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More on the NSW Governments lies.page  1 2 

Simon Moore
Australia
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Posts 2026
Dogs 32 / Races 393

12 Nov 2017 11:35


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Has anybody read this article yet?

EXTERNAL LINK

Interesting comments down the bottom too.


Ross Farmer
Australia
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Posts 84
Dogs 0 / Races 1

12 Nov 2017 21:03


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My experience is that over-representation of vocal minority positions in the media will feed government opinion unless reduced to fact.

An effective way to tackle such misrepresentation is countering with an objective fact-based stance by the industry

But with the industry being controlled by public authorities, such stances will not be taken. The best that can be hoped for is damage control at individual state level, as occurred in Victoria.

Substitute greyhound industry specific circumstances in the following article and there is a basis of an effective industry position regarding political/media negativity & misrepresentation.
EXTERNAL LINK
But greyhound racing has no effective industry champion to present such views, or with the resources and access to the detailed information that allows for proper industry representation.

This is a major weakness in the industry. And why all the NSW misrepresentations were never challenged.

It is too late after a decision is made. (Unless the backlash is enormous, and mightily helped by prominent media figure support, as in NSW).

It is why individuals should engage with their local State members, where facts should prevail over the emotion-based arguments of industry opponents.


Mark Donohue
Australia
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Posts 1766
Dogs 6 / Races 0

12 Nov 2017 21:23


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Engage State Members ? The majority in the Government voted to 'Ban' the industry until the circus came to town. The LIB/NAT wanted to shut the industry down on lies and false figures. They still do. They only want to save their seats at the next election in 2019. One wants to build a track when they're going to close 16 ! Where's the millions of $ going to come from ?

Kick Them Out !
Kick Them Out For Good !

Really, they're no good.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 141
Dogs 0 / Races 0

13 Nov 2017 02:17


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 (0)

Mark
Not quite, Ross is right.

As you said, the majority of Lib/NP members,including the present Racing Minister, voted for the ban for two broad reasons:

1. They did what the boss told them to do (note that some who disagreed later got demoted).
2. We have to assume that they personally had no strong reason to support greyhound racing - or had no-one in or out of their electorate badgering them.

As an example of the second group - the current Minister's electorate of Bathurst contains a busy dog track and good historical support in the area (Orange, Cowra etc). Yet he explicitly spoke in parliament about the need to eliminate "overbreeding" and live baiting abuses, neither of which were occurring in his electorate, and then voted for the ban.

So, did locals speak to him? Did they look for public support in the region? Or did they sit back and rely on the Alliance and the Shooters to do the work? Don't know.

However, your call to boot them out is not without danger. The Labor mob might do the same thing - just as they have in wiping ACT racing off the face of the earth.

Labor in Victoria are so far proceeding to cause "death by a thousand cuts" as they ram through punitive regulations (as Baird and Iemma have done in NSW). That Andrews and Pakula are busy telling everyone they love greyhound racing is just more evidence of two-faced behaviour. (The previous Premier Napthine, a vet and a Lib, would never have done that).

The point is that two minorities ruled the roost - Baird on the one hand and the Greens/Animals Aus/RSPCA on the other. Baird just does not like greyhounds and, to put it delicately, his whole family have a very particularly philosophy of life and society which certainly does not include racing and gambling.

Whatever, parliamentary support is essential and it will come only from MPs who know the industry or who are well informed about
it (the lady in Wagga is a good example). They will never be a majority but they could be influential. So that's who the industry has to get at. The Shooters will help but they are not enough on their own.

There is no other option.




Mark Donohue
Australia
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Posts 1766
Dogs 6 / Races 0

13 Nov 2017 02:49


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Bruce,

If they hold the balance of power, the SFF Party will be right for greyhound racing in NSW. The current state of play or the future ALP in NSW, isn't enough. That's why we need the NATs out of play in regional NSW and the ALP supporting us in the fight for survival. The ALP said they would. Let's see. So far so good.

One thing for sure, the ALP will not be giving their preferences to the AJ Party.

However, the major parties have put the cleaners through us over the past twenty years and you want me to `pat them on the back' ? They come with lies and deceit and don't care about the industry. As Grant said when asked about the monies that won't be raised in taxes from the greyhound industry if it were closed down. He said, "we'll find it elsewhere." They don't care about us. Don't waste your time. Beat them at the ballot box.

