimated to be 1.6km and the erection of secondary fencing in excess of $64,000 for the cheaper 2.5mm wire or $96,000 for the recommended 3.15mm as stated in 6.6.4 of the proposed code. It is unaffordable and unnecessary.
5. RECORDS
5.1 ESTABLISHMENT RECORDS
"Copies of all Standard operating procedures", "emergency management", "health management plan", contracts with "feed suppliers etc", and a log book for my car are relevant for professional participant but overkill for a hobbyist.
The daily procedural requirements for every canine, I expect, would drive most people away from continuing being involved in greyhound racing.
My operating procedures are whatever I plan to do that day, emergency management I handle myself and decide if a vet is needed, and I don't have contracts with Woolworths, meat suppliers or pet stores where I get my supplies.
I am a small operator and they would find this amusing.
Its not a real world thing to do.
5.2.1 GREYHOUND RECORD FILES
The record keeping proposed is vastly in excess of what teachers are required to maintain for our children. Does that make any sense at all?
The time taken to record every detail and take photos is time away from spending with your dogs.
I can understand if you are looking after other peoples dogs but when you do your own its unnecessary.
5.2.2 INDIVIDUAL GREYHOUND IDENTIFICATION
The identification card on the pen of each greyhound offers serious integrity issues with racing greyhounds making it easier for people to identify racing dogs and do them harm. That is why greyhounds have a "kennel" name and a "racing" name so it is harder to identify an individual.
6 HUSBANDRY - MANAGEMENT OF GREYHOUNDS
6.1.1 FOOD
It is impractical to have food listed in the health management plan and signed off by a vet, as food can be changed daily depending on weight, health or weather.
Just how and when do I get a vet to come to my residence (I cannot leave by means of the proposed 24/7 staffing requirements) when the vet must attend his/her own practice from 9am to (usually) 6pm each day.
Food requirements should at the discretion of the operations manager and not a vet, especially one who has no knowledge or requirements of racing greyhounds.
If greyhound participants have been "deemed competent" to participate and are licensed with a regulatory body as a trainer, breeder, rearer or educator this qualification should mean they are capable of directing feeding requirement to all ages of greyhounds.
6.2 HEALTH CARE
6.2.3 HEALTH CHECKS AND TREATMENT PLANS
If greyhounds are immunised every 12 months a health check are be automatically done at this time.
Its actually impossible to have every breeding female checked four weeks before mating
The menstrual cycle of a canine is 21 days and females are usually mated at day 14.
The females to not cycle regularly and certainly not by calendar. How can I have a vet check done four weeks prior to a service period when I do not know when that will be!
Checking again eight weeks after whelping is unnecessary - all my females are very closely monitored and issues (mastitis for example) is dealt with immediately. I do not need a vet to tell me my broodbitch is healthy or not.
Most matings are now done via Artificial Insemination which is performed by a vet and bitches are assessed at that time for any health issues.
6.2.5 MUZZLING
Restricting the use of muzzles is hypocritical as the government has made it law that a greyhound CANNOT go out in public without one on. While in public they must have one on AT ALL TIMES.
States muzzling should be a maximum of 30 minutes, therefore I can longer walk my dog in public for more than that saturatory period.
Some racing greyhounds (when kennelled) can chew bedding and trainers muzzle at that time to stop the dog ingesting potential life-threatening material.
You want to stop that? Is that not a very negative animal welfare matter?
6.3 BREEDING
6.3.3 BREEDING FEMALES
The proposed "4 week prior to subsequent seasons" vet check is unworkable as you don't know to the day when a female will come into season.
You have to wait until you see the first signs that she is "on" (a drop of blood) which is too late for a pre four-week vet check.
The restriction of good and successful brood bitches is a restraint of trade. I agree with seeking permission after three litters to determine success rate, but if a broody is a successful producer permission should be able to be obtained beyond 5 litters (health permitting).
The restriction to five litters is unwarranted. Very few bitches have five litters and only the very, very best producers get to that point.
