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tral new trackpage  1 2 3 

Robert Conway
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 213
Dogs 2 / Races 0

10 May 2019 14:53


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I viewed the drawings of the new track for tral. and it is brilliant design.
Fully support the idea.
Safety seems to be the key factor in the design.
Hope they release this design to the public soon as silence the people who are canning only for a personal grudge.
BUILD IT



Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4987
Dogs 1 / Races 1

10 May 2019 22:23


 (6)
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robert conway wrote:

I viewed the drawings of the new track for tral. and it is brilliant design.
Fully support the idea.
Safety seems to be the key factor in the design.
Hope they release this design to the public soon as silence the people who are canning only for a personal grudge.
BUILD IT


Nothing to do with a personal Grudge .Robert
The track was a brand new track so what went wrong then ..
It's our money being wasted not the GRVs

Good on you for being able to see the new plans that's great but what about the GRV release this info for all of its Members ..
So we make our own minds up

Traralgons new track was a joke so u cannot sit back and take pot shots now AT PEOPLE because the damage was already done long ago in fact the President of the club used to defend the shit hole on here when clearly the track was worse than the Geelong White Elephant ..

Like always the GRV do what they want regardless what any Member says and Robert you can blow smoke up there ass all you want but why should we allow a dictatorship to rule our Industry ...
Robert you made the GRV bull ring at Sale at a huge cost you were paid so well for a basic design i could of built it for half the price and done a better job ...i think the bull ring was a Joke as well

Cheers


Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7055
Dogs 26 / Races 9

11 May 2019 02:12


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i think robert forgot to say,, they are actually replacing a brand new track that was built there not too long ago , and it was a Sh*t hole ,

you would assume they have learnt something from the last debacle,

i wonder how much GRV have wasted , over the tears
remember the new track at Shepperton , with its asphalt/foam surface , which had to be dug up and replaced after a few weeks use



Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4987
Dogs 1 / Races 1

11 May 2019 03:12


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Michael Barry wrote:

i think robert forgot to say,, they are actually replacing a brand new track that was built there not too long ago , and it was a Sh*t hole ,

you would assume they have learnt something from the last debacle,

i wonder how much GRV have wasted , over the tears
remember the new track at Shepperton , with its asphalt/foam surface , which had to be dug up and replaced after a few weeks use


100 hundred mill plus I think Mick spent on Geelong Traralgon shepperton ...Three of the worst tracks to race on to keep dogs sound
IMO
Traralgon should not be built
We need more straight tracks not circle tracks ...
If we are going down the path of welfare then we must address our tracks Banking on the first and home turns.
Here is a fantastic link it
Track design . CLICK HERE Cranbourne track has stood the test of time i wonder why ....Hundreds of trials a week take place there



Geoff Collins
(Verified User)
Posts 1924
Dogs 231 / Races 30

11 May 2019 03:17


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Question I have to ask about Traralgon is to do with the TWO catching pens. Dogs run up the straight into a pen then next week they run past that pen into the circle part of the track and into the other pen. Why not have the one pen and move the boxes accordingly ?


Robert Hill
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 27
Dogs 1 / Races 0

11 May 2019 04:21


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kevin, the click here link you posted on track design I thought was brilliant because it was based on physics for the design principles.
You would like to think that all tracks renovated or built would use this practice (ie calculated physics). I was wondering if the spiral used was of fibonacci ratio. Also why not make the catching pen gates longer so when closed they become an extension of the running rail and not a barrier to canon into, some tracks pens are more acute then others


Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 633
Dogs 1 / Races 1

11 May 2019 05:13


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Robert Hill wrote:

kevin, the click here link you posted on track design I thought was brilliant because it was based on physics for the design principles.
You would like to think that all tracks renovated or built would use this practice (ie calculated physics). I was wondering if the spiral used was of fibonacci ratio. Also why not make the catching pen gates longer so when closed they become an extension of the running rail and not a barrier to canon into, some tracks pens are more acute then others


I WONDER IF ANY OF THE OLDER TRAINERS REMEMBER THE WARRNAMBOOL AND GEELONG TRANSITIONAL TURN TRACKS. THEY ARE NOT THERE NOW, TURNS OUT THEY DID NOT WORK EITHER AND HERE WE GO AGAIN!

