To do that I surveyed May to July races in Victoria to see how far the dogs were running. I used Victoria alone because working on other states data can be a real pain due to the inadequacy of the OzChase system. Still, I have no reason to believe the results would be significantly different elsewhere.

Briefly, the answer is shorter and weaker. Compared to a similar but more limited survey I ran in 2007 the proportion of dogs racing in the 500m bracket has declined from 33.7% to 26.8%. Even then, the current figure is overstated because I did not count Healesville straight track races and Warrnambool was out of service for most of the period.

Races shorter than 500m accounted for 64.0% of the total, compared to 54.2% in 2007. Todays longer races recorded 8.9% compared to 12.2%.

The survey covered 3,159 races, or 3,503 if you add in Healesville and Warrnambool.

What to do? Investigate breeding and training practices, together with economic factors, and take action smartly. And forget about distance incentives they have shown to be of no positive value. As someone once said, you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Failure to act must cause a further deterioration in the breeds strength. Nothing stays still.

In short unanswerable, this will turn into a merry go round

just get on with it , most people wouldn't know what happened last week ,

does anyone really give a sh.t what was happening in 2007 ?

look to the future , bigger picture the CLOSE of the industry

To be truthful most times 1/2 the pups can't run or run past 450m strongly, but the difference these days is that we need ALL these pups to race due to the lack of breeding numbers.

In days gone by, these type of pups were either retired or moved on to country racing.

Today they are NEEDED to make up NUMBERS....Which is not a bad thing. We just need to adjust to survive as your stats suggest Bruce.

Keep up the stats ;-)

Some very interesting points here. Probably too many, which is why I suggested serious investigation and review is needed. Plus I am not qualified to speak on breeding, although I can address what comes out of it.

But a couple of detail points:

1. Recently, there has been only one dog in the country that has got within a bull's roar of distance records - Tornado Tears. Otherwise, you might see a flash in the pan occasionally but they will not repeat it. More generally, many 700m times are pathetic.

2. Some years ago a majority of PWL dogs were struggling to get 500m, or even 450m. (I ran an extensive survey of all his dogs over three months and wrote an article about it). So he changed his attack, got some fresh blood and went on to greater things - eg the two top racers/sires of the moment. I conclude that breeding changes are worth thinking about.

Having said that, the real problem is that these fundamental changes are not being addressed by authorities - the only people who have the wherewithal to take corrective action. Indeed, as we found out during the "overbreeding" episode, they do not even understand the question.

This industry depends almost wholly on two things: the maintenance of the breed and the attractiveness of the product. Both can be fragile but neither is getting much attention.

Yes, trainers can deal only with the cards they are dealt. But if they are marked cards then it's time to get a new pack.

Note: In passing, Steven is correct - we do need numbers. However, that shortfall is due to a few things: declining breeding over more than a decade, extra races, live baiting (short term), a failure to promote the industry, a failure to investigate why breeding is in decline, a failure to investigate why the customer profile has changed radically, a failure of "expert" reviews in three states to identify the underlying issues, and the triumphs of bureaucratic behaviour.

Note 2: Fears about the future viability of the industry are valid only to a point, mainly in NSW. However, the other states are reasonably placed to charge ahead if they adopt sensible, progressive policies. Sure, there will be ups and downs but the raw material is there and the form is well declared. There can be no excuses.

Michael,

Can I add some comments to your post.

First line - that's exactly what is happening but is it a good thing or a bad thing? In general, customers prefer longer races.

Second line - probably, but that's the problem; too many are betting on four legged poker machines.

Third line - anyone who cares about progress will care about change. Ford and GM kept building gas guzzlers and it nearly sent them broke. Woolies used to have really crappy fruit and vegetables but today it is their leading advertising subject.

Fourth line - right! So how do you avoid that?

Very true. I watch them every day. But do you want a future where your wages depend on mugs in pubs? And any decent punters left would not touch UBET with a barge pole - not with the small pools. That problem will be eased when they join all the pools but you are still not going to get solid business from serious punters when you offer diabolical and disruptive race starts. I could count on one hand the number of acceptable starts in this country over 400m or less.

RQ has been duckshoving this 400m problem for yonks, whether in Bundy, SEQ or (the most horrible) Townsville.

Anyway, that's getting away from the basic 500/700 subject. It needs national attention if we are not going to end up with an entire population of squibs. Adam Wallish is responsible for development so get on to him. You can tell him I said so.

all races over the shorts, could not get enough dogs to put on a 520 mt race.

keep breeding from 300 m bitches and this is what you get.

if you want to end up with 100 m dash races you are going down that road .

for over thirty years at our local track 1 in five races were over 642 m and only four races over less than 462 m.
even 3 over 825 m on one night
all breeders can do what they want , the lack of stayers is of great concern,

at least your tracks are not closing down.

you can put a post up in 2 years time and let us all know if you have had a winner over 700 or further.

best of luck

Matt

Not saying you are wrong , but everyone seems to focus on the short course bitches being bred with.

I will bet that most city winning 500m+ bitches are also bred with

Why aren't there more 600m+ types racing then?

