As has been stated tracks vary in times day to day be it climate track prep ,hare driver etc ad infinitum as has been shown on this thread have you compared 520 dogs backing up on same track same meetings(where stayers are backing up too) Bruce? Box draws? weather ? Race time i.e. race number.If Paul Ambrosoli was on 'em?

I omitted to answer your final question. Typically, here are the sort of things I count on (with database help) in assessing a race.

Times on track/distance
Time comparisons with some 400 other trips around Oz
Sectional times on track
Sectional times overall
Distance capability
Track familiarity
Track peculiarities
Track speeds (major venues only)
Box value
Running habits
Recent form
Best form
Fitness - time since last run

Each of those factors then require weighting for importance and for each track.

Then there are intangible items which need personal assessment based on experience and which cannot be sensibly measured. The class of the dog and the field is probably the toughest of those. Its (box) neighbours would be another. Also age/maturity.

The start time of the race may or may not be influential but it is very difficult for someone other than the trainer to guess at its importance. Occasionally, you might know about a bad kennel dog but even then that is very conjectural. Its impact may vary from week to week.

Like most tipsters, I suspect PA made up his tips in the car park. He was also inclined to favour something he had seen do nicely in the last several days. Great guy, though.

However, I listen to all of them as they can sometimes influence prices - particularly the Watchdog.

Bruce you waffle on using selected statistical data (Bull S*&%) to make a case for your argument, when given a chance to back up your case prior to the event you back away. Thats fine lets leave it at that.

By the way any distance greater than 550m is a staying event with the caliber of dogs racing in todays climate. Breeding speed to speed has a case to answer for, just my thoughts.

That's the first $64k question.

The second one is - if not - what do we do about it?

.......The data is not selective but all-in. I used all 83 and 39 runs resp of the referenced dogs. Ryan used just two each....

FGS Bruce, they were YOUR examples. Accept the responsibility for putting them up there to prove your case, and stop wasting my time.
Imagine my shock when I checked those 2 examples to find they also disproved your so called finding. That's all I needed to dismiss this topic.........and two front running stayers at that, meeting your criteria perfectly. You clda knocked me over with a feather.

I just cant believe your arrogance in thinking we're too stupid to check.

btw Bruce, did you know that those 2 examples(Space Star/Xylia), also disproved your case ?

Just to explain a little further - beforehand the form data would be automatically downloaded in a flash from various sources. Then take a few seconds to select the right set of parameters for the trip in question. After that, making the initial race forecast takes the program one second.

Then I can sit back and mull over it - or adjust it.

That's how the rest of the world works - even the gallops but not greyhounds although the GRV data is a pretty good effort. Anything in OzChase is a waste of space as they don't even understand the question.

Consider, for example, that when you flash your credit card over the reader at the supermarket your $50 purchase will be in the Coles account and out of yours in a second. Same thing. You just need a decent system to start with.

Bruce I think the best thing for you to do is put your hand in your pocket buy yourself two greyhounds and you can show everyone how its done because you make it sound so easey.

If I had to look after two greyhounds I would not have time to do all the other wonderful things I do. Happily, other folk have different priorities, for which I am grateful. The mix works.

Aside from that, it is easy up to a point. But, as I said, you need the systems to begin with. You can have a motor car with all sorts of great gizmos but you still need a good driver to get home.

Trainers work with systems that have stood the test of time. If they were not working they would have changed them - and I imagine many have (feeds and medicines, for a start).

While I am pontificating (as someone accused me) the industry has two major assets - a number of good trainers and a number of good dogs. Where it is failing lies in how they utilise those assets, especially beyond 700m.