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The Victorian shadow minister for racing, Tim Bull, has taken the long stick to racing minister Martin Pakula, labelling him ignorant and out-of-touch following todays Public Accounts and Estimates hearing.
At todays PAEC hearing, Mr Pakula was unable to answer basic questions on the recently-released that has been slammed by trainers, breeders and industry representatives as unworkable, Mr. Bull said in a press release.
The Minister was unable to respond to questions on how he expected industry to meet requirements of the Code described by industry as overreach.
In 2017, the NSW Greyhound Racing Industry Alliance told AustralianRacingGreyhound that the proposed Victorian Code of Practice is clearly unreasonable, unworkable and potentially unviable.
Two specific points that Bull claimed the Labor Government has been unable to clarify included:
An air change rate of a minimum of eight changes per hour (every 7.5 minutes) for greyhounds in enclosed pens. How the Government planned to enforce the threat of sanctions for pup bullying, as opposed to pups naturally sorting out their pecking order. Bull accused the Racing Minister of being unable to answer questions on those specific questions Pakula referred them to the Agriculture Minister at the hearing.
Bull stated that a Liberal Nationals Victorian government would review the Code to restore common sense to the guidelines.
Owners and breeders are genuinely concerned as they are facing sanctions over these matters they deserve transparency from the Andrews Labor Government, Bull went on to say in his release.
When even the Minister who oversees the industry and claims this Code has the right balance has no idea how it will work, what hope have industry participants got?
Owners and trainers feel this Code is unworkable and unrealistic, but Daniel Andrews and Martin Pakula are forcing this Code on them despite concerns the requirements will force grassroots trainers from the industry.
Yay, Sanity prevails!!!
Who's been coaching Mr.Bull.....Charles??? (Your been caught leaving footprints outside his office's) Lol
Charles W Mizzi Australia (Verified User) Posts 684 Dogs 1 / Races 1 30 May 2018 06:38
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He's a clever man Terry and does not need coaching from me, Pakula and co. are making it easy because they have done nothing but cover their own arses to save themselves politically in this area. GRV are no different happily obliging their master and dishing it out to participants.
A few of them have jumped ship, but plenty remain to keep up the charade of a big happy family.
You give me to much credit, but I must admit being a serial pest sometimes pays dividends! hahaha
Michael Barry Australia (Verified User) Posts 7402 Dogs 26 / Races 9 30 May 2018 07:19
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when in opposition they all promise big things ,, in vic at the moment there is nothing really pointing to a change in government at the elections coming up later in the year
Charles W Mizzi Australia (Verified User) Posts 684 Dogs 1 / Races 1 30 May 2018 08:00
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Michael Barry wrote:
when in opposition they all promise big things ,, in vic at the moment there is nothing really pointing to a change in government at the elections coming up later in the year
Which state do you live Michael? Not Victoria.
Politian's do promise a lot of things, in or out of government. I have been lobbying since January 2017 for participants to be treated fairly in many aspects of the industry to no avail. The shadow minister for racing has been one that has listened and understands the situation, being given information from many quarters. I dare say the folder is pretty large.
Labor and the Greens are on the nose and Andrews and Pakula are spending like crazy to shore up. Greyhound people have been traditionally Labor voters and I have not heard one say they are voting for them. There will be a change in November and a chance to influence the dominating culture at GRV. That is what I am going for. If not I am done with the industry(not the dog)
Michael Barry Australia (Verified User) Posts 7402 Dogs 26 / Races 9 30 May 2018 08:35
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charles w mizzi wrote:
Michael Barry wrote:
when in opposition they all promise big things ,, in vic at the moment there is nothing really pointing to a change in government at the elections coming up later in the year
Which state do you live Michael? Not Victoria.
Politian's do promise a lot of things, in or out of government. I have been lobbying since January 2017 for participants to be treated fairly in many aspects of the industry to no avail. The shadow minister for racing has been one that has listened and understands the situation, being given information from many quarters. I dare say the folder is pretty large.
Labor and the Greens are on the nose and Andrews and Pakula are spending like crazy to shore up. Greyhound people have been traditionally Labor voters and I have not heard one say they are voting for them. There will be a change in November and a chance to influence the dominating culture at GRV. That is what I am going for. If not I am done with the industry(not the dog)
Charles, i have lived in vic for 48 years ,
those in power will do or say anything to stay there ,,
those in opposition will do or say anything to get there
the andrews mob may be on the nose , but the other mob arn't exactly smelling like roses either ,
and on sportsbet labour are still favorites,
and in my humble opinion it will make little difference to the greyhound industry no matter who wins ,
the industry is totally fragmented and as such will never be an industry that will get listened too , and there will never be rules etc to please them all , my opinion is things are going along quite well in VIC plenty of confidence returning , and breeding numbers well up
David Plumridge Australia (Verified User) Posts 411 Dogs 563 / Races 127 30 May 2018 09:29
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Labor $1.82 Liberal $1.92.....I'll take the $1.92.