WHAT ABOUT THE BRILLIANT SILENT LURE AT SANDOWN WHERE THEY PUT IN A RECORDING OF THE LURE NOISE OR WHEN THEY PUT OIL INTO THE TRACK TO STOP KICKBACK AND DOGS EYES WERE BEING INFECTED OR THE CLAY THEY PUT INTO THE TRACK WHERE ALL THE DOGS COME BACK ORANGE.

IT SEEMS GREYHOUND ADMINISTRATORS DO NOT LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES THEY SIMPLY COMPOUND THEM AND THEN CALL TRAINERS WINGERS WHEN THEY SPEAK UP.

I RACED THROUGH ALL THOSE TIMES, ABSOLUTE JOKE. AND YES ALL THIS IN BOLD BECAUSE I AM SAYING IT LOUD!

FOOT NOTE: THERE HAS ALREADY BEEN EXPERIENCED PEOPLE MEET WITH GRV TO POINT OUT THE DANGERS OF THIS NEW TRARALGON VENTURE, MAYBE A FEW MORE OLD HANDS NEED TO GET IN THERE QUICK SMART BEFORE ANOTHER 10MIL GOES DOWN THE GURGULAR.





Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4987
Dogs 1 / Races 1

11 May 2019 05:56


 (0)
 (0)


Robert Hill wrote:

kevin, the click here link you posted on track design I thought was brilliant because it was based on physics for the design principles.
You would like to think that all tracks renovated or built would use this practice (ie calculated physics). I was wondering if the spiral used was of fibonacci ratio. Also why not make the catching pen gates longer so when closed they become an extension of the running rail and not a barrier to canon into, some tracks pens are more acute then others


Robert Hill ..I agree there is a simple solution based solely of physics..



Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4987
Dogs 1 / Races 1

11 May 2019 06:02


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charles w mizzi wrote:

Robert Hill wrote:

kevin, the click here link you posted on track design I thought was brilliant because it was based on physics for the design principles.
You would like to think that all tracks renovated or built would use this practice (ie calculated physics). I was wondering if the spiral used was of fibonacci ratio. Also why not make the catching pen gates longer so when closed they become an extension of the running rail and not a barrier to canon into, some tracks pens are more acute then others


I WONDER IF ANY OF THE OLDER TRAINERS REMEMBER THE WARRNAMBOOL AND GEELONG TRANSITIONAL TURN TRACKS. THEY ARE NOT THERE NOW, TURNS OUT THEY DID NOT WORK EITHER AND HERE WE GO AGAIN!

WHAT ABOUT THE BRILLIANT SILENT LURE AT SANDOWN WHERE THEY PUT IN A RECORDING OF THE LURE NOISE OR WHEN THEY PUT OIL INTO THE TRACK TO STOP KICKBACK AND DOGS EYES WERE BEING INFECTED OR THE CLAY THEY PUT INTO THE TRACK WHERE ALL THE DOGS COME BACK ORANGE.

IT SEEMS GREYHOUND ADMINISTRATORS DO NOT LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES THEY SIMPLY COMPOUND THEM AND THEN CALL TRAINERS WINGERS WHEN THEY SPEAK UP.

I RACED THROUGH ALL THOSE TIMES, ABSOLUTE JOKE. AND YES ALL THIS IN BOLD BECAUSE I AM SAYING IT LOUD!

FOOT NOTE: THERE HAS ALREADY BEEN EXPERIENCED PEOPLE MEET WITH GRV TO POINT OUT THE DANGERS OF THIS NEW TRARALGON VENTURE, MAYBE A FEW MORE OLD HANDS NEED TO GET IN THERE QUICK SMART BEFORE ANOTHER 10MIL GOES DOWN THE GURGULAR.


Charles we are not going forward we are going backward ..

Traralgon seems to be a bit of thorn in their side...

