The judge's prime job is to determine finishing order. The time is secondary. If he can visually establish a difference between two dogs' noses on the screen then he so decides. Note, he can expand the picture and look from both directions.

You are then comparing the difference between one hundredth of a second on the timer and whatever physical gap there was between the two dog's noses. If the latter was greater than the former then he can still decide the placings but may be forced to give them the same time. (Note: in maths, 42.495 or 42.504 converted to two places both show as 42.50).

It happens almost every day of the week.

The major variables are the quality of the gear being used and the size/integrity of the screen or - in some circumstances - the alignment of the camera to the winning post (is it at precisely 90 degrees?). Note also that if you expand the race picture on your home screen you might easily get a more blotchy image. Similarly, Vic pictures are far superior to Wenty's on my screen.

However, the position is a bit sillier in Victoria where they publish three decimal places. In theory that allows them to be definitive about the order and the actual time. But it is a statistical nonsense because it assumes that all the other race parameters are also tuned to one thousandth of a second, which is simply not true - eg the lid release is unlikely to be so precise as it is an electro-mechanical device. The width of the vertical line on the Finishlynx screen would also come into play.

You should have been around when they had only one decimal place to work with. Or even no decimal places. Or no camera. Horse races once started when the official lowered a flag. So we have achieved much but all good things come to an end.

NB: Tasmanian horses, some experimental Melbourne dog races and odd footballers use GPS buttons attached to the rugs/jerseys. The former are employed to set up sectional times, the others to track actual movements during the event. On the other hand, predicting the trajectory of a cricket ball for an lbw decision may be more debatable - once again, it is a forecast based on multiple camera technology but with restricted data input. Perhaps better than nothing? Not sure. Anyway, of all these the racing finish is probably the most satisfactory of them all.

You are then comparing the difference between one hundredth of a second on the timer and whatever physical gap there was between the two dog's noses. If the latter was greater than the former then he can still decide the placings but may be forced to give them the same time. (Note: in maths, 42.495 or 42.504 converted to two places both show as 42.50). ...

He can and he did...

Here's a bit more perspective - a bit academic but interesting.

In a Warragul Leger heat on Sunday the judge assigned 25.855 to two dogs and made them equal 2nd - Chief's Empire and Pindari Express.

In a Shepparton Cup heat last night Regazzoni managed 25.442 and Bernardo 25.443, therefore placing them 2nd and 3rd.

I don't want to do either judge an injustice but I am going to guess that the human eye cannot differentiate by one thousandth of a second, especially when it is applied via a vertical line on a screen.

I am therefore inclined to conclude that the judges first managed to discern (or not) a fractional space between one dog and the other - thereby establishing the finishing order - and only then assigned a time to both. One is a judgment (fair enough) the other is completely arbitrary.

Either way, science would not support using three decimal places for the above and other reasons. Good management, on other other hand, would support accepting the judges' decisions. GRV should get rid of the 3rd decimal place. It's pointless.

Daryl,

Not really. There are two aspect to consider.

First, I don't dismiss the points Ron is making but remember the judge's primary job is to use his eye to establish the correct placings. To do that he has the assistance of a camera and photo, both of which are mechanical devices which are subject to error as to their operation and placement (certainly so in terms of the one thousandth of a second we are talking about). The judge will then wiggle the vertical lines back and forth and from each side trying to find a difference. But that is all he is doing - wiggling.

The point is that it is eye first, equipment second. He sees a nose and then applies a time to that nose - not the other way round. And so on through the whole field.

The second part of the discussion is that the only measuring stick in the entire race that is tuned to one thousandth of a second is the clock in use. As I indicated earlier, the lid opening (ie the starting of the timing system) or the precise angle of the camera to the post, or any variable quality in the equipment, or vibration in the table it is sitting/mounted on, all offer the potential for errors greater than one thousandth of a second. Timing is a derived outcome, not a primary one.

Sure, lots of cash is in the balance but it is still dependent on the human eye making the primary decision. Just as important might be the establishment of a new track record, which itself has a cash value in the long run.

In the final analysis, whatever outcome you are looking for, it depends solely on the judge's eye, not the timer. To apply the timer alone would be illogical, ie the tail wagging the dog.

Hence my point: the judge can make a correct decision as to finish order but still (correctly) give two runners the same time to two decimal places. Three decimal places take you into fairyland. Not only is it not needed, it is misleading.

You implied that the "timing system ... separated second from third". No, mate, the judge did that using his eye and only later assigned the times.

Incidentally, Finishlynx is not really live action. The data goes into a file which is then available to run back and forth at will. Once again, the worth of that file and data may or may not be top class, depending on the quality of the camera and the gear you are using to look at it.

Further, while I have not checked them for a while, camera angles at Bulli and Shepparton are offset from the finish line. Not sure how they handle those??? Maybe there are others? Parklands at one stage had two finishing posts for several months - another mystery. Even Wenty's main SKY camera was mounted on a tripod but I am not sure if they had another one for Finishlynx to use. Whatever, I doubt you would use any of these in an F-18 to demolish a building 20,000 ft below.

Micky G to base, Micky G to base...affirmative.

EXTERNAL LINK

All of which reinforces my point that 3 decimal places is a nonsense.