I think the focus should be switching to the sires that are being used

A bitch can produce up to 17 pups in one mating but a sire from 10 matings can produce up to 170 pup

If a sire's genetic make up is to produce early speed with no stamina beyond 500m then it is likely that very few stayers will be produced regardless of the bitches used

We need to encourage the use of sires that can produce greyhounds that can work their way from 500m -700m in their racing career

We have some sires with this capability, Fernando Bale can get stayers, Dyna Double One, My Bro Fabio, the imports such as Bella Infrared, SH Avatar, Kinloch Bare and other proven locals such as Bekim Bale (but they come with a load of problems), Velocette (I hear there are over 150 vials available for him), Jarvis Bale etc

There are several unproven sires and rarely used sires that could also fit the bill i.e. Alan Deed, Dyna Nalin, Destini Fireball, Radley Bale, Buck Fever, Burn One Down, Zipping Felix etc etc that could be used to build stamina reserves in pups

In Thoroughbred circles in Europe they don't think twice about using their Derby horses, the greatest sire in the world at the current time is Galileo and he was an outstanding stayer

Northern Dancer won up to 2000m

In the USA most of their top sires are the Triple Crown colts and Breeders Cup winners over a mile plus

Using bitches with stamina genes is only half the equation, we need to go full circle with the sires as well

I think you are better off line breeding a sire that was previously successful throwing a distance type or a 600m type with that particular damline, that's if you are looking to add stamina to the offspring whose damline generally throws short course types.

If the sprinting damline you are breeding with, nicks with the sprinting side of the sires damlines you want to put over her, you are likely to get sprinters regardless of the sprinting/staying type of sire you use. You reap what you sow.

Also remember that most litters have all types ranging from short coursers to staying types. So you really need to know your damline in terms of types that it's previously thrown and more importantly to which sire it has thrown say strong or staying types to, then be very specific to linebreeding that sire to the sire of choice(damlines preferably), whether it's proved to be a sprinting type or staying type on the track, in order to sway that litter type to hopefully your desired outcome.

All very true ......
But your asking the clients of the industry to fork out 50k a pop to raise litters to race on tracks (not designed for these traits ) or jump from hazardous boxes 8 out 10 races and go home after 3 years in the making frustrated as hell with empty pockets to match......only to say ,oh well , atleast we added to the strength %'s pool !

As they say ! Build it and they will come .......
Build tracks that advantage the ones that have the ability to storm home , or should I say atleast make it a level playing field !
At present you need first section rockets and sit back and watch the collisions !

Until then , Poeple need and deserve a return with what's being offered to them to work with !
That's shithouse box starts , kamakaze first turns on city tracks and many more with a surface that advantages leaders !

It ain't rocket science
Good luck my bro Fabio ,djays octane ,DDO ,Kinloch and bekim bale
You will always underachieve

While magic sprite ,fabregas and el grand senor take the chocolates whilst getting a free leg up !

It's not even a debate , its embarrassing

You make a lot of points but most of them support the longer distance dog 500m+ over short coursers

LESS cheating(on the arm)...

MORE testing...

Adding to better scruples...

scruple
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noun
a moral or ethical consideration or standard that acts as a restraining force or inhibits certain actions.

Will anyone else plan to use him?

Will anyone use Torndao Tears?

No one has bothered to use his uncle, Space Star, once touted as one of the fastest and strongest dogs on the planet.

Echelon has had 2 litters to race

This one, Dark Tyde, is out of a Where's Pedro bitch who won up to 600m on city tracks

But being closely inbred to Where's Pedro, will it shorten him up

So far a 390m winner at Shepparton in 22.20, where he romped away from them when on the bunny

Will be interesting to see how far he gets

CLICK HERE

There are staying genes in abundance, but they are going to waste

My point is we are all here talking about how to fix the apparent problem of genetic decline in distances and the possible solution and why has this happened
I said firstly IMOP the sport is cleaner,thus giving true results (like it or not )
Then I pointed out that Kinloch Bekim DDO My bro djays Radley bale Jarvis bale
And to further the point any of their sons will under achieve in stats and results as their traits are strength (your going to get a few hard luck stories or tough runs not rewarded,as compared to lid pinging first sectional demons such as magic sprite el grand and fabregas ....... which our tracks (agree or not )are more suited to eg track surface speed /box starting positions (hazardous)and corner camber issues note which is being modified at present on our glory city track right at this present time !.......hence the 3 later sires I suggested get the free leg up before a lid is even raised and to boot we are meant to ask clients or ourselves to go against all these issues and breed for the "strength litter "
Poeple need returns on their 50k invested in litters , going to as you suggested certain sires probably ain't gonna get you your long awaited return
Thoroughbred racing goes on avg for 1min 22sec to 2 min, not pointing out the obvious but every sec a journey is longer the closer or more chance of the true result coming to the surface . Greyhound racing is 30 sec , there is no time for dogs to settle and find their position in running , this only points out further that track /boxes and camber need to be fair for ALL breeds
Build the tracks to a level playing field that cater for this ...... might happen ???
Until then speed is key and rewarded