Sadly, there are lots of things I don't know - breeding or training a greyhound for a start. But I am always interested in stories on those subjects.

Anyway, here's a story and a perspective about tracks. Way back I was concerned that the odd dog was thrown off its stride when rounding the home turn at the old Geelong track. When I finally made it there I did my usual walk-around to see if I could spot anything odd that might explain the problem. It took a while but, down on my hands and knees, I came upon a small but significant dent in the surface. Further checking revealed that the water truck was parked nearby, behind the 700m boxes, and always drove onto the track at the above critical point. The club changed the route and the problem disappeared.

There was also a similar but different hassle a third of the way around the main turn at Parklands. Dogs racing abreast always had trouble maintaining an even course (same on the old grass track). I walked that, too, along with the manager but neither of us could identify the culprit. Happily, though, it was not hard to see why dogs often ran off on the home turn (sometimes going out of camera range). The answer was clear - it was too flat, in deference to what had been the start for discontinued 732m races. Bad levels!

Incidentally, do you know the run from the GCST 450m start was downhill all the way to the turn. Very unusual.

Do you do walk-arounds Terry? I recommend them as they often tell you stuff you can't see from a distance or in the film. It does not take much to upset a dog flying around at top speed. Rhythm is everything. All this info helps complete the story in my database.

One of the truisms of a greyhound race is that dogs don't much like being asked to do complicated jobs. They are busy enough trying to dodge other runners and find out where the bunny is. Consequently, those folk who had a brainwave and started indenting the rail just prior to the turn proper (Wenty, Bulli, Maitland, Launceston and the old Cannington) actually made the job even harder, hence either increased interference or more dogs running off. Launceston and Cannington are heavily biased in favour of the inside railer. A National Championship and a couple of Easter Eggs were also won that way. Maitland increased winners from 1, 2 and 8 after its change.

A turn within a turn is never a good idea. KISS is necessary.

No Bruce I don't walk tracks! Mainly because Clubs, Track Staff would be overwhelmed if EVERY Trainer was allowed this privilege.
I did ask some years ago to walk my dog around Sandown, before the Launching Pad heats! Your got to be Joking? they said.(After driving 9 hrs).
No Track is perfect Bruce! Drainage, Sprinklers, Water Courses under ground, Seepage. But every dog traverses the same course.
No one asks Trainers if they are Happy with racing surfaces!

Since you asked - there is no charge for this advice.

I would not touch the Gold Cup with a barge pole. The quick backup is always an issue but usually not as severe at Albion as it is the easiest distance race around. Quite a lot of good 600/650 racers can run it out if they jump well.

I thought both those dogs looked a bit strange in the heats - reasons unknown - particularly Tornado after a moderate start. BGC710 can be tricky as the first turn is poorly cambered (partly because of the adjacent 600m start) so it would be unlike their previous tracks.

Ebby Ripper is not ideally suited to all the above while the better Queenslanders usually take it in turns to win. Heat times were OK but not spectacular so they are not a great guide.

Obviously Tornado is by far the best dog but it will probably be favourite again and you will have to take it on trust, especially as it has jumped moderately at its last two starts. Not value.

No bet.

As for track inspections - never had a knockback but I always go out long before the meeting. Half the managers insist on accompanying me, the other half don't bother. Funny, though, many of them ask me, "Why would you want to do that?" It's a small world sometimes, isn't it?

"No Track is perfect Bruce!" Exactly. That's why it helps to know where they are not perfect. For the punter stuck with an iffy start, he can put a line through it and bet elsewhere. Often the trainer does not have such freedom, depending on location and prize money so he has to lumber it. (But see PAW and Wenty). For example, at the above BGC600 start the one box actually points into the rail so that dog has to veer right before setting course. If it jumps well it's not too bad. If it doesn't, it's squashed into the rail. Bend starts are never easy but that makes it harder again.

The only other trip that works like that is CANB440 which is an absolute horror. Still, the Dapto 520m start is also a hassle - note how the inside two dogs normally move to the right after the jump (a result of siting the boxes along the line of the rail - the entire track should have been moved a few metres north long ago).