I therefore suggest, this proposal seeks to cull the very best and not eliminate the lower end producer.
Well respected and proven successful breeders know what is best for their females and should be given Gold status on breeding decisions.
6.3.6 WHELPING
Restricting Oxytocin to be only administered by a vet could have serious animal welfare issues.
Oxytocin after birth helps to "CLEAN OUT" the uterus of any retained placentas or any dead puppies which, if left to "mother nature", initiate septicaemia and could kill females within hours.
As long as a vet has prescribed the Oxytocin (to a registered whelper) and who has shown competence in administration.
6.3.8 LACTATING GREYHOUNDS
Not necessary to have a veterinary surgeon sign off on exercise changes for mothers. This should be up to the discretion of the breeder.
All measures regarding veterinary attention at the drop of a hat is overkill and massively expensive. Licensed breeders should be competent to make a call on requirements of brood bitches and puppies in their care and deem if a vet is required not a governmental code.
6.3.9 REARING
More overkill measures by people who have no on the ground experience with greyhounds.
Mothers get cranky with their kids at different ages. I have had to separate at four weeks and others could stay with puppies until six months.
This should not be legislated and mandatory but up to circumstance and the breeder/rearers discretion.
It is not advisable and certainly dangerous to MOVE puppies around before their immunisations are complete - around 16 weeks.
It is ill advised to "walk in new environments and introduce to other people" before this time. It just plain DUMB.
Isolating puppies and locking them in racing kennels away from their litter mates at this early stage is extreme and very stressful for this age group. Should be done no earlier than six months of age.
Separating puppies and restricting numbers should be up to the discretion of the rearer. This should be determined by the temperament of puppies and separate when necessary.
It has been stated that dogs are a pack animal and socialise better in groups. Once aggressions or bullying behaviours are observed then separation should be undertaken.
Puppies at 16 weeks are too young to be shown a circular track or racetrack environments. They are susceptible to disease if moved and such training at this stage is way too young.
Race kennel exposure could be started at about six months of age but is not necessary until at least 10 months if they have been handled every day.
6.3.10 EDUCATION AND PRE-TRAINING
The statement that pre-training dogs should be exposed to race track environments twice a week prior to breaking in is scary and dangerous.
Any racetrack exposure required for a pup is at breaking in stage or, maybe a week prior, when a visit to a trial track (on a lead and NOT run around) will familiarise the dog with a new environment.
It makes no sense to put a dog on a trial track before it is broken in ... this will only end up badly.
This topic has lots of mandatory suggestions that should be up to a trainer/rearer.
This MUST DO or ONE SIZE FOR ALL approach it naive and dangerous. It does not allow for the individual requirements of greyhounds.
6.3.11 TRAINING AND RACING
Once again the language of MUST DO dominates and no room for trainers/rearers who have more knowledge of greyhounds in their care to determine training routines.
Dictating that you MUST DO this and MUST DO that is unworkable and demeaning to participants to have the ability to decide what is best for their greyhounds
The language that everything done to a greyhound must be causing them STRESS and must be monitored is overstated and appears deliberately placed in this new proposal to debase greyhound racing.
Its better to say "this will make a greyhound happy" than state "this will cause stress".
The language in this new code has definitely chosen the latter and underlines the "TONE" throughout the document.
"Monitor at least five times a day for signs of stress and the development of behavioural stereotypes" and not check five times a day to see they are happy and relaxed.
6.3.12 PREPARING A GREYHOUND FOR RETIREMENT OR REHOMING
Assumes all greyhounds are underweight and must be increase. Another preconceived assumption.
The suggested requirement of walking for 20 minutes in public could be a bio hazard issue if greyhound is then brought back onto premises where puppies are present and not fully immunised.
