Shaune,

Perth perhaps? They are a bit short of dogs at the moment.

Anyway, I was talking about the principle of the thing. I understand Menangle does OK for really big events but not for anything else. And where in Greater Sydney will you find open roads?

Your roads comment also belies the fact that huge (40k to 80k) crowds now patronise the Olympic area for a wide variety performances (which is why they built the train station). Rail to Rosehill (and Flemington) is also a popular option.

However, we are all waffling about the unknown. What I can say is that if you site the track to suit trainers, that's who will make up the crowd. And if you site something "a bit further west" you will force fans going to evening meetings to travel in the worst part of the day for car crashes and traffic jams. I don't think so.

You may ask "What fans?". Sure, but that's the real problem. For a variety of reasons, especially when the sit-down money runs out, if you can't generate new fans over the next five years then you can halve everything that is happening today - owners, trainers, dogs, breeding, races, income. Everything except the bureaucracy.

Now, that could happen regardless of the fans, but without growth in that area it's a certainty. And, along that route, GRNSW will have to run the risk of "trading while insolvent" (technically, anyway). Downsizing is a risky way to go.

The bonus that comes with a growth in fan numbers is that it helps with political power and therefore relegates the antis further to the fringes.

Shaune,

Precisely; you're right, As I said, that's the problem. But let's not confuse the two issues. One is to select a location with the right potential. The other is to attract people to the entertainment.

Since 1990 (when SKY got up a head of steam - coincidently under the bloke who went on to run the Panthers), both clubs and state authorities have largely stopped promoting the industry. They took the cargo cult route - sit back and the money will roll in.

Gradually, particularly in the last decade, the big spenders faded away, mugs in pubs (mostly youngish) took their places, authorities added races (which helped sustain turnover), the TAB catered to those mugs (Mysteries etc) thereby weakening the integrity of the betting market, the corporates charged rip-off prices, and simultaneously the overall racing product deteriorated. To some extent, online betting access has helped those mugs invest lots of small amounts but on four-legged poker machines.

One example of the degraded racing product has been often discussed on these pages - the decline of staying capability (nominate your own reasons). Another is higher frequency racing amongst dogs of moderate ability. Another is the rise in the proportion of riskier sub-400m races. Another is racing for slow (and therefore inconsistent) dogs in Tier 3 and Class C.

While your comment about small fish in a big pond is true in part it also skips over the fact that greyhounds have many more races than the other two codes.

What it boils down to is that all these negatives are capable of reversal if only someone accepted that as a target.

The video shop industry has collapsed due to technological change and the arrival of more varied and more convenient devices. You now pay big bucks for mobile phones (once banned at the races). SUVs have replaced sedans. T20 cricket has uncovered new fans. Tennis racquets are light years ahead of the old wooden types, thereby producing enormous power. Movie theatres became multi-choice complexes, often in shopping centres. Footie stadiums have improved markedly and will do more of the same if Gladys has her way. Bus and tram conductors have gone. So have bookies.

All the while, greyhound racing is doing pretty much what it did in 1990, even 1950 when you address organisational structures.

That aside, the real problem with your points is that trainers are incredibly valuable but they do not bring fresh money to the game. They recycle lots of it and they take a fair bit out. But only new punters can generate higher incomes and prosperity. So find some or risk cutting the industry in half.

I also suggested which got some support, was the Blacktown area which was developed for the Olympics...plenty of land there infrastructure there, M7 there, 2 close train stations there, Rooty Hill RSL not far...WORTH LOOKING AT IT AGAIN...???

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blacktown+International+Sportspark/@-33.770387,150.853256,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xf017d68f9f12390!8m2!3d-33.7705946!4d150.8549883?hl=en-US

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I think that's more or less what many of us have been saying. The population centre of Sydney has long since moved past the traditional point (Parramatta) but that does not invalidate the choice of any spot between the CBD and Penrith, especially so after 2026 when Badgery's Creek airport opens - that will prompt a huge re-focus on and in the western half of the city.

There are now five major footie teams in three codes doing well in the area west of Parramatta (five if you assume the Eels will come good). They attract good and enthusiastic crowds. Anywhere that happens you can also assume the potential for a greyhound location exists. But it requires two things: a big shift in management philosophy and lots of cash.

Currently, the outlook for greyhound operating surplus/profit is terrible, but is theoretically capable of improvement. And capital funding (outside the $31m track grants) is possible only if government buys us out of Wenty or, less likely, we can build a commercial case sufficient to convince a bank or an investor (or even V'Landys).

None of this will happen under the existing management structure.

None of this will happen without the availability of a financial whizz.

In 2023, check back and see if I am right or wrong.

PS: Not Richmond, please. Leave it to the Air Force.

