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Martin James Ireland (Verified User) Posts 1128 Dogs 5 / Races 0 27 Jul 2018 10:15
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Paschal Taggart wrote:
Had a look at the Limerick prices. Very , very good, no comparison with non BAGS pricing. Shop punters will be happy. My only question are what can the owner expect to get on and what are the average attendances.
I would say 100/200 Euro you would get on no problem if the dog was not from a stroking kennel. You WILL be graded tightly though so it would take judgement of the opposition as opposed to having 15/20 lengths up your sleeve. We are all betting shop customers now in that we have access to these races on our mobile phones etc.
Kieran I totally respect Marys views. If the owners are happy that is great news. Obviously that is why additional BAGS meetings are being added in substantial greyhound owners areas.
Kevin Lindsay United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 1420 Dogs 10 / Races 7 27 Jul 2018 16:03
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Kieran I don't think I've met you at Tralee but I have met Mary Crotty. I couldn't read what you have written about her without saying on this public forum that she has always had a kind word for me and my dog, been amusing and encouraging in equal measure and is making the best of a situation that is not of her making. There are a lot of things we might wish to change in Irish Greyhound racing but in my humble opinion Mary Crotty isn't one of them.
Kieran Yes I looked at the 2017 results. Again they are claiming a phoney surplus. Tote and bookmaker turnover and attendance figures dramatically down. OK the strike did not help. I am a member of 3 syndicates usually owning about 20 plus dogs. To my horror there is a very good chance that all three will be discontinued. Complete Lack of betting opportunities and doggy friends no longer attending race meetings. None of our syndicate members are interested in BAGS meetings. That is not to say we are right. It could well be that the majority of owners are happy with this form of racing.
Kevin Lindsay United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 1420 Dogs 10 / Races 7 27 Jul 2018 16:27
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Paschal - you have an A4 dog in the back garden and you enter him for a race at your local track and have to wait 4 to 6 weeks to get on the card and then you get beat 6 to 10 lengths by a Novice. You then get the dog graded SIS and get a run every 7 - 10 days and win in A4 grade (no Novices allowed) - in my personal experience this is probably why owners don't complain. I didn't.
Kevin I absolutely understand that the lower graded dogs are catered for in Bags racing. My question is how many owners will stay in the game breeding and buying dogs where there are no crowds, no betting and little excitement. I could well be very wrong. If anyone can explain to me how it is economic to pay bookmakers to stand and not lay bets I will be delighted to know. These track bookmakers cannot lose as they are being paid and they can nick a few quid because the greyhounds are all of the same grade, and form finding is taboo.
Paschal, is it true Bookmakers get 400 EURO JUST for standing at Bags?
Martin James Ireland (Verified User) Posts 1128 Dogs 5 / Races 0 27 Jul 2018 17:39
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Pascal regarding Bookies standing and not laying bets. As I understand it a person at the track working for the Bookmakers is instructed on what Sps to use. Based on form and betting patterns I assume. They instruct the BM on what prices to open up with. I assume there are potentially thousands of potential customers out there in shops on pcs and mobiles.
John O Connell Ireland (Verified User) Posts 223 Dogs 7 / Races 0 27 Jul 2018 18:22
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Kieran I find your posts to Mary Crotty to be extremely offensive to a lady that you obviously dont know. Thank God this is still a free country and Mary Crotty is entitled to race her dogs when and where she wants. Ive known her over thirty five years and I can tell you that she is an absolute lady and she has been involved in dogs all that time. I would suggest you dismount off that extremely high horse that you cant ride and apologize to Mary. Youve just slipped a long way in my estimation, not that it will bother you, but from now on I will regard your posts as mere snowballs which are handed to you to fire without you really understanding the grassroots of the greyhound game.
Martin That makes sense. If it is possible to get millions of punters betting small amounts then the potential for prize money goes through the roof and makes it all worth while. However, the UK owners and trainers have not seen much of the profits from UK Bags ending up in their pockets. On the contrary most trainers are on the breadline whilst the bookmaking chains make millions of pounds profits on greyhound racing. The best margins of any of their business. Used to be 14 per cent guaranteed as opposed to 10 per cent on horse racing. Not to mention the lack of sponsorship for the dogs as opposed to massive sponsorship for the horses. With one notable exception in Ireland that is Boyle Sports. Thank god for John Boyles love of greyhounds. If owners and breeders are concerned about the future of greyhound racing in Ireland they should ask the Board and the Executive to please explain the actual numbers and their forecasts for future years for Irish BAGS. I will be happy to examine thes numbers as I am an ex main Board Director of Paddy Powers and also have an in-depth knowledge of gambling, not always successful and I was Chairman for 10 years and I know the Boards figures inside out. If this is the right strategy I will be more than happy to confirm same. As of now I think their strategy is seriously flawed.
Kieran I find your posts to Mary Crotty to be extremely offensive to a lady that you obviously dont know. Thank God this is still a free country and Mary Crotty is entitled to race her dogs when and where she wants. Ive known her over thirty five years and I can tell you that she is an absolute lady and she has been involved in dogs all that time. I would suggest you dismount off that extremely high horse that you cant ride and apologize to Mary. Youve just slipped a long way in my estimation, not that it will bother you, but from now on I will regard your posts as mere snowballs which are handed to you to fire without you really understanding the grassroots of the greyhound game.
