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NSW Record Wagering - Chaser

Geoff Collins
Australia
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Posts 2010
Dogs 291 / Races 30

09 Oct 2017 22:55


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Wagering On Greyhounds Reaches Record Levels - Chaser Magazine

GRNSW has recorded a 4.7% uplift in wagering turnover for the 2016/17 period, highlighting the increasing popularity of greyhound racing for punters and fans alike.

Turnover on NSW greyhound racing for the 12 month period totalled a record $1.314 billion,reflecting the heightened confidence the betting public has in the industry. This comes despite a
1.9% reduction in NSW TAB meetings held in the period.

Corporate bookmakers continued to drive the positive wagering performance of NSW greyhound racing by generating turnover of $568 million for the year, a huge rise of 19.2% compared to 2015/16. This resulted in corporate bookmakers holding a market share of 43.2% of wagering turnover on NSW greyhounds, a new high for this sector.

This growth has accelerated further in the new financial year, with total turnover up 28.8% and bookmaker revenue up 35.2% in July and August 2017 when compared to the prior year.

The sustained positive wagering performance is testament to the significant investment in the NSW greyhound industry made by the corporate bookmaking sector, and in particular Ladbrokes
for its considerable club and race sponsorship.

GRNSW looks forward to strengthening its ongoing relationship with all bookmakers in the coming period for the betterment of the NSW greyhound industry.

GRNSW would also like to thank the many thousands of responsible greyhound participants in NSW for their valuable and ongoing involvement and contribution to the industry, especially amid the extremely difficult and uncertain circumstances the industry has faced in recent times.

This strong wagering result comes at a time when GRNSW continues to prioritise its investment in animal welfare and regulatory reforms, with GRNSW under no illusion that this reform agenda needs to continue for the industry to have a sustainable future in NSW


Paul Wheeler
Australia
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Posts 329
Dogs 8 / Races 0

10 Oct 2017 00:17


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Geoff
Interesting article
It will be interesting to say the least to see how NSW perform over the next year or two with the down turn in breeding ,will they be able to keep up the volume of quality meetings ?

Maybe GRNSW should start to look at the participant as partners in this industry rather than criminals and they may get a better deal from them with breeding numbers.

Paw


Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 19488
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

10 Oct 2017 00:32


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Paul Wheeler wrote:

Maybe GRNSW should start to look at the participant as partners in this industry rather than criminals and they may get a better deal from them with breeding numbers.

Paw

Couldn't have said it any better Paul


Terry Jordan
Australia
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Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

10 Oct 2017 00:43


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This strong wagering result comes at a time when GRNSW continues to prioritise its investment in animal welfare and regulatory reforms, with GRNSW under no illusion that this reform agenda needs to continue for the industry to have a sustainable future in NSW

Is there a time frame when this will be completed to an ACCEPTABLE standard? and COST?


Mark Staines
Australia
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Posts 4499
Dogs 70 / Races 14

10 Oct 2017 00:59


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The spending will stop when there is no industry left.
6 dog fields and straight track racing, what will that do for wagering ????


Nicholas Arena
Australia
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Posts 233
Dogs 10 / Races 0

10 Oct 2017 21:23


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Here is the Rub."THE PRODUCT" IS In DEMAND ,despite all the negative press- the blatant misinformation - Dumb statements by Politicians (think Baird and Grant) stating the Industry has lost it's Social Licence to exist - weak Administrators peddling the PC line - Activists telling out right untruths.

Joe public likes greyhound racing - they have not listened to any of the above - through the gambling trends they are endorsing the Industry.Good luck to any leftie/activist/politician who chooses to close or restrict the Industry.

What a smart Operator would be doing is identifying how do you make the "Product" sustainable as a Racing Industry not a re homing "Greyhounds as Pets" Industry - right now the lack of breeding and conflict with the Participants is leading to an unsustainable Industry.

Of course these impressive turnover trends will be spun by the Administrators as being as a result of their efforts, which is absolute tosh - the Industry had been growing prior to the 4 Corners - the trend is embedded because the Punter likes the Product.




Dan Hollywood
Australia
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Posts 4166
Dogs 3 / Races 3

10 Oct 2017 22:51


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The only code to show growth, 2014/15 turnover was 1,113.61m while 2015/16 turnover was 1,157.33m. NSW Harness in 2015/16 total turnover was 586.41m ???



Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

11 Oct 2017 23:00


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What an extraordinary story.

First, Chaser is apparently a missive distributed to licensed participants but, as far as I can see, it is not posted on TheDogs website. Why not?
Second, the information should be included in Greyhounds Australasia statistics, but it isnt. Why not?
Third, it is a poor news story as it fails to offer information about TAB turnover, which is the major source of funds. Why not?
Fourth, it amounts to a publicity blurb in favour of a single corporate bookmaker. Is that acceptable practice for GRNSW?