Kev Galloway Australia (Verified User) Posts 2447 Dogs 5 / Races 0 30 May 2018 09:44
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david plumridge wrote:
Labor $1.82 Liberal $1.92.....I'll take the $1.92.
I'd rather win 82cents than lose a $1.
Mathew Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 48 Dogs 0 / Races 0 30 May 2018 13:23
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The biggest issue that the grv still refuses to face is that of clarity in which direction they are heading and what support they will give hobby breeders and trainers ,the big boys will be fine they have the supply of good dogs and the $ they generate to update their facilities and pay the staff to satisfy any form of conditions imposed The rest of us are just waiting ....
Michael Geraghty Australia (Verified User) Posts 4138 Dogs 14 / Races 15 30 May 2018 19:50
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I took $11 on SFFP winning Orange.
Nice.
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 30 May 2018 21:58
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charles w mizzi wrote:
He's a clever man Terry and does not need coaching from me, Pakula and co. are making it easy because they have done nothing but cover their own arses to save themselves politically in this area. GRV are no different happily obliging their master and dishing it out to participants.
A few of them have jumped ship, but plenty remain to keep up the charade of a big happy family.
You give me to much credit, but I must admit being a serial pest sometimes pays dividends! hahaha
Charles Many of us have seen the emails you have sent to Mr Bull and co . I applaud you for your continued work .
I also know that there are many Members out there doing the same things as you Charles and i thank them also for having the guts to commit..
Bruce You have so much to say and a lot of it is 100% correct but don't you think sending these posts and emails to the PTB would be a far better use of your time and energy . Bruce If you want to help then Help us help us ourselves support us don't continually try to BASH our heads in with your over the top Diatribe .
I applaud all of those people who are out there battling away sending emails sharing information all over the World .
It is a world Wide Battle now and if we stop the Rot then it will ensure we have a prosperous future ..
The RADB Board in Victoria must be closely looked at by the Government as i believe they have done some terrible things to so many Past and Present Members and they need a full over haul ...a REVIEW ..
The GRV Are rotten from the inside out ...LOOK AT THERE PRESENT STAFFING NUMBERS TO JUSTIFY MY CLAIMS .
We now look at the GAP or the GRV adoption programs ..
We have millions being spent
in 2 years time there will be NO Greyhounds to adopt so what happens to the 50 odd workers so far in GAP do they move up to being Stewards ...
Will it be a group of ANTI racing people Adoption our Dogs .
I was also told about a DEAL BETWEEN SANDOWN AND THE GRV .
I have been told they were purchasing a TRAINING FARM together so that Sandown could race Greyhounds under there own club and name .
I was told a few trainers were approached to train for the GRV and Sandown racing club ..
I was also told that the GRV have backed out of the deal and are leaving Sandown to go it alone ...
Maybe BRUCE ....or the Sandown directors or there PR staff can confirm this has taken place ..
Who's money was used ...
Why was this action taken and then dismissed after live baiting stuck its ugly head into the equation
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 31 May 2018 00:28
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Kevin,
You're a hard man to follow.
"Bruce You have so much to say and a lot of it is 100% correct but don't you think sending these posts and emails to the PTB would be a far better use of your time and energy . Bruce If you want to help then Help us help us ourselves support us don't continually try to BASH our heads in with your over the top Diatribe."
I am trying to put together "100% right" and "diatribe". Difficult.
My time and energy has long gone to informing the PTB of the industry's shortcomings, most recently a few months ago when I wrote (again) to all Ministers. I did mention that on these pages so please concentrate more.
As for "diatribe" - not a helpful comment. Criticisms are always welcome but not if you fail to explain what and why. Anyway I do not indulge in one-liners as it is usually necessary to explain why I do what I do.
Following requests on this site, I have suggested in some detail how to prosecute the case. That has been rubbished by several people here, now including you.
Separately, someone here has written to Hadley while Borsak has mentioned a couple of hassles in Parliament (presumably fed to him by a participant). All to the good but what have we achieved?
Was the right or the complete message sent to Hadley. What subjects did it cover? Was it directed at influencing the public (which is what Hadley does)? I don't know but we can hope.
Borsak made a heavy point on cobalt - an important issue. But will it grab his audience? It did not make the news and very few people read Hansard. It is a technical subject and highly debateable at the moment. To most listeners, it will be in one ear and out the other. To some it will fall under the heading of drugged dogs - yeah, right, been there, done that.
