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Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15482 Dogs 0 / Races 1 05 Sep 2018 05:47
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Was viewing a pt at Grafton Monday night,the guy driving the lure would have to be classed as a hoon, who has the lure 20/ odd m in front of a young dog doing a pt.WTF. Have a look and tell me your view.
Was viewing a pt at Grafton Monday night,the guy driving the lure would have to be classed as a hoon, who has the lure 20/ odd m in front of a young dog doing a pt.WTF. Have a look and tell me your view.
"Bad Lure Driver" "Hoon"
Ok Jack you want my view so I will give it to you but firstly I will declare my part in this as being the guy who taught him to drive the lure. So my association has been declared.
Was it his best drive? No. Was it a bad drive? No. Was it worthy of your sensational headline and personal attack? Absolutely not.
Maybe you want to go back have another look and reconsider your sensationalism on this occasion considering the following.
The lure driver has established a gap from the boxes and allowed the greyhound to then come to him which is a much better option than dropping the greyhound straight on the lure hoping to guess how hard the greyhound is going to accelerate and hoping to get the acceleration of the lure to be identical. If you don't do this you are in danger of being caught or having the lure too close to the dog. If you get it too close you then have to drive the lure away from the dog to establish the correct gap. Talking about young dogs the last thing you want to do is start increasing the gap on the dog after having established it. That is when young dogs as you say can lose interest and decide that it is too hard and turn back.
The hardest drive for any lure driver is your first drive of the day and being the first trial before the race meeting if any mistake is going to be made it will be this trial.
You ascertain the lure was 20 metres in front of the dog? Well have another look. The distance between the light posts inside the running rail at Grafton is 8 metres around the bend and 6 metres in the home straight. Maybe you can use those dimensions and check your maths.
Jack the young bloke driving the lure is a good young bloke and not deserving of your classification as a hoon. You don't know him and I know you have never met him.
So Jack have another look, do some real maths and come back with an honest updated version of events, a reassessment of your 20 metres and perhaps some humble pie and maybe even an apology because I think it is deserving.
Maybe the calculations are a bit on the big side ? But what distance do you think the lure was clear of the dog ? I only replied to this as Jacks getting his head bitten off for his opinion ! He's already had a call from an official of the Grafton Track who launched a personal attack on him !
distance from leading greyhound (1) The lure shall be controlled so as to be positioned at all times during the running of an Event at a distance of not less than 5 metres and no greater than 8 metres ahead of the leading greyhound.
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 06 Sep 2018 01:28
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Brad Ellis wrote:
Jack Ogilvie wrote:
Was viewing a pt at Grafton Monday night,the guy driving the lure would have to be classed as a hoon, who has the lure 20/ odd m in front of a young dog doing a pt.WTF. Have a look and tell me your view.
"Bad Lure Driver" "Hoon"
Ok Jack you want my view so I will give it to you but firstly I will declare my part in this as being the guy who taught him to drive the lure. So my association has been declared.
Was it his best drive? No. Was it a bad drive? No. Was it worthy of your sensational headline and personal attack? Absolutely not.
Maybe you want to go back have another look and reconsider your sensationalism on this occasion considering the following.
The lure driver has established a gap from the boxes and allowed the greyhound to then come to him which is a much better option than dropping the greyhound straight on the lure hoping to guess how hard the greyhound is going to accelerate and hoping to get the acceleration of the lure to be identical. If you don't do this you are in danger of being caught or having the lure too close to the dog. If you get it too close you then have to drive the lure away from the dog to establish the correct gap. Talking about young dogs the last thing you want to do is start increasing the gap on the dog after having established it. That is when young dogs as you say can lose interest and decide that it is too hard and turn back.
The hardest drive for any lure driver is your first drive of the day and being the first trial before the race meeting if any mistake is going to be made it will be this trial.
You ascertain the lure was 20 metres in front of the dog? Well have another look. The distance between the light posts inside the running rail at Grafton is 8 metres around the bend and 6 metres in the home straight. Maybe you can use those dimensions and check your maths.
Jack the young bloke driving the lure is a good young bloke and not deserving of your classification as a hoon. You don't know him and I know you have never met him.
So Jack have another look, do some real maths and come back with an honest updated version of events, a reassessment of your 20 metres and perhaps some humble pie and maybe even an apology because I think it is deserving.
Regards, Brad.
As you said Brad the Lure drive was far from a good drive ... Speaking from experience having driven the lure at Snappers years ago and doing some driving at Mannings years ago ..... the lure speed the run up is slowed and accelerated once the dogs speed is corrected .... The speed was way to fast early for a PT trial ...simple The speed was adjusted way to fast to drop back to the correct distance and speed but coming for home the drive was ok ..as you said people make mistakes ..
BUT For Jack to now get attacked for voicing his opinion is not the way it works ..