What happened to foot baths and booties to avoid contaminations? The left hand does not know what the right is doing in this document.
Parvo-Virus is prevalent in the house pet population which are not always immunised (as compared to the greyhound population) and could come in contact with publicly walked greyhound which is then taken back to kennels.
6.4 EXERCISE, TRAINING AND ENRICHMENT
It is stated that puppies under 16 weeks should be exposed to new environments or new people. This could be dangerous as they are not fully immunised at this time.
More uneducated dribble.
Such measures should not be done until after they have had their second immunisation which is after 16 weeks.
Dictating how many times a week dogs MUST be walked on a lead, walked by their collar, exercise in a large yard, play chasing games etc once again overrides decisions which should be that of the rearer/trainer.
Clearly, these measures as stated appear age inappropriate and time consuming.
Its well and good if you have one puppy or one litter but unworkable if you have several.
The Word MUST should be changed to RECOMMENDED.
6.5 SOCIALISATION AND HANDLING
The suggestion that puppies up to eight weeks MUST not be removed from mother is key to the mother being happy to stay with her pups. Some mothers refuse to be with puppies after four weeks. This should be a suggestion not a MUST.
If circumstances do not suit the MUST comply rule, a vet may have no insight to allow an exemption.
Just how will a single observation assure a good outcome?
I cannot ring a vet every time I need to move pups or their mum.
Just how will vets cope with the menial tasks asserted.
I expect most will refuse service for stupid, inane and nonsensical matters. Id be wasting their out of work hours time.
6.6.1 DISINFECTION AND HYGIENE
"Uneaten food MUST be placed in a waste disposal device", does feeding the excess to my chooks qualify?
And you really think Id leave rotting food lay about? Pitiful!
The weekly washing of coats and blankets is not practical or even possible without town water (we live on tank water).
I dont expect city people to understand how precious water is but washing all blankets and all coats weekly is not an option and unless dirty.
The need to sterilise everything in sight on a weekly basis is over the top.
Dogs dig in the dirt and eat buried bones, that is part of their natural behaviour and assists their immune system. If they live in an over sterilized environment this could lead to an underdeveloped immune system.
It is stated that the bedding area must be completely dry (following washing/hosing) prior to the return of greyhounds. Thats entirely possible in summer, but impossible in winter.
6.6.4 PERIMETER PROPERTY FENCING
The MUST code of using 3.15mm (high security heavy duty wire suitable for a prison compound) to a uniform 50mm is estimated to cost over $60 per meter, the only other wire available is a 2.5mm which is estimated to cost over $40 per meter installed as quoted by a local fencer.
My property boundary is estimated to be 1.6km so to put up secondary fencing for me out cost in excess of $64,000 for the cheaper 2.5mm wire or $96,000 for the recommended 3.15mm as stated in the new proposal.
6.6.5 CONSTRUCTION OF HOUSING PENS AND YARDS
By stating fencing "should not exceed a wire mesh hole size of 75mm x 50mm" does this mean if you already have fencing that does not comply that you will be made to replace it?
6.6.7 MINIMUM HOUSING REQUIREMENTS
To minimise puppies to four at 16 weeks of age is too young and can cause unnecessary stress.
Dogs are pack animals and do better the longer you can keep a litter together. This will depend on their temperament and yard size and should be assessed by the rearer.
Good temperament pups may not need separation until six months of age.
6.6.8 TOILETING YARDS
I have individual empty yards for my kennel dogs and consist of eight in-a-row.
It is unnecessary to restrict emptying any more than four dogs at a time if in individual yards. It is acceptable if together in one yard.
8. HOBBY ESTABLISHMENTS
The term HOBBY is not defined by the number of dogs you have but whether they are the sole source of income.
By requiring me remain on my premises 24/7 this new code will make my greyhounds my only source of income and therefore all my expenses will need to be tax deductable.
If I have more expenses (which it true for most hobby trainers) I will pay no tax but also have no means of earning an income.
I would have to give up my hobby and could no longer afford to keep my greyhounds even the retirees as the winnings pay for their keep.