By far the most important issue is that government has over-reacted to animal abuses and created a structure which will tear down the industry, particularly financially. That should always lead the story. Anything else must work to back up that story.
GOVERNMENT KILLS INDUSTRY BY STEALTH
To do that we (whoever "we" are) have to put together the full package and tell people, including MPs and media, what the all issues are in language they can understand. Borsak can then back that up as he sees fit. Ditto for Hadley. Doing it in fits and starts is not the way to go. You need a rifle, not a shotgun.
Kevin, if I wanted someone to train a dog for me I am sure you would do a terrific job. But the evidence here is that none of you have a clue about running a professional political campaign - which is the challenge we face. Perhaps that's why I am forced to keep saying the same thing over and over again.
Michael Barry Australia (Verified User) Posts 7402 Dogs 26 / Races 9 31 May 2018 09:19
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mathew wright wrote:
The biggest issue that the grv still refuses to face is that of clarity in which direction they are heading and what support they will give hobby breeders and trainers ,the big boys will be fine they have the supply of good dogs and the $ they generate to update their facilities and pay the staff to satisfy any form of conditions imposed The rest of us are just waiting ....
if you are competing with the big boys as you call them , then you must comply with the same set of rules and regulations
or mayb hobby trainers/breeders should only be racing for a % of prizemoney ?
plenty of so called hobby trainers are winning group races ,
we are hobby breeders breed 1/2 litters a year and i think its fair that our property/facilities should be the same standard as anyone breeding 50 litters,
some times on a %basis the hobbyist is doing a lot better than the professionals
John Toye Australia (Verified User) Posts 123 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Jun 2018 05:56
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can,t agree with you mick,sure you do get the odd hobby boy winning a group race now and again,but very rarely ,check out the meadows of a sat night ,its not unusual to see the big fellow win 7 or 8 ,if its not one its the other,but they plow heaps of folding into the sport so as the old saying goes you get back what you put in,as for plenty winning group races, no the odd one maybe ,if they snare a good chaser,then there up against the might of the giant kennels,who do win them all the time,the battlers will allways be there, they have to be ,its great when they do break through it keeps the dream alive ,JMO .
Michael Peter Martin New Zealand (Verified User) Posts 75 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Jun 2018 20:11
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John, you have just summed up all human endeavour since time began
John Toye Australia (Verified User) Posts 123 Dogs 0 / Races 0 03 Jun 2018 05:03
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thank you michael, i do my best to explain the truth
Mathew Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 48 Dogs 0 / Races 0 03 Jun 2018 09:56
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I'm talking about a lot of trainers and rearers a lot of them that are retired that have done sensational job with their current facilities that are being forced from this great sport by ridiculous over regulation Regulation that will take the fun out of the sport
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 03 Jun 2018 22:57
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Matthew,
mathew wright wrote:
I'm talking about a lot of trainers and rearers a lot of them that are retired that have done sensational job with their current facilities that are being forced from this great sport by ridiculous over regulation Regulation that will take the fun out of the sport
I can't disagree with your basic theme but is it the right theme today?
I would hark back to all the volunteers who put together the tracks we have and the working bees that kept them going. Worth their weight in gold. They kept the sport alive when otherwise it may have withered and died. We owe them.
That was then. Now we have TV, decimal currency, credit cards, SKY, TABs, football on FTA, Pay TV, the internet. Who goes to a corner store when Woolies can sell to you at a price lower than the small fella has to pay for his supplies?
Once I had to buy four newspapers to gather up results for the previous night's racing (including a day-old Herald Sun). Now I get much more in a few minutes work in my office. Once I had to make a train journey twice a week (a full morning each time) to get hold of NSW and interstate formguides from Val Anglim's Dog Shop near Central station. Now I get the lot in another few minutes in the office. (And the Dog Shop is now a newsagency run by a Korean guy who has hardly any formguides these days). And the Gold Guide is dead anyway.
Thanks to those retired guys - but no thanks.
More to the point, are we doing a good job with what we have now. Absolutely not. We have stuffed it up by trying to hold on to the 1950s. People outside NSW may not realise that the state still has three formguides. One - the deFax version - is sold at the track and is missing vital info like sectional times. Another, the Recorder, is in a cumbersome broadsheet format (who needs that) and is also missing some data. The third is the OzChase internet version, which is the worst piece of customer information I have struck in a lifetime - on any subject. The font is too small, a race takes up too many pages, it contains data errors and brevity has given way to flowery presentation. Race results are poor, too. It is the prime reason that I and many former customers gave up betting on NSW races years ago. Too hard.
Regulation is not the only thing that takes fun out of the sport.
Long ago at a meeting about charges for weather info, a big time airline captain agreed to pay higher charges on one condition - that they installed windows at all met offices.