They will have to come knocking on the SFF Party's door to pass their Bills. The softly, softly approach is just `lip service'.


Geoffrey Monish
Australia
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Posts 46
Dogs 0 / Races 0

13 Nov 2017 06:14


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I haven't seen any comment from the current CEO(ex poly)
What hope do we have!


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 141
Dogs 0 / Races 0

13 Nov 2017 06:36


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Mark,
Yes, holding the balance of power is the key. But that can come from the SFF or others and also from renegade Lib/NP people who agree with the basic worth of the industry, or who identify the injustice of it all.

The target is to influence the Libs or Labor, whoever is in power, by every and all means. You cannot ignore them because they write the first draft of new rules - and sometimes the last version as has already happened in NSW and Qld and may well do so in Vic.

Theoretically, GRNSW and other authorities should be carrying the banner but, as we all know, they do not do that when the chips are down - ie they are not independent no matter what sort of people are on the board or what the Minister might like to say. The system is morally corrupt.

At the moment I have not the slightest confidence in Iemma carrying the banner so it is even more important to develop a supporting base amongst the public and any available MPs.

I also stress the need for lots of individual approaches to MPs because history has shown that GBOTA and the former NCA are part of the problem, not of the solution. I can't think of a single positive thing they have ever done to progress the industry.

No idea where you got your pat them on the back or softly softy ideas from - certainly not from me. I have been advocating the opposite for 20 years now - in responses to inquiries, in numerous articles and in letters to politicians as well as to the same GBOTA/NCA - much of which is on the public record.

If industry people don't do the same thing in large numbers then I fear for the future (as Wheeler does). Already, the latest breeding figures are horrifying. And no state will be spared.



Raymond Lacava
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 42
Dogs 0 / Races 0

13 Nov 2017 06:39


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Mark u have nailed it one hope and only one the SFF this is why anyone
with a genuine concern for the future of the industry must become financial members of the party and advise them of your interest in the industry



Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6032
Dogs 10 / Races 0

13 Nov 2017 07:01


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RAYMOND LACAVA wrote:

Mark u have nailed it one hope and only one the SFF this is why anyone
with a genuine concern for the future of the industry must become financial members of the party and advise them of your interest in the industry

Absolutely 100% spot on.




Simon Moore
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2026
Dogs 32 / Races 393

13 Nov 2017 07:35


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i still find it hard to see how in a country like this that the government can make up blatant lies and run a media campaign using taxpayers money to do it and not have the pants sued off them for it.

if there is not a claim for compensation for these actions then i'd be quite shocked.




Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2965
Dogs 12 / Races 0

13 Nov 2017 08:25


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simon moore wrote:

i still find it hard to see how in a country like this that the government can make up blatant lies and run a media campaign using taxpayers money to do it and not have the pants sued off them for it.

if there is not a claim for compensation for these actions then i'd be quite shocked.

Simon us as a greyhound industry seem to run our own race. There's needs to be 1 owners and trainers association. Every time something happens in our industry we have these little breakaway groups who are " going to fix everything "

We need one big association ( union ) CFMEU slogan TOUCH ONE TOUCH ALL.

Every one in our industry is running there own race that's why we will never be strong. Sad but very true.

Even with all this bull shit over the past 2-3 years we still haven't got our act together and started one big organisation.

The powers to be must just laugh at us.



Michael Geraghty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3221
Dogs 13 / Races 15

13 Nov 2017 10:55


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Ross Farmer wrote:

But greyhound racing has no effective industry champion to present such views, or with the resources and access to the detailed information that allows for proper industry representation.

This is a major weakness in the industry. And why all the NSW misrepresentations were never challenged.

This is what I have been trying to exclaim.
You have hit the nail on the head, Ross.
We have just one problem...

The industry either doesn't want a champion, couldn't be bothered getting a champion, or would rather wait until the next catastrophe before a belated marshmallow resistance is organised.

So, you are left with your other suggestion...
"It is why individuals should engage with their local State members, where facts should prevail over the emotion-based arguments of industry opponents."

You would be far more effective pi$$ing in the ocean.
You may have some success, maybe not, with the indies, but politics is big business and there isn't a hope in hell of moving the majors with sanitised protests.
Politics is also a very very dirty business...