Thank you all for your kind words Lads terrible way to treat a young girl like me ...
Kieran I find your posts to Mary Crotty to be extremely offensive to a lady that you obviously dont know. Thank God this is still a free country and Mary Crotty is entitled to race her dogs when and where she wants. Ive known her over thirty five years and I can tell you that she is an absolute lady and she has been involved in dogs all that time. I would suggest you dismount off that extremely high horse that you cant ride and apologize to Mary. Youve just slipped a long way in my estimation, not that it will bother you, but from now on I will regard your posts as mere snowballs which are handed to you to fire without you really understanding the grassroots of the greyhound game.
I totally agree with John on this post is find that the post by kieran Boles is highly offensive to Mary Crotty I've known Mary Crotty for a long time She is one of the most genuine greyhound people u will ever meet Mary loves the dogs and is kind and helpful at all times it is people like Mary that the industry needs Mary is a very likeable lady and no racism with her long that u Mary may continue to enjoy ur racing with ur friends and I know that if u are ever in desperation that you have lots of friends
Mary, someone I respect (Claire Hanley) just berated me for my posts so if I offended you then I apologise.
Probably threw the toys out of the pram yesterday because of the IGBs 2017 annual accounts, (which are an absolute disgrace), with the excuse moving from the Recession to the Shelbourne strike and Brady costing nearly 30k per month.
Arlene Moore just pointed out on Facebook that the Tote Turnover figure includes the media streaming rights (SIS) bags deal which makes the decline of the Tote Turnover even more unbelievable. The figures prior to 2017 never included SIS deals.
Remember that the Tote for horse racing is now doing over 100 million pa. In 2007 the Tote for greyhounds and horses was the same; around 50 million. Due to technology and inflation the greyhounds should now be doing the same i.e. 100 million which would provide proper prize money and welfare. Greyhound owners and breeders need to demand the same standards as the HRI.
Imo Bags racing offers no long term benifits... irish handing over control to sis / bags/ bookies...and leads to poor quality racing ..poor attendance...decline in tote retained revenue and increasing profits for large bookmakers ...also leads to poor breeding...Ireland is world renowned for its quality...I would love to keep it that way!! ...but the point some are missing is where is the drive to promote the industry increase retainable revenue .. obtain our own tv racing streaming ..with tote betting increasing prize money far beyond bags or sis 20 to 50 euro....things could be done different to achieve so much more...i see this as selling our family silver / our resources to benifit big bookmaker firms...who will control the game to favourably to minimise their risk and maximize their profit and power..just my own opinion (long term vision)...where is The Ambition??
Kieran I have to agree with every point you have made. I am involved with eight people who have been in the game for many decades. They are super enthusiasts and have spent substantial monies on their number one hobby. They are all considering giving up the sport they love almost completely. Unfortunately not one of their offspring are actively involved in greyhound racing. They nearly all love a bet but now it is on soccer, golf, horses and GAA. Never greyhound racing. A youngish friend of mine had over twenty syndicates going over a decade ago. Now he is struggling to have one. Why because they cannot have a bet. Paying bookmakers to chalk odds that they cannot lay is in my opinion pure rubbish. Not the bookies problem just no punters. Of course the owners of A4 dogs want BAGS as they can run frequently and win useful money. However, if the rest of the greyhound meetings have very poor odds and few punters then I do not see a future. Shelbourne on a Saturday night will always be the exception but what about the other 16 tracks. Again I ask if the Board think BAGS racing is the future of greyhound racing in Ireland then show us the numbers and the projections.
Martin James Ireland (Verified User) Posts 1128 Dogs 5 / Races 0 30 Jul 2018 06:06
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Two SIS regulars ran on Saturday night in Mullingar. Abbey ville Blue 100 plus races and North of 8000 Euro in prize money. Flicker Fusion owned by the Owl syndicate delighted her owners with her 16 th win. With 16 seconds and 18 third placings she is now closing in on 7K in winnings. Calls for 40/50 Euro just to turn up causes concern amongst the smaller kennels. They feel that it that came to pass owners or trainers with the capacity to provide for example 6 plus dogs per meeting would arrive on the scene.
Wow, Ive had racing greyhounds for many years and only a couple have made more than 5k in prize money. I cant afford big bets so prize money/ breeding is what keep it all going. Lucky if break even but its a hobby for me...
martin james wrote:
Two SIS regulars ran on Saturday night in Mullingar. Abbey ville Blue 100 plus races and North of 8000 Euro in prize money. Flicker Fusion owned by the Owl syndicate delighted her owners with her 16 th win. With 16 seconds and 18 third placings she is now closing in on 7K in winnings. Calls for 40/50 Euro just to turn up causes concern amongst the smaller kennels. They feel that it that came to pass owners or trainers with the capacity to provide for example 6 plus dogs per meeting would arrive on the scene.
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