Facts and bar stories are two different things.

My very reliable inside info on V'Landys is that he was not well liked at HP trots. Certainly the Glebe community (mainly hockey) hated him, prompting a one hour ABCTV doco. He presided over millions spent on a very nice grandstand improvement but nobody came so the effort and the cash was wasted. He created a mini poker machine palace there which failed miserably - nobody came.

The Financial Review ran a display ad for the RNSW job one day and the next morning V'Landys was appointed???

He then campaigned aggressively to keep corporates out of the action - "parasites" in his words - but was later forced to renege.

The only thing he won was the High Court case brought by the corporates to pay commission on profits rather than turnover. (RV stupidly favoured the profit method). Meantime, the gallops continue to lose market share, as it has done for the last 25 years, but gets by on greyhound cross subsidy and government handouts.

HP was closed for many millions of financial reasons (from developers) post-V'Landys, and then moved to Menangle.

What he will do for NRL is unknown but then it is a bit of a mess anyway. I would not like to see him anywhere near the dogs. I would prefer a more professional approach.

Back to the subject: to classify the recent episodes as "persecution" is ridiculous. My observation is that they broke the laws. PAW agreed with that. There are plenty of things to criticise both NSW authorities about without resorting to nonsense. My first pick would be the GWIC location at Bathurst, many miles from the majority of popular tracks. The mind boggles at possible transport costs alone.

Neither you nor I can speak authoritatively about animal welfare in China - at best, we have seen snippets of info. Consequently, we have no choice but to accept a hopefully accurate assessment from the umpire.

On "Yes Bruce persecution is an apt description! How would you describe it?" - it is not necessary for me to respond to that. Others have done that. The law was broken. PAW pleaded guilty. PAW was penalised.

You imply that because of live baiting in Australia China must be no worse and is therefore an acceptable destination for dogs. That ignores the fact that the local errors involved a minority of very foolish people, duly penalised, whereas the Chinese issue is more one of the national culture and the everyday attitude to animal usage and husbandry. The comparison is not apt.

Were we to adopt the Chinese practices I could see Baird returning from the dead to wipe out greyhound racing forever - and with huge support. Equally, Indonesians, Israelis, Muslims and Hindus all have food practices that are most Australians do not subscribe to but it is not our job to tell them how to live their lives.

I have no hesitation in dumping on GA for many things, but not this one.

Nicholas Arena
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02 May 2018 08:21

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charles w mizzi wrote:

Bob, there is negative stuff because there is negative stuff, ignoring it will not make it go away. PAW was disquld, without him saying exactly what happened we can only speculate and be way off, so no speculation.

He may have been advised to plead guilty and yet other circumstances like the blind eye may have been involved, and I am sure GRNSW would not admit to that, they may be able to live with their lies as has been done here in Victoria where innocent people are being disquld for things that will eventually be proven to be a furfy.

All of this crap runs deep and may cripple the Australian industry. I would not have believed that the Aussie car industry would be gone but governments and bureaucrat's can do wonders at destroying human endeavour. No where in the Australian industry has the governing bodies defended participants, only attacked them and what a scalp to have the great PAW.

Greyhound racing began and still is the working class sport which at the end of the day has proven to be a weakness because it is very difficult to fight the good fight as well as put bread on the table. The GOTBA in Vic is the perfect example, all good people with a limited amount of time. I remember a statement made when I was on the committee, when I asked "why are we not having meetings with GRV every month and the response was, "if that happened when would I get time to train my dogs"

Power has forever been one sided, power over the norm, maybe November at our state election we may have an opportunity to change that!

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Charlie. PAW was neither charged nor pleaded guilty to exporting greyhounds. He was charged with facilitating the export of greyhounds - in other words he admitted to selling dogs to other people who in turn exported the dogs to China. Some people may claim this is one in the same but it is not.

To date GRNSW has spent circa $1m , and still going, on legal costs associated with their Industry export crusade , a trade that was fully understood and known to both participants and the authorities, in fact a some of the Stud dogs sold were public news in greyhounds publications.

From where I am sitting PAW has taken one for the Industry - GRNSW seemed hell bent, at any cost, to prosecute a leading Industry figure. Conversely not one positive initiative or action has been forth coming from the new CEO to grow the business. NSW is a leaderless state in the hands of zealots focused on driving participants out of the Industry.