Anyway, back to the meat of the subject.

The overall rise in turnover is good to see, especially as it exceeds the inflation rate. So what does that tell us about the gambling public?

Obviously, those gamblers have been unaffected by all the goings on over the past 18 months, or by the dire and well-founded predictions about the future. So far, so good.

One worry is that we, the punters, can see less and less of betting trends because we dont really know how the cash is falling into the corporate bags (published Fixed Odds prices are also an
unreliable guide). From race to race we know only what the TAB is holding and that figure is getting smaller by the day, making it also unreliable.

Another is that the Fixed Odds package offered by the corporates (and Tabcorp F/O) are rip-offs in that their books at face value add up to around 130%, way above the TAB which deducts only 14.5% for win bets.

On top of that, the corporates are not bookmakers at all but financial manipulators. They routinely accept, reject or alter what the customer asks for and (according to repeated and well-
documented claims), cancel accounts for punters who win too often. And they make up their own rules about payouts.

And, for some strange reason, their commission payments are lower than those applying to TAB betting. (They even went to the High Court to try to make them lower again but lost).

The question then becomes why do people use them? There are two overlapping reasons. Betting via hand-held devices is popular, easy and increasing, and the corporates advertise like crazy,
including via canny introductory offers. They can afford this because their costs and tax rates are much lower than the TAB.

The end results are that the corporates are laughing all the way to the bank (mostly overseas banks); gamblers are bound to lose more in the long run; and the rate of industry income is declining in sympathy with its reduced cut of the betting dollar. That is, the reported growth in turnover will far exceed any growth in commission earned by the racing authority.

Over a decade ago I wrote extensively to welcome the serious arrival of the NT bookies, trusting that they would shake up a moribund wagering scene which featured restrictions on activity by
genuine oncourse bookies, all imposed by state governments and short-sighted racing supremos

In the end, my confidence was misplaced. They have just rorted the system legally, of course.



Terry Jordan
Australia
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Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

11 Oct 2017 23:36


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Bruce a Major slice of the TAB in NSW is PRIVATE, and Floated on the Stock/exchange.
Ladbrokes have poured Millions into racing in this country. I and many more have greater Faith in them than our own State Govt. Open your eyes Bruce, Fixed odds betting will be the ONLY medium available in a few years!
I also remember the NT.Bookie service, a prominent Aussie Bookie set up in a Pacific Island, to avoid a TAX/LOOP/HOLE?
Again comes down to Customer Choice. Young Waterhouse spent every 2nd day of his life in Litigious Court Battles. And sold up for many Millions. Give the Punter what he wants. Was his Motto. Governments flog of anything that makes them/us money including TAB's, Yes our resources pool for income is shrinking. Though NO FAULT of our own Bruce.


Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

12 Oct 2017 05:20


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Terry,
Either someone has fed you fairy stories or you work for Ladbrokes (aka Waterhouse).

Tabcorp is a listed company wholly owned by shareholders, not partly

The Norfolk Island bit is a newcomer but recently has come under direct Commonwealth control rather than being a semi-independent area making up its own rules.

NT operations started with an internet gambling outfit in Alice which much later moved into wagering.

In the early 1990s Mark Read, a Sydney rails bookie, warned the AJC and the state government that it had gone too far in punishing local bookies and that if it did not ease off he would have to
go elsewhere. They didnt and he did ie to set up in Darwin.

Progressively, he was joined by southern bookies from Adelaide, Melbourne and Brisbane, all of whom had similar problems with authorities.

They grew and grew - helped by the huge growth in communications facilities and equipment - and ended up selling off to overseas owners for squillions. Crownbet is new and different in being mostly locally owned (Packer etc).

Crownbet and the twits ar RV also oppose the merger of Tabcorp and Tatts which would be one of very hopes left for greyhound racing to gain decent pools. Allegedly, GRV was part of that push but it has made no announcement. However, its betting guru came from a similar position at the gallops.

All this resulted in huge shifts of cash. Winners are the corporates who quite logically drove trucks through the holes in the tradition-bound gallops betting sector and dumped the profits
into Gibraltar, Malta and wherever.

Losers are (a) racing authorities who now get smaller and smaller pieces of the betting dollar, (b) gamblers who take the ridiculous odds and betting rules enforced by the corporates (millions are
involved in each case), and (c) also losers are potential patrons of the two smaller codes who are stuck with punitive odds and/or cancelled accounts, etc.