Mark Staines
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4499
Dogs 70 / Races 14

18 Jun 2017 09:28


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I have never read so much CRAP, why don't the gutless wonders just say we no longer support Greyhound Racing ???


Hayden Gilders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 993
Dogs 29 / Races 0

18 Jun 2017 10:27


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i think the poster may have misunderstood some of the preposals icluding staffing requirements and empty out yard issues.



Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2231
Dogs 11 / Races 9

18 Jun 2017 17:24


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Can see a storm brewing.
Today's The Australian.

EXTERNAL LINK
Rich.
Or text as follows. (PS... Well done by the Dailly's and Bobby Douglas from Bendigo)

Greyhound racing could cease to exist in Victoria within a decade if the state government adopts a slew of proposed reforms, in a move that echoes last years failed bid by Mike Baird to shut down the sport in NSW.

The draft code of practice was released to greyhound industry participants last week by the Victorian government. It recommends strict new guidelines in relation to greyhound care, including around-the-clock staffing arrangements, mandated sizes of pens, stipulations dictating how many minutes a day each dog must be handled and walked, frequency of toilet breaks and positive reinforcement and enrichment through the provision of toys.

Leading trainers have warned that the proposed revamp could kill the industry, as to enforce the measures would require a significant increase in staff a price very few trainers can afford to pay.

George Dailly, who trained the nations first $1 million prizemoney earner Fernando Bale, runs Victorias leading kennel with his brother Tom and sister-in-law Andrea. He predicts a grim future for the industry nationwide if the draft is enforced.

Its just impractical what they want you to do, he said. Its going to cost across the board. Everybodys going to suffer.

In life, hurdles are put in front of you and youve just got to adapt, go with the flow and try to get along.

I dont think this is one of those situations. If this goes ahead in its current form, it will literally bring this industry to a halt.

An attempt to shut the NSW greyhound industry last year sparked a political and community revolt that was a forerunner to the resignation from politics of premier Mr Baird, and led to deputy premier Troy Grant losing the leadership of the Nationals.
Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews, who is currently behind in the polls, will face voters in November next year and any bid to ban the greyhound industry, which was worth $137 million to the states economy last financial year, could expose him to an electoral backlash similar to the one experienced by Mr Baird.

NSW Labor leader Luke Foley was a strident critic of Mr Bairds decision to shut the industry, and used the issue to claw back some ground on his political rival.

The state Labor leader said last year it was perverse to ban the industry on the grounds of animal welfare, saying the decision would lead to the mass slaughter of greyhounds.

The greyhound carcasses will be piled sky high and theyll have to burn them. This is not a plan for animal welfare, its a plan for mass slaughter, Mr Foley told a public rally last August.

The purpose of the Victorian code is to specify the minimum standards of care for a racing greyhound throughout its life cycle. Compliance will be mandatory for any person who keeps a racing greyhound.

Bendigo Greyhound Racing Association president Bob Douglas doubts there is a racing kennel that currently meets the requirements spelled out in the draft document. The 69-year-old, who has been racing greyhounds for 50 years, has three greyhounds and said yesterday they would almost certainly be his last. There is no grandfather clause. You will have 12 months to comply. Ive never seen a code like it, he said.

With greyhound breeders finding the cost prohibitive, there is likely to be fewer litters born and there has to be approximately 4000-4500 greyhounds born each year to sustain the racing schedule in Victoria of 23 race meetings a week. There are 8 per cent of Australians that bet on the dogs, trots and gallops. Why dont the governments worry about those people that help fund the racing industries instead of those outside it, Mr Douglas said.

People connected with the dogs, trots and gallops, including those that benefit from racing people spending in their neighbourhood or town, may want to consider who they vote for in the next state elections because they may be voting themselves out of a job.