Ross Farmer
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 84
Dogs 0 / Races 1

14 Nov 2017 03:22


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 (1)

Mark Donohue wrote:

Engage State Members ? The majority in the Government voted to 'Ban' the industry until the circus came to town. The LIB/NAT wanted to shut the industry down on lies and false figures. They still do. They only want to save their seats at the next election in 2019. One wants to build a track when they're going to close 16 ! Where's the millions of $ going to come from ?

Kick Them Out !
Kick Them Out For Good !

Really, they're no good.

Political lobbying should cover the parties, all sitting MPs, whether their party is in government or not, and any known candidates.

It seems that the ban was not the view of the Nats as such. Troy Grant seemed to have made a captain's call in the interests of coalition' unity rather than stand by constituents. The majority of senior leaders followed suit, but it was no means unanimous.

I received the following response from the NSW Nationals immediately after the ban was announced.

"Dear Mr Farmer,

I’m writing in response to your contact with us about the proposed ban on greyhound racing in NSW. First of all, I’m sorry for the frustration, anger and sadness which Mike Baird’s announcement has caused you and many others. Many people have been getting in touch with our office either via the website or calling directly, particularly supporters and members of The Nationals who are upset by the move.

I have been collecting and responding to all the complaints we’ve received for a report which my boss, the State Director of the NSW Nationals, is going to present to Troy Grant and the rest of the Parliamentary leaders when they are back in Sydney for Parliament.

In the meantime, the legislation to ban greyhound racing still has to be passed by the Parliament – it is not official law yet. There is a strong group of National Party MPs speaking out against the ban and leading the opposition to the legislation.

I encourage you to make sure you also contact your local state and federal politician to register your strong opposition to the proposed ban. They are your local representative in Parliament, so it is important that they know how yourself and others feel about the decisions that affect the lives of people in your community.

Once again, thank you for getting in touch to voice your concerns about this proposed ban and how it will affect your community. The reasons for your frustration are certainly acknowledged and will be brought to the attention of our National Party MPs."

I provided many Nationals and some Lib MPs with a document of facts that demonstrated mistruths and incompetencies within the McHugh enquiry. Few responses.

I also contacted federal MPs, NSW MPs and Vic MPs (I am Victoria based).

It took the Orange by-election for Baird & Co to realise that social media represents a minority view that does not translate into voting outcomes.

Certainly the Nats in Victoria are very positive on greyhound racing. The shadow minister is responsive, knows racing, and will act on fact.

Until someone lobbies effectively, who knows whether the NSW Nats or NSW Labor strongly support greyhound racing or not.

Shooting sports can lobby effectively, which has to cover the major parties, not just minority parties, even though the SFFP is the party most aligned with their interests. Greyhound racing needs to take some lessons from what works.



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 141
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Nov 2017 03:48


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 (1)

Ross,
Absolutely it is vital to keep approaching local MPs of all parties. However, let's also remember that while the original aim was to overturn the ban the objective now has to turn to easing the burden of excessive regulation about day to day kennel operations. That and the direct costs of sustaining two authorities, rather than one, promises to send the industry broke. Note it did exactly that during the life of the old GHHRA when GRA could not keep paying for the other authority's expenses.

Talking about the detail of those regulations is beyond my ability but there are literally thousands of people who do know and can write in about the difficulties they have now or will have. Let's hope they power on with factual stories about additional burdens and costs - much as Victorians have to do with their proposed changes still being debated.

Perhaps someone can start a thread here detailing their particular facts?

Meantime, other opportunities can always crop up. One such is the report of the Auditor General on NSW government advertising where Baird went over the top and exaggerated or used incorrect facts. The AG did not get to them all but did criticise a few items, so I have sent a submission to them explaining what and how (if anyone wants a copy ask me at hcoast@outlook.com).

Immediately, this will lead nowhere (I doubt they will reissue the report) but in the longer term it at least attempts to build a library of hard info which can provide a reference point.

At a minimum this can be used in appeals to local MPs etc. Here is one excerpt:

"Despite the government’s claims that only eight countries have greyhound racing there are actually seven more that not only have racing but also betting – Chile, Morocco, Denmark, Sweden, France, Uruguay and Finland. Fourteen others offer racing but no wagering – according to website data of Grey2K, an American organisation radically opposed to any form of animal racing, and which carefully references the claims".

