Bill,you have our suggestions,its up to people to band together now...LMAO Where are the ALLIANCE NOW PEOPLE?????they should be leading us in to battle.no ALL got their heads up each others cracks,weak as....and twice as yellow,we will go no where but backwards as we are everyday without some sort of fight and leadership.DOOMS DAY IS ON ITS WAY

We are wandering about a bit here with various ideas. Let me make a couple of practical points.

First, Unions. Personally, I support the principle of a union to represent workers. However, I have great doubts about some of their motives and methods and their leadership, and they vary hugely. If you fly a union flag you will immediately lose support from some quarters. (Also note that the vast majority of workers do not like unions - 91% in the case of non-public service membership)),

And most of the people here are not workers but small businessmen so many different aspects are then involved.

Politically, union backing will not help you deal with Lib/NP governments and they are slightly more likely than anyone else to be in power after the next election. I am being realistic.

Second, politically, Rhodes is in the boondocks. Marching there will achieve little. Must be Macquarie St.

Third, someone has to get all this down on paper and make sure everyone is singing from the same sheet. Half a dozen key points with solid reasons and no emotion. We need a "Fair Share" kind of banner to lead off.

Fourth, amongst other things, two single page documents need preparation - one to relate a day in the life of a greyhound (care, housing, medical attention, vets, feeding details, exercise and more, picture of mum with pups), the other to list all the taxes paid by the industry (this might also include the annual subsidy being paid to the gallops and trots, and the improper share of the tax parity changes.)

The main aim is to get long term support from government and the public but it is also important to forestall all the nonsense stories put out by the anti groups.

First move should be to start a post on this site and other greyhound sites such as aussie greyhound forum,

we have to try and get numbers of persons willing to travel to sydney for such a meeting, Macquarie st would be first selection I think,

When we get ideas of numbers willing to attend we should get in touch wih GBOTA, and Grnsw and notify them of our intentions and ask them that we would like a representative from each of them to appear with us as to show unity for our cause,
We should also as you suggested arrange for placards as to why we are holding such a meeting,

We should as you suggested ask for speakers from the members and if possible from GBOTA AND GRNSW to speak on our behalf ,however anything they are going to talk about has to be checked by selected members to make sure the speeches are of benefit to our cause,no mud slinging and negative words will be accepted.

Bill,
Youre joking right, about getting GBOTA n GRNSW to assist with representation for any march along Macquarie St. Good luck with those two bodies.

Placards ? Yes !
March or Protest ? Yes !

Here are just a few of my thoughts on some of what has been discussed.

The Alliance is dead and wouldn't be able to permanently perform the function it did in the ban. Although it contained members of industry, it also had access to a range of professionals and people with political and media access that are now working for others.

I cannot say too much about the GBOTA given that my mother is a director but the situation they are in, where they run race meetings, places them at a huge disadvantage when they are in conflict with GRNSW. There is simply a lot for them to lose in any negotiation with GRNSW and means that conflicts between participants and the governing body can often go unresolved.

I disagree with you Bruce on the next election. I dont think the LNP will be in power after next election and to be honest, if they are we have no chance of surviving anyways. They will not work with us. There are too many in the party who still want to see us banned and if they get back in power they will think they have the will of the people to do it. We need to be active in our support of the SFFP, Christian Democrats and Labor so that we have a government we can work with.

I agree with you on the documents Bruce. The problem is as the commercial body GRNSW should be doing it but instead they are too busy trying to getting on the good side of Mehreen Faruqi and dreaming up new ways to penalise participants.

I agree in principle with a march but it would need to be organised properly. It would also need large numbers or it defeats the purpose. Given that I am pretty confident the GBOTA would be against it (way too confrontational for them) that lessens the numbers straight away. I am not sure what the position of the SFFP or the AWU would be and it would be important to know that before organising it.

I do agree that at the moment they split us up into groups to make it easier to deal with. GRNSW has been very successful at this for years. They also love to place the blame onto participants for their bad decisions. Eg: its because of the drug cheats we need the cobalt and arsenic thresholds. Its because people didnt raise their dogs correctly our GAP cant rehome them.

I agree we need to get the message out to the public the antis are wrong but I think we first need to convince GWIC and GRNSW that the antis are wrong. From all I have heard they seem to think the McHugh report is fact and if we cant convince them I dont see any hope for them regulating us in a fair and responsible manner.

Now we all know I have chosen to join the AWU and I am hopeful that they will be the body that will be able to fight for us. They have political access and other connections that other organisations won't have. The meeting with GWIC is a positive first step and I will keep people informed as to what happens. I have heard from many that are ready to join if they are happy with the outcome of that meeting.

One thing I have found so far from the AWU is that they know that it is the participants who have the knowledge of the industry and what needs to be done going forward. They have the experience in how to try and get things moving forward. Together, I think we can work well and hopefully make a difference.

Dump all your eggs in the Labor/SFF basket and where will that leave you if Labor does not win? There will be some problems with Libs retaining seats/support but I don't see Foley as sufficiently imaginative to lead the troops to victory. Not to say they can't and Gladys has her problems, but you have to look at the odds.

SFF - if they win one more seat they will be doing well, two would be brilliant but unlikely. They will be of value only in a hung parliament. More risky will be Greens pinching Labor seats???

But I plead with you - do not impose the union on the industry. There is no upside there, no matter what your personal opinion.