Mr Dailly said that although the NSW industry had a near-death experience before Mr Baird backflipped on his decision, the proposed changes to the sport in Victoria could have ramifications nationwide as it could serve as a template for governments in other states.

Nobody in their right mind would want to invest in this industry. Theyve done their best to come in the back door to try and close this industry down, he said.

If this gets through the way it is, weve got no way of hiding from it.

Greyhounds trainers and owners have until August 14 to reply to the 81-page draft document. The revised code will replace the current Code for the Operation of Greyhound Establishments, which has been in place in Victoria since 2006.




Peter Bryce
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19 Jun 2017 00:45


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The public (Like the woman from the Stone age on Mitchell this morning) need educating on the massive changes in the Greyhound Industry over the last decade but more importantly over the last 2 years. These proposed Industry Code changes are just that - PROPOSED.Congratulations to Geoff Collins for stepping out on the front foot and puting the Trainer Breeder Owners case forward this morning on Victorian Radio 3AW - More of this is required before Government steam rolls its proposal through. Your local Member is your first port of call. Dont be afraid to remind him/her of Mike Bairds fate as NSW Premier.


Sandro Bechini
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19 Jun 2017 01:49


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Michael Barry wrote:

today after reading quickly through the proposed new code ,

i could say we would be quite happy with around 80/85% of it ,

we are breeders and rearers , and i guess spellers for when our pups come back from breakers, prior to pretraining ,,

points that are over done is the paperwork , side of things , we do enough of that now ,
socializing etc , is way over done , and a lot of what they are trying to say is done already by most good breeders ,

vet approved meals is just simply bull sh1t ,

so all in all with a bit of fine tuning we would be pretty happy with it , change had to come , and one just cant go around opposing every thing that is new ,

so with some PROPER consultation with participants im sure we can get a workable code of practice in place

That's a practical approach

Focus on the things that are outrageous and definitely unworkable

Accept the things that make some common sense and that practically are not hard to employ.

I can't see many Vet's wanting to get involved in this for their practice

The time they would need to spend would bring the charges to the trainers and breeders beyond their financial capabilities

It would not be a profitable area fro any commercial Veterinary practice as these services would need to be heavily discounted to support the Greyhound industry

There are a lack of specialist Greyhound Vets as it is

Most of that side of it is totally unworkable IMHO

It's obvious that the Vic Government expects a far amount of backlash from the Industry in relation to this Draft Code

It's time to lobby hard guys. like what was done in NSW




Peter Bryce
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19 Jun 2017 02:11


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There appears to be a broader agenda here - This appears to be a thought out plan by The Andrews Government to achieve what NSW Premier Mike Baird couldnt - Close Greyhound Racing Down - All Greyhound Racing participants need to voice their disapproval to their local MP - Dont be affraid to remind them of NSW Premier Mike Bairds fate.
This issue is not only about the Proposed Code change - It is as much about the lobby by Animal Activists in leading the push to the Victorian Government for these changes.
Your Voice needs to be heard - As well as putting forward your submission - Contact your Local MP - AGAIN Remind Him/Her of NSW Premier Mike Bairds fate in Legislating a Ban on Greyhound Racing in NSW. List of Victorian State MPs - EXTERNAL LINK
FAIR GO FOR GREYHOUND PARTICIPANTS





Steven Martin
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19 Jun 2017 03:47


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Sounds like those who implemented this approach have sprinkled too much sugar on there Weets. This is out of control.

It seems since the introduction of the internet & mobile phones, that commonsense has gone out the window due to the lack of face to face interaction.

Those in control of these ridiculous changed are trying to reinvent the wheel. It's crazy.

Would these changes apply to ALL GREYHOUNDS, including those that have been adopted out from GAP? If not....WHY NOT? I'm sure they'll be happy with the changes too.

It won't be long before you'll need a license to fly a kite...or a diary on how much toilet paper "Squares" you wipe your butt cheeks with everyday.

Fair dinkum....The worlds going mad. WTF!!!!


