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GRSA no replays


Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

26 Jan 2019 02:03


 (9)
 (1)


Race 3 today at Angle Park.
The favorite got squeezed and fell, did a few somersaults, got back up, completed the journey, checked by the vet, no injury detected.
Why do GRSA remove the replay from their website and their YouTube channel? They have removed every race where there is a fall for years. Why? Isn't it important for a punter to view the replay to see why a dog fell. Isn't it important for an owner who has a dog in the race to watch the replay to see how their dog went?
But instead of providing a service to those who provide the dogs, GRSA are running scared of the antis.
Wouldn't this be proof that dogs are actually pretty tough animals and they can take a fall? The vet reported no injury, so why hide the video at the expense of owners, punters, fans of the sport.

Thanks to the TAB who have more sense and balls, for leaving the replay on their site. GRSA need to grow some.


Damien Bates
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 127
Dogs 0 / Races 8

26 Jan 2019 02:31


 (3)
 (1)


Couldnt agree more mate. One of our boys took a solid tumble in the state sprint final last year, same thing got up completed the race and got no injury time and the race wasnt posted.



Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

26 Jan 2019 02:49


 (5)
 (1)


Its frustrating for a punter who is not at the track. We like to watch the replay to see where the dog was checked, or if he chose not to take a gap near the rail, did he run home well, etc. Without studying a dogs races, we are just punting blind. Fair enough if there is a serious injury, no-one likes to see that, but in most cases the dogs get up and race again next week. They are very tough animals. They are not made of egg shells


Ashleigh Kay
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 15
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Jan 2019 07:51


 (2)
 (0)


It's so weird that they won't show it on the website but play it on loop in the vet area


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Jan 2019 20:58


 (1)
 (0)


Jamie Quinlivian wrote:

Race 3 today at Angle Park.
The favorite got squeezed and fell, did a few somersaults, got back up, completed the journey, checked by the vet, no injury detected.
Why do GRSA remove the replay from their website and their YouTube channel? They have removed every race where there is a fall for years. Why? Isn't it important for a punter to view the replay to see why a dog fell. Isn't it important for an owner who has a dog in the race to watch the replay to see how their dog went?
But instead of providing a service to those who provide the dogs, GRSA are running scared of the antis.
Wouldn't this be proof that dogs are actually pretty tough animals and they can take a fall? The vet reported no injury, so why hide the video at the expense of owners, punters, fans of the sport.

Thanks to the TAB who have more sense and balls, for leaving the replay on their site. GRSA need to grow some.

I understand antis are mis-using the film and therefore creating bad PR for the industry - hence the removal.


Mark Staines
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4499
Dogs 70 / Races 14

26 Jan 2019 22:33


 (0)
 (0)


So Bruce do you also support the NSW GBOTA ridiculous stance on not using the FOL because in there opinion its a bad image of the Sport ?????


Trevor Furner
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 477
Dogs 36 / Races 13

27 Jan 2019 06:07


 (0)
 (2)


I couldnt agree with you more mate. Its in the best interest for the owners punters etc to see how the dog is and what exactly happened. These dogs are tough buggers and in all honesty animal rights groups really do not have a clue at all but because they are the voters to governments who run industries its a domino affect if or which every time us the greyhound folk will always be the ones who suffer. I understand authorities are trying to protect the sport but your correct some need to grow a set of balls or some need to actually have more knowledge about greyhounds and not get there jobs because they have high achieving degrees from University but not one bit of knowledge about a greyhound. Its a very touchy subject welfare of greyhound racing but I think they really are going in the wrong direction. Victoria will always be a front runner for the industry as it seems they really promote it professionally. Racing in SA has a long way to go and should be more focusing on taking care of its owners and trainers and promoting and marketing our sport better. Yesterdays meeting at Angle Park for instance we had a feature race the track was so wet the dogs were like running in a bog of mud. Good if your a stayer as it will suit those mud runners but front running dogs getting caught out on home straight that normally run the journey out. Ok good for safety having that extra water but if your a punter getting no feedback on state of track whether it was slow or fast. They did say track was running slow during meeting but a bit too late it was. The final of a John Gray feature running it in race ten. Normally I thought feature races would be race 7 or 8 but this was race ten. Unusual for a feature. But in the end a good run final with you could throw a towel over the first three. Congratulations to the winner and all who ran in final. Unfortunate the final was not on a Thursday night due to hot weather but running on a Saturday had no atmosphere at all at track. Lucky I went with family or I would have fell asleep.



Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

27 Jan 2019 07:48


 (1)
 (0)


Bruce Teague wrote:

Jamie Quinlivian wrote:

Race 3 today at Angle Park.
The favorite got squeezed and fell, did a few somersaults, got back up, completed the journey, checked by the vet, no injury detected.
Why do GRSA remove the replay from their website and their YouTube channel? They have removed every race where there is a fall for years. Why? Isn't it important for a punter to view the replay to see why a dog fell. Isn't it important for an owner who has a dog in the race to watch the replay to see how their dog went?
But instead of providing a service to those who provide the dogs, GRSA are running scared of the antis.
Wouldn't this be proof that dogs are actually pretty tough animals and they can take a fall? The vet reported no injury, so why hide the video at the expense of owners, punters, fans of the sport.

Thanks to the TAB who have more sense and balls, for leaving the replay on their site. GRSA need to grow some.

I understand antis are mis-using the film and therefore creating bad PR for the industry - hence the removal.

Please explain in more detail Bruce.
How were the antis mis-using the film.
And while you are making up an explanation, do you think removing the film will appease the antis and make them quiet?
Don't you think that removing the film is ammunition for the antis who can make assumptions why the film has been removed? Surely allowing the public to see a dog get up and finish a race is the best way to show the truth?
Bad PR, you must be kidding. The antis have never relied on facts to create bad PR.



John Little
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 56
Dogs 5 / Races 0

27 Jan 2019 10:08


 (0)
 (0)


had one mt gambier today 512 fell first corner too far away to see the cause. vetted twice no injury finished race.with washing down and vetting no time towatch replay .helpful .not



Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

27 Jan 2019 11:03


 (0)
 (0)


Here you go John.

EXTERNAL LINK
Notice the race caller tell viewers that the dog is back up and chasing?

Here's another thing stupid that SA do.
Johns dog has an official time against his form which now will say he came 42 lengths last. In Vic, the dog would have FELL next to its form.
Yes, that makes a difference to an owner.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

27 Jan 2019 20:20


 (2)
 (0)


Jamie Quinlivian wrote:

Here you go John.

EXTERNAL LINK
Notice the race caller tell viewers that the dog is back up and chasing?

Here's another thing stupid that SA do.
Johns dog has an official time against his form which now will say he came 42 lengths last. In Vic, the dog would have FELL next to its form.
Yes, that makes a difference to an owner.

Jamie - on this and your earlier post.

No good shooting the messenger - take it up with GRSA.

As for race records - you are dead right, it is ridiculous that fallers are not properly designated. That also happened in a major distance race at CANN with 4 starters, one of which fell. They gave it a 100L margin and 4th place, presumably because they wanted a result for the First Four.

However, all results in Ozchase - and therefore in the permanent career records - are subject to error, especially for sectionals. They have no apparent integrity checks and Tasmania is the worst offender, closely followed by NSWGBOTA/WPK. Vic/Fasttrack is usually OK, except for one thing. A dog euthanased after a race is routinely entered in the books as "retired". Every one of them.

Bearing in mind the shenannigans that went on at Wenty (see McHugh Commission) about injuries, it is appropriate that all record keeping be removed from the control of individual state authorities and put in the hands of an independent group - roughly similar to the Stud Book.

That would also avoid the stupidity of both Watchdog and Ozchase pricing upcoming races on the basis of a 130% book. Who needs that?





Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

27 Jan 2019 21:49


 (1)
 (2)


Bruce, I have emailed GRSA a few times over the years with my personal concerns on a few issues. I must give them credit for at least replying, something GRV are a bit slow on.
But they have their own agenda and are clearly not interested in the views of trainers.
One example would be the state of the Angle Park surface. I know there were complaints from several trainers last year. The reply from GRSA was that the track curator had 20 years experience and he knows what he is doing. Dont worry about the trainers, some who have 40 years experience.
So taking up the issue with GRSA is pointless, much like me appealing my disqualification. I knew exactly where that was going.
So thats why I put my concerns on here Bruce. Not because I haven't tried the direct approach, but because the direct approach has been consistently dismissed.
Maybe one of the GRSA board directors who reads these posts will agree with me, and seemingly everyone else who has posted, and make it an issue.
At the core of the argument is that punters need to see replays.



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

27 Jan 2019 22:52


 (0)
 (0)


Jamie.