On Fanta Bale - I can't remember the detail now but you were not a subscriber so why should I tell you in advance? How many trainers hand out tips on arrival at the track? Or even tell us when their dog is not 100% fit (which is a Rule of Racing)?

I often used to be accosted at the local ClubTab by blokes asking, "Got any tips, mate?" simply because I had a formguide in front of me. I always tell them, "Certainly, it's $10 a race" and they go away muttering to themselves. I mean, why should I spend 4 or 5 hours doing the form only to give it all away in 10 seconds?

Anyway, Britton is more cluey than all that. He's made his bed and has no choice but to lie on it. He'll have a fair idea of what his charges are feeling (if he is with them) and so he has no choice but to hope for the best. The punter does have a choice - to bet or not to bet. The tipster has already made his money so he is not fussed at all. The writer who comments after the race can make wise comments after the deed is done (although many don't), perhaps providing readers with info they can use next time. But never take any notice of what state authorities write as you will hear only good news there.

Since you asked - there is no charge for this advice.

I would not touch the Gold Cup with a barge pole. The quick backup is always an issue but usually not as severe at Albion as it is the easiest distance race around. Quite a lot of good 600/650 racers can run it out if they jump well.

I thought both those dogs looked a bit strange in the heats - reasons unknown - particularly Tornado after a moderate start. BGC710 can be tricky as the first turn is poorly cambered (partly because of the adjacent 600m start) so it would be unlike their previous tracks.

Ebby Ripper is not ideally suited to all the above while the better Queenslanders usually take it in turns to win. Heat times were OK but not spectacular so they are not a great guide.

Obviously Tornado is by far the best dog but it will probably be favourite again and you will have to take it on trust, especially as it has jumped moderately at its last two starts. Not value.

No bet.

As for track inspections - never had a knockback but I always go out long before the meeting. Half the managers insist on accompanying me, the other half don't bother. Funny, though, many of them ask me, "Why would you want to do that?" It's a small world sometimes, isn't it?

"No Track is perfect Bruce!" Exactly. That's why it helps to know where they are not perfect. For the punter stuck with an iffy start, he can put a line through it and bet elsewhere. Often the trainer does not have such freedom, depending on location and prize money so he has to lumber it. (But see PAW and Wenty). For example, at the above BGC600 start the one box actually points into the rail so that dog has to veer right before setting course. If it jumps well it's not too bad. If it doesn't, it's squashed into the rail. Bend starts are never easy but that makes it harder again.

The only other trip that works like that is CANB440 which is an absolute horror. Still, the Dapto 520m start is also a hassle - note how the inside two dogs normally move to the right after the jump (a result of siting the boxes along the line of the rail - the entire track should have been moved a few metres north long ago).

On Fanta Bale - I can't remember the detail now but you were not a subscriber so why should I tell you in advance? How many trainers hand out tips on arrival at the track? Or even tell us when their dog is not 100% fit (which is a Rule of Racing)?

I often used to be accosted at the local ClubTab by blokes asking, "Got any tips, mate?" simply because I had a formguide in front of me. I always tell them, "Certainly, it's $10 a race" and they go away muttering to themselves. I mean, why should I spend 4 or 5 hours doing the form only to give it all away in 10 seconds?

Anyway, Britton is more cluey than all that. He's made his bed and has no choice but to lie on it. He'll have a fair idea of what his charges are feeling (if he is with them) and so he has no choice but to hope for the best. The punter does have a choice - to bet or not to bet. The tipster has already made his money so he is not fussed at all. The writer who comments after the race can make wise comments after the deed is done (although many don't), perhaps providing readers with info they can use next time. But never take any notice of what state authorities write as you will hear only good news there.

Oh, I forgot. This thread is about Gosford. It has a lousy first turn, poorly located 400m boxes and an excellent home turn. The 600m start is not ideal but is acceptable. Neither I nor GRNSW nor GBOTA can tell you exactly what to do about the 520m first turn. It needs scientific analysis which we can't yet bring to bear. The 400m boxes should be moved much further around, as I advised GBOTA before reconstruction work started. They ignored the advice.