There is an Upper House too Bruce, which is where you would want the SFFP and the Christian Democrats (who have also been very good to us) to hold the balance of power.

No way that the Greens are going to pinch Labor seats. Look at every election recently. Look at the Batman by-election. The whole country has lost faith in the Greens.

I already told you where we are if the Libs win, with no hope anyways. We need to remove them.

I am not asking you to join the union. I am not forcing anyone to join the union, that is their choice. Just as it is my choice and has been the choice of many others to join. In doing so we have joined forces with a body that is looking to work with participants and try to get solutions for our concerns.

As I have said before if you don't want to join that is fine, but do not discourage others who want to do something that might help save the industry and want to join a body that will listen to them and work for them.

I respect other peoples choices in how they want to fight what is happening to us and I expect the same in return.

Thats probably the best and most accurate post I have read in a long time.

Pitch Perfect. Everybody, can you feel it ? Can you feel it ?

Most of our concerns at the moment seem to be based around the welfare of the greyhound itself (hydration policy, low threshholds ,track conditions etc).These concerns will become the property of the GWIC in the near future,therefore all queries or arguments against will need to be directed through the welfare advisory committee. And of course, there is no advertised structure to contact this committee, and they can't inform the participants of anything because of their confidentiality clauses.

It is too early to demand information on future funding,licencing, track consolidation,retirement policies etc because they haven't been developed yet.
,
This state of affairs is not that of worker vs employer,it is one of politics enforcing policy upon an industry. Only a change of government and someone to champion our cause at a parliamentary level will change the current setup.

Meanwhile, we can make our voice heard.Something as simple as a greyhound Facebook site where everyone agrees on one issue (eg disclosure of applying for a water bucket exemption )and bombarding GRNSW with hundreds of similar e mails requesting information will show solidarity and a will to stand up for input into our own future. It is not a disruptive tactic and it won't go unnoticed.

It is similar to tactics used by activists.

I understand some people cannot join a union that is fine. In terms of representing us the AWU recognises that the greyhound industry is different to others they represent in our relationship with the controlling body. But the facts are that we do supply the product so if they want greyhound racing to continue they need us and we have no choice but to be licensed with them or we cannot continue in the industry.

We need to be able to communicate with them as a collective if we want to be able to get a better deal than we currently have. In an ideal world there would be no need because the GBOTA would already be doing the job of representing us but many of us believe that that is not working to our benefit at the moment.

The AWU has reached out to the GWIC knowing that it will have the welfare and integrity functions from July. On of the issues I think is important to bring up is participant consultation. The importance of it and how will it be achieved. One of the biggest issues of the past was that policies etc were often decided on with no industry involvement and against the advice of experts in the industry (eg industry vets).

I agree that we need political change but we also need to be able make sure our voice is heard by the controlling bodies. Something that is not happening at the moment.

I like your emailing idea.

Carly, the SFF Party will be running candidates in the lower house as well.

Mark, I hope they take some seats from the Nationals in the lower house.

Currently, out of 42 upper house seats the LNP have 20 so they need to get the support of a minor party (or Labor) in order to get legislation passed. This will likely be the case next election where the party that holds power in the lower house does not have the majority in the upper house. Australians have a long history of not giving the same party power in both houses.

At the moment the (Greens and Animal Justice Party) have 6 and (SFFP and CD) have 4. The SFFPs results in by-elections suggest that they could get more seats if those voters vote for them in the upper house. The CDs even got more votes than the Greens in the Canterbury by-election. Every election conducted recently has seen the Greens vote dropping and that trend seems likely to continue here also.

We wont know till next election but I would say that there is a realistic chance that the SFFP and CD can hold balance of power next election. Of course all of this is ignoring One Nation who will be a new factor in the next election.

Its not lying, its mistaken, and you are mistaken on two fronts. Youve come along before with your comments that arent accurate.

The SFF Party would love to hold the balance.

Who are you going to vote for in the Upper House ?

"I respect other peoples choices in how they want to fight what is happening to us and I expect the same in return".

I have no opinion on what individuals want to do in respect to joining a union, nor did I say that. My point in all this is that if the industry, or a part of it, goes to government flying a union banner it will achieve less than if it remained independent. It will be tagged forever. It is bad politics and that's the game you are entering.

As for the Greens, their results vary widely from state to state. They are often influenced by short term issues or dumb speeches by some members, including Di Natale. Batman in particular had a very questionable candidate. I hope there is a national downturn but don't count your chickens yet. On pinching seats - sorry, but they have already done that in Melbourne and in ACT, they have been threatening for some time in inner Sydney and the North Coast, while in Qld their support ensured that Labor got back with a majority - a government which has torpedoed the Logan project (under Green pressure) and is still sitting on a promised $10m.

The Upper House bit is all very well but it plays an essentially negative role (partly because that is its brief). Any reversal of laws and policy must be generated in the Lower House. For example, Borsak did a terrific job in the Inquiry but how did it help greyhound racing? Nil. Zero. Zilch. Indeed, it highlighted the unfortunate income splits yet Grant turned around and made it worse.(Overturning the ban was a separate subject involving different sections of the public and different principles).

We have got to get to the government before the election as well as after - no matter who is in power.

"We have got to get to the government before the election as well as after - no matter who is in power" - Bruce Teague.

You have my attention Bruce - What do you recommend and how and who should deliver the "get" ?