My rhetorical questions in closing are. How many dogs have been exported to China since the export ban was introduced and what financial benefit was gained by spending a significant amount of "today's" revenue on a past practise undertaken in full view of those paid to enforce regulation?

Bruce is the Live Baiting saga over? in your mind? Why Bruce do we continue to be Bombarded with Rule Books, Greater Fines, COP'S, Commissioners, GWIC's, All in the name of Animal Welfare! What of the Trainers/Owners future welfare??...Believe me, it's reaching breaking point!
Please Bruce point out to me where I stated "China must be no worse than us"? I foresee a Hugh Market, which could be a Gods send to Greyhound Racing W/Wide. Someone needs to capture and harness this Market. Don't you think they will remember those that shunned and Ostracised them. The same way the Greens/A-A treat us?
Sorry Bruce I forgot you have little to no feelings, or empathy towards Dog trainers/Owners. You do this because you like to write.

PS. Yes Bruce I have only seen footage, supplied by Grey2K of Racing conditions in Macau. Suspect it was very distorted to?
Also Bruce some here are disgusted that some Countries consume dogs! Wonder what these Countries think of US Bruce? We EAT the Animals on our Coat/Of/Arms! Kangaroos & Emu's.

You are taking wild guesses at what is in my mind rather than sticking to the facts. Not a good policy.

Here's one example .... "Bruce is the Live Baiting saga over? in your mind?".

No, it is far from over, but I am merely an observer. More importantly, it is still current in many other minds, particularly critics of the industry, various newspapers and racing authorities. Dial up "greyhounds" and you will get a string of words like live baiting, cruelty, shut it down.

Objective reasoning will tell you that the public is not concerned about trainers reaching "the breaking point", nor will they have any sympathy for the disqualified dog trainers or the horse trainers who have been and shortly will be chucked out for drug offences.

I have stated several times that I think the remedial measures have been excessive but that is neither here nor there at the moment.

The industry's biggest problem is that it has done little or nothing to mount programs to push the worth of the breed and therefore balance the books, so to speak. GAP has been an exception but even that was done for an indirect and narrow reason - ie to reduce euthanasia. Everyone is sitting back and hoping the public will suddenly realise how wonderful the dogs and the participants are.

That will not happen. The public will not come to us, we have to go to them.

Yes, China would be a great market for unrequired dogs (as it was once) but that is not going to happen either. To start again would be a bonanza for greyhound critics. So move on.

Your comment about Australian Chinatowns is pretty rude, too. They are subject to exactly the same health rules and inspections as everyone else. (I speak from experience in that industry).

Here's a different thought. Muelsing of Aussie sheep has been a centuries old practice - to avoid the horrible flystrike at the rear end. But now it is being sharply reduced due to worldwide pressure. Not from sheep buyers here. Not from wool buyers. Not from woollen mills producing the material. Not from clothing manufacturers who buy that material but from their customers who demanded garments made in animal-friendly conditions. The pipeline can be long but is very effective. The final arbiter is the customer.

PS: Chinese visitors are the fastest growing sector of the Australian tourism industry. They like our clean, green image as well as kangaroos, koalas and pristine beaches. And they love betting on racing, which is hard to do at home, except at Sha Tin and Happy Valley.

Your Last Paragraph made a little sense Bluce, Re: Chinese visitors! Why scare of the potential Golden Goose?
Off Subject Bluce: Who made this Country the "Greatest". self sufficient, in the 50-90's? Migrants! Italians, Yugo's, Chinese, even Germans, Brits etc. We mined Iron Ore, Copper, Lead, Bauxite, Tin, Coal, Zinc, Gold, Silver, Uranium etc, We Manufactured, exported, Electricity was taken as Granted, As was Gas, Petrol, Water, Milk etc. All taken for granted. What happened Bluce?
Enter Politicians, their Academic Advisors, Global Markets, & Deregulation! And this is Fact!
My point being Bluce? Politicians & Academics are Destroying our Industry. Happy to have you sit back and watch! not Interfere!

It's very difficult to follow your rant and its rapid fire changes of subjects so I will respond to just one point - "Politicians & Academics are Destroying our Industry".

First, the industry is not being destroyed but I would agree it is being put in danger.