To read someone from the club rang Jack to voice his opinion is not on and maybe you guys better keep away from social media if these kind of comments affects you .. This is a forum with interactive participants and each has the right to VOICE any concern they see fit .. You either agree or disagree
I agree with jack and yourself Brad it was a below average performance ....but the dog got around safely so that's a bonus i guess
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15482 Dogs 0 / Races 1 06 Sep 2018 01:30
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As warren said my calculations might have been a bit off. Maybe it was 12m/15 m which is far more than the distance of 8m It should be .I have had two phone calls from trainers who agreed with my comments that they have had issues with the lure driver at Grafton,naturally they won't go on the forum and state their opinions. I understand people defending staff ,but when you see so many young dogs turning it up these days .As a part owner in the said dog ,I feel I'm allowed my opinion like every one else.well if the club and the stewards are happy about the trial why should I complain. Are they?.
You are right it is being blown out of shape but it started right from the title of this thread.
Based on the 8 metre distance between the light posts on the bend when the lure first comes into sight shortly after the dog hits the corner I put the distance at 10 metres settling into 8 metres shortly after.
Now it could have varied 1 metre or so here and there during the course of the trial (which is natural) but there was certainly no effect on the dog (which went nicely) and certainly no need for the young fellow who has only been driving races for four months to be labelled as he was by Jack.
The young fellow is doing a good job in what is a thankless position. He will continue to improve the longer he drives for but if that is as bad as he ever drives then I think he will be just fine.
I can see both sides of this, PT trials are only pups so should be driven as they may pull up, on the other hand I'll always wait 2 to 3 trials before I trial as the lure driver has to settle in to his rhythm ..
Brad ! we have no beef with the lure driver glad he's happy doing a job that gets plenty of stick but that comes with the game ! slow the lure down though the first section and all will go ok ! That's only my opinion.
Brad ! we have no beef with the lure driver glad he's happy doing a job that gets plenty of stick but that comes with the game ! slow the lure down though the first section and all will go ok ! That's only my opinion.
Cheers Warren. No worries.
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6018 Dogs 0 / Races 0 06 Sep 2018 06:01
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Brad Ellis wrote:
Warren Kempshall wrote:
Brad ! we have no beef with the lure driver glad he's happy doing a job that gets plenty of stick but that comes with the game ! slow the lure down though the first section and all will go ok ! That's only my opinion.
Cheers Warren. No worries.
Mr. Ellis : Could you please put my name forward, next intake of trainee Lure Drivers. (You can teach an Old Dog) Have a great reference from JC. NO not John Corrigan, the other one. We need to talk CONDITIONS, WAGES, and FRINGE BENEFITS on my next visit.
Jack,to be honest,yes,he did have the lure going quick,but he did rectify that fairly quickly to his credit,i personally think he did the right thing by not dropping the lure back under the dog's nose so to speak,because if he did,it can cause a young dog to ease & lose momentum & far worse still,the dog running into the lure arm.At the end of the day Jack,the dog chased as hard as it could,run the b.o.d,& wasn't affected by "Reggie the rabbit" showing more toe than a Roman sandal in the first hundred of that p/t.(going off that run,that dog has a nice future ),just a case of un-intentional misjudgment,a hoon.. no.
Brad ! we have no beef with the lure driver glad he's happy doing a job that gets plenty of stick but that comes with the game ! slow the lure down though the first section and all will go ok ! That's only my opinion.
Cheers Warren. No worries.
Mr. Ellis : Could you please put my name forward, next intake of trainee Lure Drivers. (You can teach an Old Dog) Have a great reference from JC. NO not John Corrigan, the other one. We need to talk CONDITIONS, WAGES, and FRINGE BENEFITS on my next visit.
BTW They don't Breath/Test lure drivers DO THEY??
Ahh Mr. Jordan it would indeed be an honour but alas I am now long retired. Of course the substantial pay cut that you would be required to undertake could possibly be another stumbling block !!
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15482 Dogs 0 / Races 1 06 Sep 2018 20:53
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Well mr Jordan,during your job interview,insist the 25 year old driving control is updated this was advise from a pm I received from some one who said that could be the problem.so young driver please accept my apology.End of rant. .' Now crawls under rock '
Peter Gurry Australia (Verified User) Posts 9255 Dogs 18 / Races 25 08 Sep 2018 00:31
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A lot of hits but no vision so here it is. EXTERNAL LINK
Everyone is human and makes mistakes, just one of those things. From watching the replay it seems there was a big gap at the jump and the gap closed which is exactly what a young dog needs, it needs to think it has a chance to catch it for the prize at the end of it all and running those times that should be the main focus.
Darren Russell Australia (Verified User) Posts 97 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 Sep 2018 00:42
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Warren Kempshall wrote:
Brad ! we have no beef with the lure driver glad he's happy doing a job that gets plenty of stick but that comes with the game ! slow the lure down though the first section and all will go ok ! That's only my opinion.
totally agree Warren , bring the lure through slower at boxes , not too bad up straight but as I've stated before I do think the lure in most nsw races is way to far in front of leaders and don't zoom it away to at least 30m past post .we have so many dogs putting their heads up as soon as this happens , drive a bit tighter for the dogs .
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