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Tornado Tears....page  1 2 3 

Rod Strachan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3556
Dogs 46 / Races 16

06 Apr 2018 06:15


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 (1)


Doubt I have ever seen a more impressive 700m debut than this bloke last night. Just a tick outside Miata's 715m track record at Sandown. Super impressive front running display!


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1275
Dogs 0 / Races 0

06 Apr 2018 06:35


 (2)
 (1)


Absolutely. It offers perspective to all other performances in recent months, to say nothing about a highly talented litter,


Hayden Gilders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 721
Dogs 26 / Races 0

07 Apr 2018 06:13


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More than enuff pace to win $1m


John Staines
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3462
Dogs 916 / Races 0

07 Apr 2018 08:14


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he comes from a great damline


Brett Margerison
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 599
Dogs 11 / Races 0

25 May 2018 00:41


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Start 3 over 715m and already a Sandown Cup winner... Looked a little lost when he got to the leaders, so considering it was only his 17th race start I cannot wait to watch the next year of feature staying events involving this bloke and his brother... Outstanding...


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1275
Dogs 0 / Races 0

25 May 2018 07:54


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Brett,

Absolutely. Tornado came back to their pace, probably for the reason you mentioned and they all had only a 7 day break.

On the same night, I was astonished to see Packey Keeping (honest but not a world beater normally) bust the Shepparton 650m record set by Tritt Tritt. It also did it the hard way as it never led until the home straight. What's worth noting is that the two place getters (Out of Range and Dyna Dean) were more fashionable favourites but could not keep up the pace. All had their previous start over the 700s in town but Packey's run was 12 days ago while the other two had only 7 and 5 day breaks respectively. That usually counts.


Brett Margerison
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 599
Dogs 11 / Races 0

25 May 2018 08:14


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Different tracks, different surfaces and dogs that don't run a solid 650... wouldn't read too much into it...


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1275
Dogs 0 / Races 0

27 May 2018 06:12


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 (1)


Brett,

Perhaps so but those SHEP placegetters did have smart placings over 650 behind them, which is why punters liked them.

The salient point is that Tornado did not show as much zip as usual - not a hardened stayer etc - and therefore was at some risk at its second 700 in 7 days. It got through on class but in much slower time. Rippin Sam (same age) had much more experience and a different racing style so it might be expected to run up to its previous standard - which it did.

Whatever, the long term facts are that the majority of dogs, no matter what their class, cannot perform at their top over a distance without a longer break than 7 days. Those that can are the exceptions, not the rule. (Statistically, "Majority" = 65% - 70%).




Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1275
Dogs 0 / Races 0

01 Jun 2018 01:26


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 (1)


Further to my last point, note that last night at Sandown Packey Keeping raced like a crotchetty old man to finish last over 715m in comparable class to the near-record 650m run at Shepparton (7 days ago).

This aligns with a point made by Dr John Kohnke that LAW racers are suspect next time out because they have used up all their resources and have not had time to replenish the tanks. That would be even more acute when that previous win was in really fast time. They are not robots.

Kohnke's theme has been verified time and again over many years in all classes of races. A "Rippin Sam" style racer might get away with it but most cannot.


Rod Strachan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3556
Dogs 46 / Races 16

14 Jun 2018 12:39


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Smashes Dashing Corsair's 8 year old track record tonight at Albion Park running 41.33.....FREAK as I have said since day one!


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 17562
Dogs 14148 / Races 1799

14 Jun 2018 22:26


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Rod Strachan wrote:

Smashes Dashing Corsair's 8 year old track record tonight at Albion Park running 41.33.....FREAK as I have said since day one!

Not too crotchety last night

The dog is just a superior stayer that can do it at both ends



Branko Lezaja
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 434
Dogs 2 / Races 0

14 Jun 2018 22:54


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Sandro Bechini wrote:

Rod Strachan wrote:

Smashes Dashing Corsair's 8 year old track record tonight at Albion Park running 41.33.....FREAK as I have said since day one!