Bruce you have to much faith in Academics & Scientific analysis. This is Greyhound Racing. We need BIGGER, MORE, ONE TURN tracks. Build the tracks, place the Boxes, in the most advantageous positions. Easy Peasy Campese. (Dont give our Millions to Consultants)

Some good points but nothing new there.

On fitness - you are right, of course, but consider the difference between horses and dogs. One has stronger rules, more carefully applied and a thousand track watchers, reporters and the like ferretting out every little thing. The other has and does very little.

For example, one Easter Egg winner (in the trainer's words) was sick and injured prior to the first heat. It scrambled through, albeit fading in the heat and semi before he got it right for the final. Those words came after the final, not when the problem occurred, thereby breaking the rules and misleading punters. Gallops stewards would have chucked him out on the spot. Greyhound stewards did nothing.

Of course it's for the punters - that's who pays the wages.

As for "Build the tracks, place the Boxes, in the most advantageous positions. Easy Peasy Campese. (Dont give our Millions to Consultants)" - the trouble is that's what has been going on for the best part of a century. That's what produces all the crook layouts. That's what is putting off many cashed up people who realise they have no hope of coming out in front at the end of the year.

You want bung rules. I don't.

Bruce: Bung rules don't impede PUNTERS! Only Owners/Trainers!

How is that breaking the rules, Bruce?

And who was the trainer and dog in question?
Should have no problems naming them as it seems you are quoting from a public statement.

You are in my court now, not the breeding and training arena.

Please grasp the difference between gambling - which is no more than a wild stab at some eventuality over which you have no control - and punting - which is an investment where you assess the probability of an event occurring when you have a reasonable amount of information available to you. For example, one might use a form guide, the other does not.

Trainer stats - no idea who uses them. Obviously not gamblers while they would be unreliable for punter use.

Penetrometers - they have been tried (long ago at The Meadows) but never followed up. I am not surprised because it is at best an argumentative measure. Is a soft track better for a big dog than a small one and, if so, by how much? How important is it in relation to all the other factors that go to influence a dog's chances.

Turnover - in the main turnover has been maintained or increased
due to the addition of more races. Equally (on the basis of many indicators such as Mystery bets or overbet favourites) the proportion of turnover attributable to mugs is increasing while the proportion attributable to genuine punters is declining. The easy availability of phone or other online media has exacerbated that trend. By definition, that embraces an absence of form information and/or the ability to interpret it.

An overall contributor is the continuing decline in pool sizes, coupled with ripoff corporate pricing and policies. Any pool below say $10k is a waste of time - too volatile and unreliable, even with computerised assistance.

Ask yourself what will happen in the future as there is no more space left in the TAB calendar and exotic betting is suffering more and more as a result of short fields - to say nothing of all those overbet favourites. Sometimes I cannot believe number of dogs being sent out at odds-on. A real turnoff.

I have personally had people pay me $1k to $2k for a supply of data which they could then analyse in their own way to fathom how to invest and make a profit. These folk usually come from the big end of town. Without exception they have failed and given it away as a venture.

Anyone wanting to check on notifying injury might see Rule 32 (GA or GRNSW).

Would you mind answering these two simple questions please, Bruce?

The other question is basically how does your above description of the incident contravene the rules of racing?
I'm not talking about what the rules are, I already know them.
I'm asking how the INCIDENT is against them.

Bruce, you haven't answered my question.
I truly don't understand it.
Can you explain the statement you made?

I already have. Please read all posts.

While I am here let me add another one. The trainer retired Miss Grub, stating the he "could not keep patching it up". That's OK but at its previous 3 or 4 starts it had run poorly while still attracting thousands of dollars at the TAB, at prices around the 4/1 or 5/1 mark. Those investors did not know about the patching up, nor did stewards comment at any time. (I did not invest because I watched it carefully and checked the numbers).

Heaven knows how many there are every week!

Anyway, Gosford..... its a long way to Tipperary.