The core eight countries are Australia, NZ, Vietnam, China/Macau, America, Mexico, England and Ireland.

The AG's report is available on audit.nsw.gov.au.

By all means copy GRNSW on your appeals but I would not expect much help there as Iemma effectively wrote the new rules himself when chairing the Reform Panel.



Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1766
Dogs 6 / Races 0

15 Nov 2017 05:41


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A prominent trainer in Lithgow, well dressed with tie, went into Mr Toole's electoral office and asked to see Mr Toole about the greyhound industry. The reply from the office worker was allegedly, that they tried to close the industry, but this time around they've found a better way of doing it. Interesting response.


Michael Geraghty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3221
Dogs 13 / Races 15

15 Nov 2017 10:02


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As much as I despise Animals Australia, mainly because of their dirty, manipulating, and dishonest tactics used to attain their vegan agenda, they have mastered the art of lobbying.
They infuse people with passion, anger, and a willingness to ACT.
Through a very professional, user friendly web page they hook the people to go the next step and lobby on their behalf...and they do it extremely well.
The result is a handful of people(Animals Australia) are effectively responsible for tens of thousands of emails to politicians.
I can't help but admire that...they make us and most other animal industries look like slow learners.
So, how do we become as professional and effective as them?
As it stands...we don't...can't...won't.

Therefore, we lose.

They entwine lobbying with ACTION which hits the politicians smack in the face with the potential loss of VOTES.

Moves mountains.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1766
Dogs 6 / Races 0

15 Nov 2017 11:11


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 (1)

The GBOTA only comes out of the closet to react when it suits them. There's no proactive effort from them. If you're not a member then we have to suffer silently. GAG was proactive, but didn't have the numbers to continue their effort. However, individuals from GAG still lobby the ALP n SFF to push for a better deal. They weren't part of the GBOTA led Alliance, but were always there to ask for a better deal for us. They were at the Orange and Cootamundra by-elections, marched down to Parliament House, became members of the SFF Party. They were even part of the 'no racing' a few years ago.

It's funny how GBOTA (Gunnedah) received Tab C status for 2017/2018 after work was done to their track to bring it up to standard at 'who knows expense'. Yet mid-north coast, which was supposed to have been allocated Tab C dates at the same time, still hasn't received any. Both need it.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 141
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Nov 2017 21:15


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Mark, Toole spoke and voted in favour of the ban so that is not a surprise. It also indicates he has brainwashed his staff or hired people of the same mind.

The issue now is that the industry should be professionally challenging the excessive nature of new regulations via administrative appeals tribunals in both NSW and Victoria.

In theory, that is what GBOTA is set up for but unfortunately GBOTA/Scott was responsible for approving them up in the first place. Catch 22! The bloke who recommended those regulations ex the Reform Panel - Iemma - is now boss of GRNSW so obviously he will not do it. Catch 23! Sir Humphrey would have been proud of the government organising such "sound" people.

It is hard to see why anyone would join GBOTA or remain as a member.

Rumours about a motion of no confidence in GRV reflect the same problem. Unlike NSW, the Vic GOBTA has no tracks but is said to have been involved in discussions - whatever that means. Either way, it has no special influence. Plus GRV declines to fight for the industry.

No doubt all this influenced Wheeler to cut his production in half, while the figures in both states for Litters indicate many others were of the same view.

The answer is a proactive new organisation to represent the players (see AFL, NRL, CA and professional tennis). While I can cheer for the cause I am in no position to do much more for a couple of reasons.

If trainers cannot or will not do it then perhaps major owners - who have lots at stake - should get together to build up an influential unit, much as has occurred in politics these days.




Michael Geraghty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3221
Dogs 13 / Races 15

16 Nov 2017 04:01


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Amazing!
A 9yo elementary school girl singing about our industry.
Even she gets it!
She's no fool.

EXTERNAL LINK

Elementary, dear Watson.
What does elementary mean, Sherwock?



Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5763
Dogs 166 / Races 66

16 Nov 2017 04:29


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Michael.

The sound coming out of that little girl's cheeks, when she's standing up on her 2 feet, facing that audience is UNBLOODYBELIEVABLE.

It's a bit like the rule markers, but the only difference is their standing on their hands.

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