Save the 10 mil buy some land build a straight track ...600 metres long ...have 4 different distances

Build it and they will come




Robert Conway
Australia
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Posts 213
Dogs 2 / Races 0

11 May 2019 08:50


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the new track is what is mentioned. it is a 450 mt straight coming into a curve the size of any trotting track corner and finish at the present finish post in to normal catching pen.
they want to run straight races as well finish into a catching pen around the finish line as geoff said and i think after a few trials this may have to be revued



Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4987
Dogs 1 / Races 1

11 May 2019 10:25


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robert conway wrote:

the new track is what is mentioned. it is a 450 mt straight coming into a curve the size of any trotting track corner and finish at the present finish post in to normal catching pen.
they want to run straight races as well finish into a catching pen around the finish line as geoff said and i think after a few trials this may have to be revued


Two catching pens ...
Why do the GRV seem to think they need to always reinvent the wheel ...

Who comes up with these ideas ...

Millions and millions has already been waisted and with the reduction of dogs being breed
Is this really feasible in the current climate to be building new tracks when the tracks we do have are being so underutilised .

450 straight with a huge bend some weeks they race into one catching pen the next they run on a bend into a different catching pen ..

Sounds perfectly logical ...doh doh doh a Homer moment





Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2129
Dogs 11 / Races 9

11 May 2019 11:43


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Just re-open Wang.

LOL

Rich.


Bruce Teague
Australia
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Posts 1342
Dogs 0 / Races 0

12 May 2019 00:39


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Leaving aside the stupid placement of some boxes and the drainage, there was not a lot wrong with the Traralgon design that could not have been fixed with a few tweaks.

Michael - Shepparton was specifically listed as an experiment using synthetic material. It failed (due heat problems) but I can't criticise GRV (Stephens) for trying.

Cranbourne - for ever and a day the first and home turns have been sub-par. Many dogs can't handle the turn and get thrown off. NB this is why you often see runners from 7 and 8 whizzing around to the lead - also reflected in winning box numbers.

The German's point about turn radii was evaluated specifically by Adam Wallish but I am not sure where it went after that. Why not ask him?

Wang - the turn into the home straight did not suit many dogs. They ran out.

The bigger question posed is straight v circle. I think some straight track racing is absolutely vital for a variety of reasons. Too much is not for two specific reasons ... (a) it becomes boring and (b) it starts to bias breeding in favour of big/strong types and disadvantages dogs at the nippy/railer end of the spectrum. A decent circle embracing straights and turns is a good test of a greyhound and entertaining to watch.

Moreover, that would be two wrongs trying to make a right. Why not get the circle designs sorted out - ie stop letting amateurs design tracks. Sensibly, the industry would set up a National Engineering unit of some sort to review/design/build/upgrade all tracks instead of relying on half-baked opinions of authority and club employees.

Paul Newson (ex-NSW) had some faults but he did two good things - he immediately recognised where the problems were and so he set up independent units to look into live baiting (WDA) and track design (UTS). In the entire history of greyhound racing nobody has ever done that. (The industry hates outsiders). They all relied on the "we know best" syndrome when plainly they do not - as evidenced by all the comments on this thread.

UTS cannot do the whole job as they are not knowledgeable about greyhounds or about surface peculiarities. But they can analyse evidence and develop some reliable scientific principles to follow. That's why you need a composite group to take charge.

Do that and you might even get some punters to return to the fold.



Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7055
Dogs 26 / Races 9

12 May 2019 01:05


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Bruce Teague wrote:

Michael - Shepparton was specifically listed as an experiment using synthetic material. It failed (due heat problems) but I can't criticise GRV (Stephens) for trying.

it also failed due to the cold it set like concrete , in heat it melted like tar and the foam/sponge in it stuck to the dogs ,

if you were using your own money , you would have trialed it at a small trial track , these people dont use their own money so it matters little , what is wasted , and seem to be accountable to no one ,

there is simply no need for a second new track at traralgon , the area is well served with existing tracks ,
as the joint was closed half the time anyway


Robert Conway
Australia
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Posts 213
Dogs 2 / Races 0

12 May 2019 01:39


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hi guys the original track had problems with the ground under it 'i think we need to move away from that.
not our cost gov. is putting up the money for the new track



Kevin Wright
Australia
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Posts 4987
Dogs 1 / Races 1

12 May 2019 02:02


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robert conway wrote:

hi guys the original track had problems with the ground under it 'i think we need to move away from that.
not our cost gov. is putting up the money for the new track


The very first thing you do when building a road or building a house or building ...The foundations..