Second, a few politicians have shown they do not like greyhounds or greyhound racing. Most have not - in fact, those in Qld and Victoria plus some in NSW have said the reverse.

Third, to the extent that the industry is being "destroyed" it is the fault of a limited number of trainers and trial track operators in three states. In each cases, the offenders included top of the line people who might otherwise have been seen as role models. No ifs, no buts.

As for your accusation that Academics are responsible - that is unsupportable rubbish. Their only formal involvement was to advise GRNSW of the nature of live baiting as well as possible alternatives. GRNSW and others then made decisions.

Of course, you might well have included top public servants, lawyers and ex-policemen in your blame list because all of them made pretty dumb contributions to the debate - infinitely worse than any academic.

(Terry, the "l" is on the right hand side of the keyboard, "r" is over to the left. Are you dictating to a Japanese stenographer? However, I congratulate you on not using an incorrect apostrophe for plural nouns, as is the general practice on this website, and often elsewhere in the greyhound world).

BTW Who were the "Top Line People" found guilty in NSW? Bruce
And yes Bruce, Lawyers & Top Pub/Serv are included in my Academic list? Where do you place them?

Why don't you just come out and say - "You are mostly illiterate dumbo Wallys".
Same thing, Bwwwwuce.
You call it "Verballing", don't you?
You would be in good company of Baird's cronies.
Many times you have denigrated Greyhound participants, yet you scream like a sooky banshee with a broom up its a$$ when you get a little tickle back.

Yes, you are a funny man, Bwuce.

You remind me of someone...

EXTERNAL LINK

So FFS stop saying "the public"..

No, I prefer accuracy.

Obviously, the Greens are a big hassle because they have a microphone and want to change the world. I doubt they will change their minds about greyhound racing over the next million years but their silly statements have to be nullified. In non-greyhound areas most of the public has already done that. We have not. We have been reactive rather than proactive.

However, there are a number of reasons why you might care about the general public.

1. They vote.
2. Politicians will listen to them more than they listen to you.
3. Many of them will influence local Councils who often control the tracks we race on.
4. Newspapers will listen to public complaints more than they will listen to knowledgeable greyhound people telling the truth. The ABC even more so.
5. The public are potential owners, trainers, punters and supporters of the industry.
6. Selected portions of the public are paying your wages.
7. Every bit of research I have seen (there are not many) shows that the public (usually around 67%) have a wrong and negative impression or opinion of greyhound racing. (Incidentally, this does not include the McHugh Commission which talked lots about "public expectations" but conducted no research to verify that).
8. Generally, racing authorities pay little attention to the public unless something smacks them in the face. That describes the Hogan reaction to the Killing Fields. To be ahead of the game you must keep track of what the public thinks and does.
9. They own dogs.

If I think of more points I will let you know.

btw, show me the No7 research...

High praise indeed.

Actually, there are some well educated blokes in the training ranks. It's just that few of them bother to contribute here. Even then, once they move out of their speciality they tend to struggle - as we all do. That's why I never talk about the mechanics of training or breeding but I am always interested in what learned people have to say. Still, I find a good guide is to grade responses according to the number of abusive words used. I learn nothing from them but neither do the speakers.

Similarly, people like ex-chairman Percy Allan (and V'Landys, various state Ministers and several others) made rash statements about banning corporate bookmakers when they clearly had not studied the subject or the business, legal and political ramifications.

My guess is that training is such a demanding 24/7 role that they don't get much opportunity to bone up on other subjects. Hence I try to throw in a few pearls of wisdom for discussion here and there, and to provide some balance. A lifetime of dealing with Ministers, government departments, commissions and qangos helps me do that (although, curiously, some might class that claim as narcissism).

We are here today because PAW and Eberand used poor judgement, not because they are crooks in the usual sense of the word. These are fairly cluey fellas although I did object to Eberand's appointment (and would have done to Wheeler's long ago) simply because they are unavoidably subject to conflicts of interest. That principle has contributed to the industry's woes over several years.

I hear many calls for more transparency in this industry. With that comes a need to consider and assess all offerings, whether or not they fit your own version of things.

Don't know if he's right or wrong with those figures...but...wouldn't want a referendum on our sport...

Re you last long paragraph - that's what I said, too. We agree.

The major difference is that you made the point by being personally abusive while I made the point a general one.