I can't comment on your DQ but I can say that SA and WA are the only mobs that reply to my queries. Sometimes we agree, sometimes not. Such is life.

But this is why I regularly call for the establishment of an overall National Commission - ie independent of but largely responsible for what goes on in individual states.

The difficulty is that the only people who could sponsor that shift are the individual states themselves. Very circular!

Your indirect appeal to a board member is unlikely to succeed as they are not normally competent technically and will be bound to refer it back to the management.

In theory, one or more of the state Racing Ministers, or the Racing Ministers Council, could stir the pot but they invariably refer the argument back to the local authority and end up doing nothing.

They are influenced by massive newspaper headlines (eg live baiting) but even then they seldom act in the long term interests of the industry and tend to run off at tangents - one step forward and two back. Nevertheless, it is the only practicable target area for reform and renewal of the industry (potentially helped by a Treasurer who can react to ideas that promise greater tax returns. and/or consumer benefits. A good example was Gareth Evans and the deregulation of airlines).

Participant bodies are largely ineffective (in NSW they are part of the problem). Consultative groups seem barely to cut through the surface (there is one in SA - did it address your APK surface problem?).

Like the banks or Aged homes, only a Royal Commission is likely to obtain the truth - that will not happen either. (We had one in NSW and look how far that got us!!!. They cooked the terms of reference).

Continued agitation for change - as has occurred in minor ways in Vic and Qld by the respective GBOTAs - is the only outlet available. But first get your story right. And get the public onside.

Lastly, the interests of trainers are all very well but remember they are just one of many groups who have a stake in the industry.





Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

27 Jan 2019 23:38


 (1)
 (0)


Bruce, many people have called for many different approaches.
For me, I called for a greyhound trainers association, separate from a combined owners breeders trainers group, which were established in a time when most people bred, owned and trained their own animals. My theory was based on the AFL approach of a players association, a coaches association and an umpires association. All separate groups making their own voices heard. GRV and the other states have an approach where they email participants for feedback, this means that a registered owner who has a 10% share in one dog, can give as much feedback to the authorities as a professional trainer with a team of 30 dogs. Its mind blowing.
As for the state approved industry consultation groups, that model is nothing more than puppetry.
Yes, trainers are just one of many groups in the industry. However when it comes to track surfaces, I think the trainers views should be heard.

As for massive newspaper headlines, the one you mentioned was 4 years ago. Since then, every state has done everything they possibly can to protect the sport. A lot of those things were necessary, getting rid of the lowlifes was necessary, but some of their programs have gone too far to the other side, like removing a video replay because a dog fell over.

And contrary to your continued belief, the 'public' love greyhound racing. A very very small minority hate it.



John Little
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 56
Dogs 5 / Races 0

28 Jan 2019 00:29


 (1)
 (0)


Thanks for that Jamie


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

28 Jan 2019 04:06


 (2)
 (0)


Jamie,

Broadly, I buy most of that. I would also hope that GRSA reverses its video decision in time. I don't like censorship which is why I objected myself to GRSA.

Your last sentence is a problem. Yes, the public that are involved or can reach out and touch the greyhound all love it. Certainly GAP helps there. But these are the minority.

The reason why Baird thought he could shut down the industry was because he assumed correctly that the majority opposed greyhound racing or, at worst, were neutral. Mountains of words and pictures from antis and Greens reinforced that thinking.

In the end, it was not a love of greyhounds that reversed that decision. It was jointly the big media - Jones, Hadley etc - dumping on him for such a high handed action, and the general horror from any and all levels at a government having the gall to shut down any industry as a matter of principle.

You see, Baird and Grant clearly showed they had no love whatever for the dog or the industry - quite the opposite. Many people think the same way. They shrink back and shudder whenever you talk or propose something to do with greyhound racing, any racing, any gambling. It's partly a historical situation and partly a matter of gross abuses. But it's a wide spectrum and the blokes at the track or in the TAB are just a tiny portion of that group.

The Greens and all the antis did not come out of cracks in the ground - they are numerous, noisy and will make mountains out of molehills to get their point across. They will also have pets. I have talked to these guys at their demos and there is no way in the world you can convince them of their illogical thinking or the blatant errors and lies in their statements or banners and signs.

But, irrespective of all the lowlifes and crooks, the industry must - repeat must - still engage in putting across the good message to all and sundry. It's just good business practice. Unfortunately we do not do nearly enough of it.



posts 16