If done right like they do with roads highway freeways then there should never be a problem with drainage its simple to solve isolate and fix ...
The problem with Traralgon is that now it is not needed
it should not be built ...

Turn it into a Canine park who cares ...

Boosting egos wasting funds does not serve any purpose TRARALGON SHOULD BE KILLED OFF ....Sale Warragul Cranbourne Healesville Geelong Warrnambool bendigo Ballarat Shepperton Horsham Sandown and The Meadows ....

12 Tracks all being used once or twice a week ...This is stupid
Why not increase race meetings before we build more tracks




Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7055
Dogs 26 / Races 9

12 May 2019 03:05


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robert conway wrote:

hi guys the original track had problems with the ground under it 'i think we need to move away from that.
not our cost gov. is putting up the money for the new track


Remember we as Tax payers fund the Government, no matter how you spin it the Sh*t hole is closed just leave it like that


Charles W Mizzi
Australia
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Posts 633
Dogs 1 / Races 1

12 May 2019 04:11


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My take on any so called track design.

I visited Florida in 1995 and went to the Hollywood Park Greyhound track. Had a bit of a giggle about the process compared to the Aussie way. Remembering this was 25 years ago!

They were running morning, afternoon and evening 10 race programs on a daily basis.I did notice the track surfaces were deep. We know the longevity of American dogs on the track and my theory is this that the slow tracks and that the dogs mainly race at one home track eliminates the risk of injury.

Track design is getting a lot of attention, we have had transitional turn tracks and everything in-between but my view is the obsession with speed(fast tracks) and the fact every track is different, cambers, box positions etc will be impossible to fix because greyhounds are not adjustable. In horse and harness racing they at least will work their horses the opposite way as to strengthen both sides of the body.

I use race cars as an example. All the racing tracks are different and require adjustment which is why qualifying exists and obviously we do not have that option. Every track, every first turn, every camber is different. Slow the tracks down and you lesson the chance of injury. This will never be solved with welfare being the driving force because fast and poorly prepared tracks will create the opportunity for injury.

If GRV were fairdinkum and had knowledge which they don't the only option is not track design but slowing the surface and eliminating the soft spot holes in the track that causes hock and back muscle injuries. I always thought the American racing muzzles were silly but now I understand the front is covered to handle the kickback of deep tracks.

Millions have already been spent to no avail and of course the current crop of GRV intelligenceia have no idea. I am not a part of the industry any longer but I still care about participant and animal welfare. I have stories of my own dogs breaking down badly on poorly prepared tracks and I see this latest GRV grandstanding as a way of justifying their existence.

On a personal note, Traralgon was spruked to be like Richmond and never was. I lost a bitch there with 2 broken legs on the first turn on the 300, that's where participant welfare comes in. Never hear to much of that from GRV.



Steven Martin
Australia
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Posts 7208
Dogs 173 / Races 66

12 May 2019 10:46


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Geoff Collins wrote:

Question I have to ask about Traralgon is to do with the TWO catching pens. Dogs run up the straight into a pen then next week they run past that pen into the circle part of the track and into the other pen. Why not have the one pen and move the boxes accordingly ?


Exactly. Bad habits will eventuate with 2 different finishing scenarios on the same track Geoff.
The thing with greyhounds is THEY REMEMBER. Their not stupid like this idea.
People that have had greyhounds for 30 / 40 years are not whingers. They are experienced and are worth consulting before costly mistakes are made.


Michael Barry
Australia
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Posts 7055
Dogs 26 / Races 9

12 May 2019 11:20


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id say its almost impossible to build the perfect circle/oval track
when you are also trying to use multiple starting distances/points ,

cambers/ spirals/transitions etc will be flawed at some points on the track ,

a straight track is the only way you can have multiple starting distances , and of course it eliminates these stupid bend starts that they seem to have in every state

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