Bruce Teague
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19 Jun 2017 03:48


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Jack,
Effectively, NSW already has done so. Just wait until the full impact of the costly new rules and organisation comes into effect.

In all three eastern states it is a triumph of bureaucracy over realism.

There is nobody batting for the industry, least of all the state authorities who have sworn to "develop and progress" it under their Acts. Obviously, they did not read their brief.

A march down Macquarie St (or Collins St) served only to delay the inevitable. Instead of a firing squad, they got a slow-acting poison.

Given the hopeless performances of various GOTBAs, GA and the like I would agree with another post that a meaningful trainers' organisation is the way to go - professionally structured and financed. It will cost you but the only other option is a slow death.

Even if that beats the ridiculous Code proposal it will still leave the industry with an urgent need to build a better public image and some decent marketing strategies.

In the long term that can happen only when we get rid of the current governance and bureaucratic structures and create progressive commercial organisations, which is another political challenge.





Dan Hollywood
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19 Jun 2017 03:48


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3 March 2017
Ms Sally Fensling
Executive Director, Domestic Animals, Forestry and Game Branch
Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport and Resources
475 Mickleham Road
ATTWOOD VIC 3049
Dear Ms Fensling
REGULATORY IMPACT STATEMENT FOR THE PROPOSED CODE OF PRACTICE FOR THE KEEPING OF RACING GREYHOUNDS 2017
I would like to thank the staff of the Domestic Animals, Forestry and Game Branch within the Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport and Resources (DEDJTR) for working with my team on the preparation of the Regulatory Impact Statement (RIS) for the Proposed Code of Practice for the Keeping of Racing Greyhounds 2017.
Under section 10 of the Subordinate Legislation Act 1994 (the Act), the Commissioner for Better Regulation is required to provide independent advice on the adequacy of all RIS prepared in Victoria. The Commissioners role is to advise on the adequacy or otherwise of the analysis presented in the RIS, rather than the merits or otherwise of policy or regulatory proposals. A RIS is deemed to be adequate when it contains analysis that is logical, draws on relevant evidence, is transparent about assumptions made, and is proportionate to the proposals expected effects. The RIS also needs to be clearly written so that it can be a suitable basis for public consultation.
I am pleased to advise that the final version of the RIS received on 23 February 2017 meets the adequacy requirements of the Act.
The proposed Code prescribes and enforces requirements for greyhound owners, rearers and trainers, including health management plans, independent veterinarian checks, fencing and housing requirements, and socialisation requirements. Greyhound Racing Victoria (GRV) will administer and enforce the proposed Code.
The RIS states that the Departments objectives in regard to the proposed Code are:
To increase (improve) the quality of life and welfare of greyhounds, throughout their lifecycle and provide consistent management which will alleviate stress and therefore enable an easy, smooth and rapid, transition to a pet at any time point in its lifecycle.
To achieve this, the RIS explains that the proposed Code covers a range of matters related to:
management practices that impact on animal welfare and quality of life (excluding the issues of live baiting and wastage), and the transition to rehoming.
The RIS notes that:
The issue of wastage (oversupply of dogs) and euthanasia is not addressed specifically in this RIS but that Although the proposed Code does not address wastage in itself, GRV strategies and policies (running in conjunction with the proposed Code) will."
The RIS analyses 6 options to achieve the Departments objectives which are variations of the preferred option the proposed Code with GRV enforcement. These include adjusting elements of the proposed Code that have more significant compliance costs (health management plans and rearing requirements), and options based around the instruments or enforcement tools used to influence compliance (including voluntary compliance with the proposed Code supported by an information campaign; adopting the proposed Code in local rules; or using local councils to enforce the proposed Code). The RIS uses a multi-criteria analysis to examine options against the criteria of animal welfare, rehoming potential, and net cost to industry and government. The Department concludes that the proposed Code achieves the best welfare and rehoming outcomes, while also considering the costs.
The Department estimates that the proposed Code will impose a net cost of around $118 million over 10 years, which will affect greyhound breeders and trainers, and GRV in administering and enforcing the Code. The Department notes that many of these costs will be passed on to owners, which is likely to increase the cost by $1,550 per dog over their lifetime a 7.8% increase from the average estimated costs of ownership. It is unclear if this will reduce involvement in the industry.
The Department expects that small industry participants are not likely to face significantly different or disproportionate costs in complying with the proposed Code, as the costs that breeders and trainers will face per dog are likely to be similar, and driven by existing levels of compliance rather than size of operation.
In regard to the costs for hobby breeders, the proposed Code exempts hobby breeders (defined as 2 adult greyhounds and 1 litter) from complying with housing pen/yard requirements, but that all record keeping requirements, vet agreements, health plans etc. however, would still need to be undertaken.
In terms of evaluation, the Department notes that the proposed Code will be evaluated in the context of GRVs broad-based animal welfare evaluation strategy from mid-2019. The stated aims of this evaluation strategy include:
Preventing excessive breeding (reducing litter numbers);
Reducing the premature death of racing greyhounds;
Optimising the use of the racing greyhound populations;
Improving outcomes for rehoming greyhounds;
Informing GRVs infrastructure investments into greyhound welfare; and
Providing training to industry participants to improve greyhound welfare at every stage of the dogs lifecycle.
The Department notes the high level of cooperation it has received from GRV in preparing the RIS, especially in regard to the provision of data, and relevant information.
Should you wish to discuss any of the issues raised in this letter, or the implications of new information or policy options identified through the public consultation process for your proposal, please do not hesitate to contact our office on (03) 9092 5800.
Yours sincerely
Anna Cronin (signed 3 March 2017)
Commissioner for Better Regulation