Not too crotchety last night

The dog is just a superior stayer that can do it at both ends

Spot on Sandro , I couldn't agree more with that statement , Tornado Tears freakish talent is due to his dam & damline that keeps on producing City / Group dogs & his damline is 1 of the best damlines in Australia IMO.



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1275
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Jun 2018 00:58


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 (1)


Rod,

Agreed. A decent beginning made all the difference.

The other interesting point in the race was that Jalapeno ran down Rippin Sam in the final 10m. A big improver.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1275
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Jun 2018 01:01


 (0)
 (2)


Sandro,

"Crotchetty" was used to describe a run by Packey Keeping. Nothing to do with Tornado Tears. Accuracy please.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 17562
Dogs 14148 / Races 1799

15 Jun 2018 02:29


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 (0)


Bruce Teague wrote:

Sandro,

"Crotchetty" was used to describe a run by Packey Keeping. Nothing to do with Tornado Tears. Accuracy please.

Accuracy is that you tend to treat all modern stayers with disdain, despite them breaking track records as Packy Keeping actually did

There could be a dozen reasons why Packy Keeping failed at her next start, but I can almost guarantee you (only the trainer could give you a 100% guarantee) that it would have zero to do with a 7 day back up

The other reason why Tornado Tears improved so much, if you bothered to notice, was last week was his first look at the track and Rob Britton before the race mentioned that he seemed to feel his way around

Therefore, the previous week was another way to get beaten, which also has ZERO to do with any type of quick back up.

But I do agree with you that Jalapeno was a super run and has promised to do this

Another interesting point, Tornado Tears/Rippin Sam comes from a long line of staying bitches going back to Trojan Tears

Jalapeno's granddam is none other than Miss Brook, another died in the wool Qld stayer

The genes don't lie





Branko Lezaja
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 434
Dogs 2 / Races 0

15 Jun 2018 02:41


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 (1)


Sandro Bechini wrote:

Bruce Teague wrote:

Sandro,

"Crotchetty" was used to describe a run by Packey Keeping. Nothing to do with Tornado Tears. Accuracy please.

Accuracy is that you tend to treat all modern stayers with disdain, despite them breaking track records as Packy Keeping actually did

There could be a dozen reasons why Packy Keeping failed at her next start, but I can almost guarantee you (only the trainer could give you a 100% guarantee) that it would have zero to do with a 7 day back up

stayers are usually not successful at stud but i think Tornado Tears would probably be a decent Stud dog after racing , I never get tired of watching that freak of a dog in action.




Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7028
Dogs 26 / Races 9

15 Jun 2018 04:05


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Branko Lezaja wrote:

Sandro Bechini wrote:

Bruce Teague wrote:

Sandro,

"Crotchetty" was used to describe a run by Packey Keeping. Nothing to do with Tornado Tears. Accuracy please.

Accuracy is that you tend to treat all modern stayers with disdain, despite them breaking track records as Packy Keeping actually did

There could be a dozen reasons why Packy Keeping failed at her next start, but I can almost guarantee you (only the trainer could give you a 100% guarantee) that it would have zero to do with a 7 day back up

stayers are usually not successful at stud but i think Tornado Tears would probably be a decent Stud dog after racing , I never get tired of watching that freak of a dog in action.


he is not equipped to be a stud dog i believe


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1275
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Jun 2018 08:30


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Sandro,

You said "Accuracy is that you tend to treat all modern stayers with disdain, despite them breaking track records as Packy Keeping actually did

There could be a dozen reasons why Packy Keeping failed at her next start, but I can almost guarantee you (only the trainer could give you a 100% guarantee) that it would have zero to do with a 7 day back up".

