I understand perfectly that Bob and others would like to see Cessnock back on the TAB ranks.

But it took what must have been years to go round and round the merry-go-round of Cessnock v Maitland with the then-GRA and the dubious Minister Face. Much of that involved politics rather than racing. Eventually, Maitland won and Cessnock lost its ticket and reverted to a training track.

Now, here we are in another era when cash is short and likely to get shorter, people want to commission an extra TAB track when there is some chance we will not be able to finance the ones we have. Right or wrong, it will never happen, so why flog a dead horse, duck or whatever.

There are related issues.

Cessnock was an interesting grass circuit but it also contained holes while kikuyu stalks caused toe damage.

The area population and business activity was and is only a fraction of what was offering at Maitland. Maitland is growing, Cessnock is not (bar some vineyards).

It had extremely poor public facilities, although the dining area was good once you got up there (crumbed cutlets were excellent).

Winter nights were a disaster. The grandstand was a collection of planks which copied what you might see at a kids soccer ground.

Race viewing was poor (back straight) even for the camera. It was the only place in the state where I had to take my big binoculars. That does not meet modern standards.

The club used poor judgement when it and its lawyers challenged the then-GRA in court (and lost) about what was a carefully considered decision by the umpire. The industry you, me and everyone else then had to donate half a million to get it out of trouble.

All this developed because of the poor management of tracks at Gosford and Gardens, where many millions have been invested and which will not go away. Bad news, yes, but these are engineering and maintenance matters which can and should be fixed.

Incidentally, note that Gosford is a multi-user public facility which is the responsibility of the local Council, not just the club. It has had its problems ever since the speedway arrived and spewed metal all over the dog track.

Regardless, of your unprovened comments about Cessnock, its a Y or N thread. Find another thread to express your dribble.

Go for your life. So long as it is your money. I would have thought that busy trainers would have better things to do than chase fairies at the bottom of the garden. Still, you and Mark apparently know more about me than I do myself. Marvellous!

Incidentally, Branxton is equidistant to Cessnock and Maitland. Broke is further from both and neither are in the Cessnock LGA. Maitland's population is 40% bigger than Cessnock's but wine is doing well this year though so that will help with visitors.

Ive lost control of the thread, lol. Go your hardest ev one.

Love is not the issue although I did like Beaumont Park.

All three of these tracks have some maintenance problems but the big issue is that they have all got significant layhout-design problems and have had since day one (or since 2010 when Maitland was rebuilt). GBOTA, NCA, the current Gardens club, the Gordon/Gardens club and GRNSW have combined to waste millions of industry money through sheer incompetence - as I have said before if you were reading carefully.

GRNSW would be amused at your suggestion I am a spy. Try asking them.

Incidentally, did you know Branxton was the last significant town in Oz to own a manual telephone exchange - ie one where the operator hooked you up by plugging cables into little holes in the board. I had to check that out as a cadet engineer with PMG (now Telstra) but the saver was I was then able to attend the Maitland Derby night along with thousands of others. You could barely move in the betting ring.

Still, Cessnock has fame, too, apart from being a Labor town. It generated a lot of great footballers as well as the bloke who owned and ran Racecourse Totalisators and the fella who became global chief of Coca Cola. Not bad. The high school maths teacher used to take his senior class to the horse track to have them study statistics - until the wowsers put a stop to it.

But I vote No.

Fascinating to hear that you would drive past two handy one turn Tab tracks to get to Cessnock. Others have said they desperately want the grass yet, at the same time, the vast majority of their racing was on loam.

Similar comments applied when Parklands converted to loam. They had no effect.

However, I suspect most trainers with a calculator would have totted up the cost of time and fuel and the potential prize money return and said thanks, but no thanks. Indeed, in a survey during the Cessnock v Maitland saga Hunter locals dominated nominations, with some help from Western Sydney but none that I can recall from your area.

But this is not a popularity contest - it's business. Decisions have to be made on businesslike grounds, which is what happened when Cessnock was de-licensed. Were the study renewed there can be little doubt that the same result would follow today. The parameters are all much the same with the exception that the industry's financial future is very chancy now.

So even were Cessnock a great answer, nothing would change. In fact, the challenge now is to justify retention of the TAB tracks we have. Adding to them would be sheer madness. It will never happen.

Are you aware that Cessnock achieved the Highest population growth in the Hunter Region (2006-2011) after deregistration by a faction, led by the shamed leaders of the NSW Greyhound Industry?

Ironically, later a trial track at Potts Park received non TAB meeting dates and new kennels. They still have meeting dates. It helps to have political influence at GRNSW at the time. If Queanbeyan receives a track well, nothing has changed. We will know.

Also did you know that;

Cessnock City's Gross Regional Product is estimated at $1.97 billion, which represents 0.4% of the state's GSP (Gross State Product).

The Cessnock City Estimated Resident Population for 2016 is 56,762!

Cessnock City had a higher proportion of pre-schoolers and a lower proportion of persons at post retirement age than Regional NSW in 2016

There were 1,052 people over the age of 85 living in Cessnock City in 2016, with largest age group being 5 to 9 year olds

There are 3,040 couples with young children in Cessnock City in 2016, comprising 15% of households

In 2016, the age group with the highest net migration to Cessnock City was persons aged 25 to 34 years

The Hunter Valley wine-growing area in the Cessnock LGA is Australias oldest wine region and one of the most famous, with around 4,500 acres under vine. The vineyards and wineries of Pokolbin, Rothbury, Lovedale, Mount View, Millfield and Wollombi, are also the focus of a thriving tourism industry.