Love-em or hateem, the cold hard fact is that over a period it is physically impossible to make profits betting into a 130% book.

Your comment about Fixed Odds is dubious because the game will always be influenced by the big bets/pools at the gallops and they will want to play off one operator with another (the corporates also run much tighter books there, too). However, that will not stop them soaking up whatever blood they can squeeze out of dog gamblers.



Terry Jordan
Australia
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Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

12 Oct 2017 06:38


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Dear Dear Bruce, Read & his cohorts set up in VANUATUE please get your facts right. And LOST OUT, big time!
Bruce : Governments Allowed Corporates into this country. Why? To make a few Million quick bucks.
Whats RV got to do with the merger of TABCORP & Tatts?
Why do you worry where the Corporates off/load their profits?
Bruce if I have an All/Up on the Tote, and stand to win big! Which pools does this effects. W/P? Trifecta's? Next/Doubles? Quinella's?
First/4's?...Your the Guru?
Tote & Fixed all come out of the same pool less 17%. Cant loss!
Corporates CAN!
Your last comment play one off against the other! Like COLES V WOOLIES? The BIG corporates will swallow up the small and end with a duopoly. Governments will see to that Bruce.


Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

12 Oct 2017 21:18


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Terry,
Everything said in your last post is complete nonsense so I will give up now.


Terry Jordan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

13 Oct 2017 07:13


 (0)
 (1)


Terry,
Either someone has fed you fairy stories or you work for Ladbrokes (aka Waterhouse
Yes Bruce would love to! Corporates turned/over $568 Million in NSW last 12 months, 43% of the market. And you would love to p... them off? Betting so far this year is up 28%, and you would love to p... them off. WHO do you work for. Welcome to the 21st century.


Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

16 Oct 2017 04:50


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I should warn readers of a potential problem on these pages.

It has been said that former Sydney bookie Mark Read was part of a Vanuatu set up way back. I have no evidence of this one way or another but I seriously doubt it. However, if it is not true then anyone claiming it as gospel could well run themselves into a defamation action.

The original Vanuatu bookie (or one of them) was actually a side venture of a Canberra bookie who set up a company there. One shareholder was Bob Hawke although he subsequently withdrew.

Anyway, Vanuatu has a dismal history with organisations such as The Betting Shop, Punting Pal, International Sports Online and Betjack being criticised in various ways.

The last-mentioned had its Gold Coast offices (a call centre) shut down by Queensland police following many complaints about non-payment. Apparently, that office was set up so as to avoid being done as an overseas operator betting illegally on Australian races. It did not work in the end.

Melbourne criminal mobs are also alleged to be involved in some Vanuatu cases.

Separately, as a matter of interest, while I can understand people betting with NT corporates because of the convenience, they should be wary of the value they get (if they get a bet on in the first place).

As one guide, consider The Everest last Saturday. Tabcorp Fixed Odds paid $8.00 on Redzel and I imagine the NT prices would have been similar they usually follow one another. Over the week the F/O figure eased out from $7.00 to $7.50 before finishing at $8.00. But the tote paid $8.60. A difference like that is very common, which suggest that there is not a lot of price competition between the various F/O operators.. And all that is in a huge and fairly stable market. Greyhound markets will be much more volatile.

I took particular note of that one because I backed it myself on the tote!



Ian Bradshaw
Australia
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Posts 251
Dogs 6 / Races 0

16 Oct 2017 05:39


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Bruce,

In all your assessments of totes and corporate bookies, you haven't mentioned Betfair yet ????


Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

16 Oct 2017 21:03


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Ian,

Betfair? Not sure of the reason for your query. I don't "assess" it because it's awkward to do it. You can ferret around and find out what is going on on the day, of course, but they have a peculiar policy of not supplying long term figures to any one - including RA's Fact Book which is otherwise a fairly useful publication.

So we have a situation where (a) the corporates' and Fixed Odds figures on the day are not available (b) annual figures for Betfair are also not available and (c) any betting figures for greyhounds are erratic and differently presented from state to state. The sum of that is that anyone interested in interpreting what is happening to Australian betting is usually in the dark. That's a poor outcome but is typical of the random nature of racing administration in this country.

As for Betfair itself, I see it as a good thing and a good option to have but Australians have not cottoned on to it in great numbers so it is not doing nearly as well here as it does in UK etc. However, it is a product better suited to serious and experienced punters - a group which is in decline - rather than mug gamblers in the pub.

The whole deal is like considering buying a new car when only one of them will tell you what its performance figures or its actual price are. Or if only one manufacturer of cornflakes will tell you what its sugar or salt content is. In both cases, those people would be breaking the law.

In racing, bung rules apply.

posts 16