Mark Schlegel
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19 Jun 2017 03:59


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Dan Hollywood wrote:

A RIS is deemed to be adequate when it contains analysis that is logical, draws on relevant evidence, is transparent about assumptions made, and is proportionate to the proposals expected effects. The RIS also needs to be clearly written so that it can be a suitable basis for public consultation.

Illogical = Fail
No proper evidence = Fail
Not transparent = Fail
Disproportionate = Fail



Steven Martin
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19 Jun 2017 04:12


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A quote taken from Anna Cronin RIS.
_________________________________________________

It is unclear if this will reduce involvement in the industry.
_________________________________________________

Are they trying to be funny?????


Mark Staines
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19 Jun 2017 04:25


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It is "Crystal clear" that it will reduce involvement in the industry and that is exactly what they
want.



Bruce Teague
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19 Jun 2017 04:53


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Dan,

Like I said, bureaucrats just love this sort of stuff.

However, note the letter includes weasel words like "estimated", "are likely", "is likely", "not likely", and the clincher - it all comes from "multi-criteria analysis". Wonderful stuff, isn't it?



Peter Bryce
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19 Jun 2017 04:58


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This is a copy of email I have sent to Victorian Members of Parliament (Both Houses) today

Hello .............
Does the Victorian Andrews Government have a Department of Gaming and Racing - If so are they incompetent. Why is the Racing Minister unable to oversee a Draft Code of Practice for the Greyhound Industry in Victoria. Why does the Andrews Government believe this issue to be a Farming / Primary Industry matter with the draft prepared by the Department of Agriculture.
The requirements in this draft will see the demise of The Greyhound Industry, Red Tape and Business Costs will force many small Self Employed business people out of the Industry.
Greyhound Racing contributes in excess of $400.000.000 Directly and another $130,000,000 indirectly to Victorias economy.
Does the Victorian Andrews Government need to be reminded of NSW Premier Mike Bairds inability to deal with poor decision making?

Peter Bryce
Victorian Citizen



Peter Bryce
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19 Jun 2017 05:07


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Seriously??? This is better material than Benny Hill had written for him !!

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