Cessnock has begun to develop other tourist ventures beyond the wine industry such as championship golf courses, hot air ballooning, sky-diving, fine restaurants, motels, cabins and guest house accommodation. Wine-related tourism has also created opportunities for other attractions, Wollombi Village and the Richmond Vale Railway.

There are many shops located in the Cessnock CBD, including major supermarkets such as Woolworths, Coles and Aldi along with numerous retail shops such as Big W, Target and Bunnings plus numerous cafes and restaurants.

The Cessnock Local Government Area houses Pre schools, Primary Schools, High Schools and a TAFE institute for further education.

- Cessnock Public School
- Cessnock East Public School
- Cessnock West Public School
- St Patricks Primary School
- Bellbird Public School
- Nulkaba Public School
- Kearsley Public School
- Cessnock High School
- Mt View High School
- St Phillips Christian College

The local bus service is run by Rover Motors which provide services to Maitland, Newcastle and Sydney as well as City Hoppars and School Bus Services.

Support infrastructure across the City now includes two hospitals, community health services, a range of childcare options, and aged care as well as numerous other community support services.

The NCA led at the time by Richard Zammit was able to obtain racing dates for The Gardens starting with I think non-TAB then to TAB. Whatever weight you want to place on Mr Zammits admission that he was good friends with the then Chairman of the greyhound board is irrelevant now, but the board removed racing dates from Cessnock. To me, the result was that with Singleton, Wyong and then Cessnock closed, The Gardens was able to funnel nominations towards them from the catchment. There is more to it, but I cant comment any further.

All I know is, it had nothing to do with the track n its viability. Fast forward a few years and The Gardens was devastated by the NCA. Now, the GRNSW appears to be receiving no rent as well as having track and contamination problems. We need to Right the wrongs of the past.

Stage 1- early 1990s - lots of messing around with SKY coverage when Warren Wilson (now Panthers) thundered around the state enrolling individual clubs for SKY rather than dealing with GRA, which just looked on and did nothing Eventually, Cartwright did intervene and refereed some decisions.

Stage 2 - TABCORP kicked NJC/Beaumont Park out of Saturdays, prize money went down, trainers went on strike, Cartwright arrived to count votes but otherwise GRA did nothing. NJC offered the whole package to everyone for $3.5m but all knocked it back. Beaumont Park shut down.

Stage 3 - (a) GRA had long been concerned about the need to rationalise tracks but got nowhere as it lacked political courage. (b) subsequently Minister Face (Labor) got involved with Cessnock(Labor)/Maitland(swinging) discussions, hired a matey Newcastle accounting firm to investigate and report. The report first favoured Cessnock to continue and Maitland to close but was later reversed when it was realised they were using crook figures. End of Cessnock.

Stage 4 - with Newcastle in a void and Wyong a problem, GBOTA, NCA and GRA hacked out a deal much like the one the Allies sorted out after WW2 in Europe. Wyong went west, NCA got Newcastle, GBOTA got Maitland. In exchange, NCA agreed to dump its support for Singleton, which then folded. NCA built the Gardens (but badly). In part, all this revolved around SKY coverage and, to a lesser extent, Face giving NJC (Broadmeadow) a license to bet on its off-racing Saturdays. NJC sold off Beaumont Park for housing for squillions more than the greyhound people could have paid.

The whole thing was a saga of mis-management and non-management, mostly on the part of GRA/GRNSW. Wyong has been a terrible loss to the industry, but also Singleton was a helpful strategic outpost as it catered for a wide range of dogs from the North and Northwest of the state. The track was crook and needed rebuilding along with public facilities but the town possessed a population with the highest average earnings in the state (mining) and the local club was pretty lively. Tough luck.

So, yes, I am aware of all the Cessnock demographics, and they will continue to improve, as will Maitland's. But there was never the slightest question that what Maitland offered was much better than the nearby Cessnock offered. Still does, although I would never put GBOTA in charge of anything.

The key, then and now, is that the NSW industry cannot sustain two adjacent clubs doing the same job. Orange and Bathurst is another example. So are Cowra/Young or Casino/Lismore but nobody has been game to do anything about them.

Gary, the source of the problems is not "shamed leaders" but the lack of leaders of any description, shamed or otherwise. And you will never get any as long as management-by-committee applies.

And, regardless of the club's day to day viability, to incur huge legal costs in chasing a lost cause when it had no financial backing was not only bad business but potentially illegal. Even had it won the case it had no way of covering its costs.

What do you have to put forward for discussion from lets say 2016 to the future?

Bruce may I recommend you make application to Maitland Council to view the DA proposals for the Maitland Showground Site! There is not a provision for a Greyhound Track!

Cessnock and GRNSW have a letter of support from the Mayor of Cessnock for a Centre of Excellence ! Also the two worlds best Greyhound Vets support Cessnock one also in writing to GRNSW and the other was the course vet when the Gynkhana was held and he attended the day for Gratis!

Dribble in Swahili