1. Yes, as I said, a good run by Packey Keeping over 650m. Way better than anything it has done previously. But it has never starred as a stayer - which means over 700m-plus. It plods.
2. Nothing to do with a 7 day backup? Sandro, you have absolutely no way of supporting that claim. None. It may or may not be so.
3. Neither could the trainer be certain unless he did exhaustive before and after blood checks and the like.
4. Year after year we have been finding that around two thirds of 7 day backups result in poorer performances - no matter what the class of race or dog. That is a fact because I have been counting them. The difficulty is in knowing which ones are in the 2/3 group and which in the 1/3. Some are clear, others are not.
5. "Disdain" is your word, not mine. I deal only with actual performances, especially with consistency.
6. A related issue is that there are genuine staying types which cannot run time and there are staying types which can ran time. The former numbers seem to be in decline, the latter numbers are literally as rare as hensteeth.

Incidentally, why did Rippin Sam actually fade a bit at the end - very unusual for him. A bit tired? Who knows? Still, most of them ran pretty well. As I said earlier, BGC710 is the least demanding long trip around.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 17562
Dogs 14148 / Races 1799

15 Jun 2018 09:13


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 (0)


Bruce Teague wrote:

Sandro,

You said "Accuracy is that you tend to treat all modern stayers with disdain, despite them breaking track records as Packy Keeping actually did

There could be a dozen reasons why Packy Keeping failed at her next start, but I can almost guarantee you (only the trainer could give you a 100% guarantee) that it would have zero to do with a 7 day back up".

1. Yes, as I said, a good run by Packey Keeping over 650m. Way better than anything it has done previously. But it has never starred as a stayer - which means over 700m-plus. It plods.
2. Nothing to do with a 7 day backup? Sandro, you have absolutely no way of supporting that claim. None. It may or may not be so.
3. Neither could the trainer be certain unless he did exhaustive before and after blood checks and the like.
4. Year after year we have been finding that around two thirds of 7 day backups result in poorer performances - no matter what the class of race or dog. That is a fact because I have been counting them. The difficulty is in knowing which ones are in the 2/3 group and which in the 1/3. Some are clear, others are not.
5. "Disdain" is your word, not mine. I deal only with actual performances, especially with consistency.
6. A related issue is that there are genuine staying types which cannot run time and there are staying types which can ran time. The former numbers seem to be in decline, the latter numbers are literally as rare as hensteeth.

Incidentally, why did Rippin Sam actually fade a bit at the end - very unusual for him. A bit tired? Who knows? Still, most of them ran pretty well. As I said earlier, BGC710 is the least demanding long trip around.

Actually Packy Keeping has put in several good runs in the past. It is a backmarker and usually finds interference and most of these types are temperamental when things don't go their way

Its about as relevant as you saying that you have counted the incidents of poor performance off a seven day back up. Its pure coincidence. You aren't taking into account any other factors as to why the dog may or may not have performed up to standard. They are living creatures, not numbers on a page and in many cases are only as good as the humans training them.

Disdain isn't my word, it belongs in the English vocabulary and I am just using it to describe your attitude to the modern stayer.

There are plenty of sprinters that can't run time, so whats your point.

Rippin Sams performance, refer to Packy Keeping comment.




Michael Geraghty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3851
Dogs 14 / Races 15

15 Jun 2018 12:20


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Love watching great stayers and Tornado is just that.
Fantastic stayer who hopefully has all ahead of him.
At only his second look at Albion, to break the record is HUGE!
700m racing ANYWHERE is hard yakka...some just do it better.
Agree with others, the damline is proven to produce these types and no-one can deny that.

Some interesting stats came out of that race last night that no-one has touch on...

1st. Tornado Tears...41.33 but 7 days ago...42.12

2nd. Jalapeno...41.65 but 7 days ago...41.75

3rd. Rippin' Sam...41.70 but 7 days ago...42.26

4th. Ebby Ripper...41.72 but 7 days ago...42.13

5th. Gelantipy Gold...41.83 but 7 days ago...42.12

6th. Benali...42.12 but 7 days ago...41.91

7th. Cyn's Magic...42.19 but 7 days ago...42.34

So, SIX out of SEVEN runners IMPROVED their times from 7 days ago.
The only dog that didn't wasn't that far off.

Interesting stuff.

posts 48page  1 2 3