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I am obviously biased in my opinion here as my girl is a stayer. I was finally able to race her in NSW again and then her favourite track, that actually has a proper staying trip, is out of action.

Even when Wenty is back because of the million dollar race there will be 3 Saturday meetings in September/October where half the meetings are taken up with the million dollar race and 2 in October where it could be the whole meetings taken up with the million dollar race.

That would be ok if Wednesday metro prizemoney was good but as we know it isn't.

How are we meant to prepare our dogs when they keep changing things on us with very little notice?

They know what they are doing , they had genius's from UTS come and tell them what to do , even though they probable had never seen a greyhound in there life, so that's who we are listening to for the redevelopment ...(god help us)..

""GRNSW advises that due to ongoing remedial works at Wentworth Park which includes the upgrade of the track cambers in line with recommendations from the UTS,""

Hardly fair. UTS offered GRNSW a number of options in its interim report - repeat interim - all with the proviso that more evidence and more testing was needed. Read Chapter 6.

GRNSW are prone to jump to conclusions with half-baked programs, as they have with every construction job they approached over the last 10 years or so. Or, they let GBOTA and NCA get away with similar sloppy jobs at Gardens and Gosford and gave them a rubber stamp.

As someone else mentioned, the Goulbourn 450m/440m mess was another example of incompetence (even though they dragged the Chair and the Minister down there to cut the ribbon).

However, in my view, by far the greatest offense is occurring now - working on the state's flagship track without telling anyone what is happening, or why. Then, when the bluff was called, they issued a media release giving us 10% of the story. That is arrogant and insulting.

The same has been happening with Gosford.

If it is any consolation, GRV is no better. They built a brand new track at Traralgon without bothering to ask for public comment on the design. Now you have three bend starts there plus a very high rate of race falls.

These people are supposed to be responsible to the public, the customers and the participants for what they do. Yet the culture they have adopted demonstrates the opposite. As it always has.

I live in hope they will eventually be moved into the 21st century (probably kicking and screaming).

This was always going to happen given the scope of works. So not sure what grnsw/GBOTA were thinking initially?
From the latest update on the dogs website, they are still considering moving the 520m boxes ...is this all going to be resolved in a week is it?!

Not to mention, theres supposed to be a $1 million race there pretty soon. What if the changes are not conducive to better racing & they have to revert back to the original layout??

I find they are cutting things a bit thin given the circumstances.

Widening of the first corner and camber..

Geoff,

It is not in the nature of greyhound authorities to let out any more information than is absolutely essential. "we'll tell you what's good for you".

This is why we found out about (unknown) Wenty changes only when a trainer noticed work going on - not from GRNSW.

Hence, $1.2m is going into upgrades at Goulbourn for who knows what. That is on top of the $0.7m they spent there recently on another upgrade, including the botched 450m start and a flat home turn. For that earlier job, the Minister and the GRNSW Chair were there to cut the ribbon.

Gosford work is ticking along - apparently - no idea what for.

GRV launched into a brand new Traralgon track, asked nobody and got three bend starts and a lot of race falls. They also rebuilt the 511m bend start at Sale, replacing it with a 520m bend start, but forgot about a poorly cambered home turn. Warrnambool is about to re-open after some months closure to fix ... what? We know the kennels needed an upgrade but that's about it.

RQ has long refused to admit to or fix the horrible bend starts at Albion and Ipswich.

WA looked everywhere and decided to install a bend start for Cann600m - despite objections.

The big exception is GRSA, which posts regular updates on the progress of the new Murray Bridge track - together with plans and pictures. Wonderful. Even so, it will have a 530m bend start.

After years of observing this stuff, the only answer I can come up with is that if they don't offer details there will be nothing to criticise.

The first task of a bureaucracy - and they are all bureaucracies - is to head off awkward questions, especially anything that might go to the Minister. So far, they are succeeding.

You can always complain to the Minister, but he will refer it to the bureaucracy, who will tell him there is nothing to worry about, and he (or his offsider) will write back to you saying exactly that.

Here's an example. A year ago I wrote to all Ministers, including in WA, pointing out that the industry was facing severe problems with dog numbers and other matters. The WA Minister kindly wrote back stating that the problem was elsewhere and nothing to do with WA. So check out what's happening today at Cannington - fewer races, fewer dogs, short fields and lots of short races, even in the prime Saturday slot!

Vive la revolution!

520 being reduced is untrue
Higher camber definitely
Maybe boxes shifted out to give a straighter angle line leading into the first bend
Not 100% sure about 3rd point.

This was in a GRNSW press release.
"While the repositioning of the 520m starting boxes is under consideration in line with recommendations, at this stage, the start will remain in its current position."